No more babies being delivered at NY hospital

[Alienistic]

The hypocrisy is galling.

Indeed, check yourself. You are acting as if you care about this particular hospital staff who has done nothing but deliver children, treat patients without bias for a long time before the vaccine and after the vaccine but when they don’t want a mandate..... all of a sudden they are some great and stupid threat making situations worse.

Same goes for @Wildswanderer , @Unveiled Artist , @Alienistic and all the other anti-vaxxer, anti-masker, or anti-lockdown people trying to spin this story into some "vaccine mandates are bad" message. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

If willing, learn the difference between anti-vaxxer, unvaccinated, and those not wanting mandates. Also learn to not make false judgements and accusations on people. This can happen when emotions are high.

 

[PureX]

If there were ever an instance where a mandate were necessary, it would be something like stopping a pandemic. And if there were ever a time for citizens to step up and take responsibility for minding each other's safety, it's in the face of a pandemic. It's sad to think there are so many among us that are so selfish and self-obsessed that they can't even recognize this.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Staying 6 feet away is actually impossible if you go to the store, post office or a restaurant. If you want to avoid all virus', you have to avoid people, period. What is hard to understand about that? That piece of cloth isn't going to save you.
Saw a woman on the bike trail, out in the open air, not close to anyone but her husband, with a hanky over her face. Those people make me want to cry. They have bought into the comply at all costs, hook, line, and sinker. At that point, I have to think it's just blind compliance, devoid of any reason.

You still didn't address the point.

It's not impossible, I actually do it all the time. Our grocery stores, restaurants, etc. have set themselves up in such a way that everyone is socially distanced which sometimes involves limiting the numbe rof customers in stores at a time. My office has managed to socially distance as well. It's really not that hard.

How do you know that woman on the trail wasn't immunocompromised? Or was fighting cancer? I saw a video where a cancer patient came out of the hospital only to be harassed by a bunch of anti-masker jerks who were taunting her and trying to pull her mask off - an action that could have potentially killed her. When they were told that the woman has cancer, do you think they let up, as decent humans would do? Nope, they didn't. Those are the people who **** me off.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about red flag laws that encourage people to rat on their neighbors.

Like the new "anti-abortion" law in Texas?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I still don't see how you know who infected who. At best, you are guessing.
So, if you were all vaccinated, I would say your vaccinations were pretty useless.
And you could have spread it just as easily as anyone.

It's called "contact tracing" and everyone's been doing it for like the last year and a half now.
COVID-19 and Your Health

 

[Revoltingest]

Anti-vax nurses....such an odd animal.
Their own organization supports Covid vaxing.
ANA Supports Mandated COVID-19 Vaccinations for Nurses and All Health Care Professionals

Moreover....
Vaccines/Nurses
Excerpted...
Nurses give a lot of vaccines. But they also need vaccines! By the nature of their work, nurses come into contact with many infectious diseases, the most notable of which is influenza. Vaccination is an important way to stay protected from contracting a disease at work.

But vaccination can also protect the nurse's patients and family. While at work, a nurse may unknowingly pass a disease on to the patient, especially when critically ill or the most vulnerable, such as newborns. In addition, if a nurse contracts an illness from work, he or she can pass it on to her family members.

Don't risk it - be vaccinated. Being vaccinated against all diseases, from measles to influenza to whooping cough, can prevent the transmission of disease and protect nurses, their patients, and their families!

Nurses have a responsibility to be up-to-date on recommended routine vaccines. An immunization promotes optimal health and protects patients and the community from vaccine preventable diseases. Nurses work in environments where they are exposed to many communicable diseases and infections, so it's especially important to have the following vaccines:

• Seasonal Influenza - get your influenza vaccine every fall!
• Tetanus, Diphtheria, and Pertussis (Tdap) - especially for nurses working with newborn or compromised infants
• Measles, Mumps, and Rubella
• Hepatitis B
• Varicella
• Meningococcal - CDC recommends one dose if you are often exposed to isolates of N. meningitidis

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, there's no catch 22.

Vaccines are the most important measure to slow or stop the pandemic. They're necessary, and low vaccination rates are allowing the pandemic to kill countless people needlessly.

Vaccine mandates are catch 22 not vaccines

You missed the "or," apparently.

It's all your opinion. I'd be dead without science. So all the anti mask and vax things* are difference in opinion. After telling you guys with direct statements to the contrary, what you say aren't fact.

Edit.
Which makes me wonder if my giving blunt statements I'm not against vaccines isn't clear all the information on television that leans towards your biases may be just as much. Facts should stand alone and if they are lies support this by evidence.

