Aasimar
Atheist
So, any answer? What specific point is a baby a baby? Is it a sperm? An Egg? Upon meeting? 4th cellular division? Which point?
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No Sin?
- Thread starter Sonic247
- Start date
So, any answer? What specific point is a baby a baby? Is it a sperm? An Egg? Upon meeting? 4th cellular division? Which point?
crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
The concept of "sin" is definitely a man-made concept and varies from culture to culture and religion to religion. In practicality, it is man's laws that control what "sin" is and what consequences may ensue if the laws are broken. Using "guilt" for having commited some sin as a means of religious control is a common theme among some religions.
Smoke
Done here.
The sperm and the egg are components of a potential human, so any form of contraception is murder. That's why Susan Orr, the woman George W. Bush appointed this October to head up the federal government's contraception programs, has opposed requiring health insurance providers to pay for contraception:
Its not about health care. Its about making everyone collaborators with the culture of death.
However, the Vatican stops short of saying that contraception is actually murder, merely calling it intrinsically evil. Susan, having worked for Pat Robertson's Regent University and James Dobson's Family Research Council, is in a position to be more Christian than the Pope.
Aasimar
Atheist
Wow, that's absolutely ridiculous, I don't know another way to say it.
tomspug
Absorbant
The Christian God is an awesome God.
More like your concept of a Christian God is sick.
Last time I checked, Christian's believed that God was omnibenevolent, so I'm sorry if you want to figure everything out dogmatically. But I'm not concerned with the salvation of babies who never got a chance to live. I'm more concerned about THE FACT THAT THEY NEVER GOT A CHANCE TO LIVE!
Smoke
Done here.
Why? This present life is just temporary, so how can it possibly be as important as eternal life?
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Perhaps this will help him get started:
From Stedmans Medical Dictionary
Stedman's Medical Dictionaries
Stedman's Medical Dictionaries
fetus
embryo
baby
infant
- The unborn young of a viviparous animal following the embryonic period.
- [NA] In humans, the product of conception from the end of the eighth week to the moment of birth.
embryo
- An organism in the early stages of development.
- In humans, the developing organism from conception until approximately the end of the second month; developmental stages from this time to birth are commonly designated as fetal.
- A primordial plant within a seed.
baby
An infant, a newborn child
infant
A child younger than 1 year of age; more specifically, a newborn baby
I caused the action to occur in the first place.
Look from your prospective if I didn't have free will I would be doing as you do as it would be gods will.
It is my will to get as far away as I can from the god concept as possible and live in peace harmony and rationality so much so that I had to move to the other side of the planet.
Why is it that you think that because you don't believe in God that you have free will?
Mr. Peanut
Active Member
From the moment of conception, 46 chromosomes with 30,000 genes combine to determine all your physical characteristics; sex, facial features, body type, colour of hair, eyes and skin. Even more amazingly, intelligence and personality--the way you think and feel--were already in place within your genetic code. At the moment of conception you were essentually and uniquely you! Hear from the experts:
When Does Life Begin?
Many internationally-known geneticists and biologists have testified that human life begins at conception. In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the very question: When does human life begin? Following are testimonies from two of the doctors who testified:1. Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman of the Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, said: "By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."
2. Dr. McCarthy de Mere, a medical doctor and law professor at the University of Tennessee, testified: "The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception."
"The Father of Modern Genetics" Testifies
Dr. Jerome Lejeune, known as "The Father of Modern Genetics," also testified that human life begins at conception before the Louisiana Legislature's House Committee on the Administration of Criminal Justice on June 7, 1990. Dr. Lejeune explained that within three to seven days after fertilization we can determine if the new human being is a boy or a girl. "At no time," Dr. Lejeune said, "is the human being a blob of protoplasm. As far as your nature is concerned, I see no difference between the early person that you were at conception and the late person which you are now. You were, and are, a human being."
Dr. Lejeune also pointed out that each human being is unique -- different from the mother -- from the moment of conception. He said, "Recent discoveries by Dr. Alec Jeffreys of England demonstrate that this information [on the DNA molecule] is stored by a system of bar codes not unlike those found on products at the supermarket...it's not any longer a theory that each of us is unique."
Dr. Jerome Lejeune died on April 3, 1994. Dr. Lejeune of Paris, France was a medical doctor, a Doctor of Science and a professor of Fundamental Genetics for over twenty years. Dr. Lejeune discovered the genetic cause of Down Syndrome, receiving the Kennedy Prize for the discovery and, in addition, received the Memorial Allen Award Medal, the world's highest award for work in the field of Genetics. He practiced his profession at the Hôpital des Enfants Malades (Sick Children's Hospital) in Paris. Dr. Lejeune was a member of the American Academy of the Arts and Science, a member of the Royal Society of Medicine in London, The Royal Society of Science in Stockholm, the Science Academy in Italy and Argentina, The Pontifical Academy of Science and The Academy of Medicine in France.
Tiny Human Feet (10 weeks after conception)
Human at 8 Weeks
From: Facts of Fetal Development
Or (in another context) the parents.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
actually the "father of modern Genetics" is Gregor Mendel.
wa:do
wa:do
tomspug
Absorbant
Christians may believe in life after death, but I don't see how that devalues life before death. If life wasn't important before death, what would be the purpose of life at all?
That's why Christians believe that creation (life) glorifies God simply in its existence, so every life is precious.
That's why Christians believe that creation (life) glorifies God simply in its existence, so every life is precious.
Then why did God invent miscarriage or allow for it. God could have designed the human body so there was no such thing. So either God doesn't care if embryos die or God wasn't powerful enough to design humans correcly.
Smoke
Done here.
But earthly life must pale in significance compared to eternal life.
Supposedly, about half of all fertilized eggs spontaneously abort without implanting. Add to that all the tubal pregnancies, later miscarriages and abortions, and figure in all those who reach the age of seven or so and are eternally damned for not guessing the right religion, and we can conclude that heaven is populated chiefly by the souls of zygotes, embryos, and fetuses. If that's not the way God wants it, I'm sure he could have arranged it otherwise.
tomspug
Absorbant
I'm not sure if I'm willing to discuss that in this topic. It's another 'why do bad things happen' question. I choose to believe that life is precious, regardless of how it pales in comparison to 'life after death'. If life wasn't important than Christians should just kill themselves after they're 'saved' so they'll get to heaven quicker.
I think the major argument shouldn't be about the nature of birth, but about man's role in it. Why should man decide who is born and who is not?
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Because it is man (meaning humankind) who is taking care of them.
God is somewhat absent when it comes to paying the bills, providing clothing, providing food, etc.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Thank you for furthering my point.