 

[Alienistic]

If there were ever an instance where a mandate were necessary, it would be something like stopping a pandemic. And if there were ever a time for citizens to step up and take responsibility for minding each other's safety, it's in the face of a pandemic. It's sad to think there are so many among us that are so selfish and self-obsessed that they can't even recognize this.

Is the solution condemning, shaming, guilting others into this?

Pretty much the same everywhere, if someone has yet to be vaccinated, don’t wish it to be mandated on everyone....they are labeled as a self obsessed, selfish, terrible human being, and all other derogatory names and words.

I’m no anti-vaxer, or anti-mask.... I simply myself wish not to condemn, shame, or guilt anyone, or try to divide and pin common folk against common folk. This to me is the self obsessed or selfish approach. There are far better solutions.

I appreciate all of the work all vaccinated and unvaccinated medical staff members have been doing without bias in treating others.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I get everything up to "misled."

How does choosing not to unvaccinated mean someone is misled?

The two don't inherently relate to each other.

Someone choosing to vaccinate could have been misled.

We could have all been misled-who knows.

How do you know otherwise?

As with many of the issues being discussed here, they cannot be discussed singularly, they must be discussed as statistics in large populations. Yes, there might be an individual or a few who choose not to vaccinate because they have expert knowledge that they have a medical exemption from getting vaccinated. But statistically, all 7.7 billion of us need the vaccine to prevent the severe/life-threatening infection. Statistically all of humanity is much much better off getting the vaccine than avoiding it.
As for “misled”: It is a simple matter of looking at the statistics in those areas that listen to Fox News, and Donald Trump, and each other, in their own right wing bubble as their source of information on the vaccine. Where ever they have been misled by poor information and vaccinated yet anti-VAX in their speech politicians these multi million person segments of the population are choosing to not vaccinate as much as in those areas where the right wing bubble of media has less influence.

Here we can see that Red states have a lower percentage of the population vaccinated.
An inverse of this map shows where the ICU beds are filled up, and where people are dying.

Don’t cherry-pick your data. Don’t tell me about “oh. Here’s a story about this guy who….” This is not about the few or the one, it is about the many.
It doesn’t just read “Unum” : No. I it reads “ “E pluribus unum”

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Vaccine mandates are catch 22 not vaccines

Vaccine mandates are how we either get people vaccinated or stop anti-vaxxers from killing people.

It's all your opinion. I'd be dead without science. So all the anti mask and vax things* are difference in opinion. After telling you guys with direct statements to the contrary, it's not a fact.

You certainly aren't the first anti-vaxxer to claim that you aren't an anti-vaxxer.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As with many of the issues being discussed here, they cannot be discussed singularly, they must be discussed as statistics in large populations. Yes, there might be an individual or a few who choose not to vaccinate because they have expert knowledge that they have a medical exemption from getting vaccinated. But statistically, all 7.7 billion of us need the vaccine to prevent the severe/life-threatening infection. Statistically all of humanity is much much better off getting the vaccine than avoiding it.
As for “misled”: It is a simple matter of looking at the statistics in those areas that listen to Fox News, and Donald Trump, and each other, in their own right wing bubble as their source of information on the vaccine. Where ever they have been misled by poor information and vaccinated yet anti-VAX in their speech politicians these multi million person segments of the population are choosing to not vaccinate as much as in those areas where the right wing bubble of media has less influence.

Here we can see that Red states have a lower percentage of the population vaccinated.
An inverse of this map shows where the ICU beds are filled up, and where people are dying.

Don’t cherry-pick your data. Don’t tell me about “oh. Here’s a story about this guy who….” This is not about the few or the one, it is about the many.
It doesn’t just read “Unum” : No. I it reads “ “E pluribus unum”

What of those who choose to vaccinate?

Why can't they not be misled?

(Speaking of US)

 

[Daemon Sophic]

What of those who choose to vaccinate?

Why can't they not be misled?

(Speaking of US)

Because the statistics clearly show that the vaccinated are avoiding the nastiest end of this disease, they are spreading it much less too (yes, rare breakthroughs happen, but statistically they are rare, and even when they happen to the weak and elderly, they get a much weaker infection with a much higher survival rate).
Person A is told - don’t vaccinate so that you and yours will be safer. They don’t. And. They die.
Person B is told - get everyone vaccinated and you and yours will be safer. They do. And. They live.
Question: Which of those people was misled?

Right wing media is telling people to not get vaccinate. Right wing politicians (most of whom are vaccinated) are telling their constituents to not get vaccinated. Right wing citizens are dying from COVID at a much higher rate than left wingers.
Can you even Math bro?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is the solution condemning, shaming, guilting others into this?

It couldn't hurt.

Pretty much the same everywhere, if someone has yet to be vaccinated, don’t wish it to be mandated on everyone....they are labeled as a self obsessed, selfish, terrible human being, and all other derogatory names and words.

Yes: people doing awful things often find it uncomfortable to have a mirror held up to them.

I’m no anti-vaxer, or anti-mask.... I simply myself wish not to condemn, shame, or guilt anyone, or try to divide and pin common folk against common folk. This to me is the self obsessed or selfish approach. There are far better solutions.

I appreciate all of the work all vaccinated and unvaccinated medical staff members have been doing without bias in treating others.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Anyone who can't be bothered to do as simple and small an act as getting vaccinated to help stop everything from burnout to death of medical professionals is someone who has demostrated through their actions that they don't appreciate these people and what they do.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Vaccine mandates are how we either get people vaccinated or stop anti-vaxxers from killing people.

Yes. My point is mandates there's a catch 22 affect. Short term solutions that leads to long term problems.

You think all mandates etc have no consequences?

Risk assessment

You certainly aren't the first anti-vaxxer to claim that you aren't an anti-vaxxer.

Think about it yourself for a minute not what others say.

Where have I said I was against vaccines? (As provaxers say against science)

Step away from political issues like anti/pro and all that mess.

If you make a claim you have to support it. Opinions and beliefs don't make a difference without evidence. (Not others')

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because the statistics clearly show that the vaccinated are avoiding the nastiest end of this disease, they are spreading it much less too (yes, rare breakthroughs happen, but statistically they are rare, and even when they happen to the weak and elderly, they get a much weaker infection with a much higher survival rate).

My question though is why can't vaccinated people be misled?

Just because they feel they made the right decision doesn't mean they arrived there logically.


If you apply it to one side you have to the other

 

[Revoltingest]

Is the solution condemning, shaming, guilting others into this?

When the law is inadequate to the task, social pressure
can be useful. For some, advocacy is about reasoned
arguments with information. Others choose shaming.
We can only hope that both will work.

We should note also that anti-vaxers & semi-anti-vaxers
aren't above shaming & insulting pro-vaxers. Imagine
that....getting nasty in pursuit of a wrongful cause.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes. My point is mandates there's a catch 22 affect. Short term solutions that leads to long term problems.

You think all mandates etc have no consequences?

Risk assessment

Vaccine mandates are the best option available. Those who are still opposed to vaccinating themselves can figure out workarounds. They can still get all the necessities of life without a vaccine, and more and more jobs now are entirely work from home.

If the job they end up with isn't in their chosen field or if they miss having a drink at their local bar, well... their choices have consequences. Better for them to live with them that for everyone else to let those choices kill people.

Think about it yourself for a minute not what others say.

Where have I said I was against vaccines? (As provaxers say against science)

In virtually every COVID-related post you make.

Step away from political issues like anti/pro and all that mess.

Don't presume to tell me what to do.

If you make a claim you have to support it. Opinions and beliefs don't make a difference without evidence. (Not others')

I already have. You deflected.

 

[Alienistic]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Anyone who can't be bothered to do as simple and small an act as getting vaccinated to help stop everything from burnout to death of medical professionals is someone who has demostrated through their actions that they don't appreciate these people and what they do.

You do realize that millions of unvaccinated medical professional staff have saved many lives, delivered many lives, have been those on the frontlines caring for the ill without bias..... do you appreciate these folks? The mirror is now held up to you. Or since they don’t want a mandate..... everything they’ve ever done to care for patients before and after a vaccine came out makes them uncaring and unworthy?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You do realize that millions of unvaccinated medical professional staff have saved many lives, delivered many lives, have been those on the frontlines caring for the ill without bias..... do you appreciate these folks? Or since they don’t want a mandate..... everything they’ve ever done to care for patients before and after a vaccine came out makes them uncaring and unworthy?

Do you realize that outbreaks among unvaccinated medical professional staff killed many medical professionals before they had a way to stop them?

Edit: this may have been unavoidable before, but now it's not. Refusing a vaccine when one is available and then continuing to have face-to-face contact with hospital staff and patients demonstrates a severe disregard for the lives of those staff and patients.

 

[Alienistic]

Do you realize that outbreaks among unvaccinated medical professional staff killed many medical professionals before they had a way to stop them?

Edit: this may have been unavoidable before, but now it's not. Refusing a vaccine when one is available and then continuing to have face-to-face contact with hospital staff and patients demonstrates a severe disregard for the lives of those staff and patients.

You do realize that these people put their lives at stake to care for many before a vaccine ever existed... all unvaccinated. Now that many better measures are implemented (besides a vaccine) the more knowledge gained over the first year or so of the virus...less medical staff deaths. They are better trained with hygiene, procedures, wearing masks. They are not face to face and spitting in people’s faces. Instead of being respected, you are condemning them while belittling others who say they don’t appreciate them. Mirror is still there.