New research shows we have underestimated both the scope and the scale of animal intelligence

[WyattDerp]

eh, wrong thead sorry

 

[BSM1]

I don't think so.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your argument is that animals don't have any consciousness, self awareness, reasoning, emotions, or experience?

I am not saying that lower animals do not have innate intelligence. I am not saying that animals do not communicate. I am not saying that animals cannot adapt to changing environments and learn new tricks. I am saying that animals do these things through instinct and not through linear thinking, projected planning, or reasoning as we know it.

No where has there been any proof produced that animals have emotions. No where has there been any proof that animals have a sense of existing other than the obvious sense of survival for the propagation of the species. Animals are shameless opportunists and their "cuteness" and perceived intelligence is a ploy to get gullible humans to feed them. But this is in no way a "plan" that the animal came up with while staring into space; this, again, is simply instinct.

 

[Alceste]

I am not saying that lower animals do not have innate intelligence. I am not saying that animals do not communicate. I am not saying that animals cannot adapt to changing environments and learn new tricks. I am saying that animals do these things through instinct and not through linear thinking, projected planning, or reasoning as we know it.

No where has there been any proof produced that animals have emotions. No where has there been any proof that animals have a sense of existing other than the obvious sense of survival for the propagation of the species. Animals are shameless opportunists and their "cuteness" and perceived intelligence is a ploy to get gullible humans to feed them. But this is in no way a "plan" that the animal came up with while staring into space; this, again, is simply instinct.

Yeah, you saying that over and over again doesn't make it true. The consensus opinion of biologists contradicts you, and I think I will defer to their expertise and research rather than your personal opinion.

 

[apophenia]

No where has there been any proof produced that animals have emotions.

Yeah, you saying that over and over again doesn't make it true. The consensus opinion of biologists contradicts you, and I think I will defer to their expertise and research rather than your personal opinion.

What we do have here is proof that some folk simply can't recognise emotion, and that the call for 'scientific proof' is made about the bleeding obvious.

Is there any 'proof' that humans have emotions ?

What exactly is 'proof' of the presence of emotions ?

Is there a specific 'emotion hormone', unique to humans ? Has 'emotion' ever been isolated as a physical substance ? If not, it is just mystical mumbo jumbo, just another Flying Spaghetti Monster, right ? There is only data processing. But hang on ... animals are processing data too. But not like we do ! OK ? We process in a profoundly different way - we just can't define the difference except that we make tools and worry more about death. But that means we are conscious and they are just meat puppets ... doesn't it ?

Well I think we worry more about death. Hard to prove though ... maybe animals are just not such ******* as we are, craving reassurance from 'god' or our narcissistic concepts of enlightenment. Aah, abiding in the supernal glow of our own existence .... we are so wonderful, we worship ourselves and call it 'loving god' or 'being enlightened'. Not just stupid automated meat puppets like all the other animals.

It is extraordinary that some humans think they are the superior animal because they think they have clever philosophical answers to entirely stupid superfluous questions.

 

[Alceste]

[youtube]3-wOQJuG13I[/youtube]
Gorillas playing in leaves - YouTube

 

[WyattDerp]

What we do have here is proof that some folk simply can't recognise emotion, and that the call for 'scientific proof' is made about the bleeding obvious.

Considering that people used to have no qualms talking that way about other humans, too (I mean in polite conversation or journals), let's call this progress :cover:

 

[apophenia]

Considering that people used to have no qualms talking that way about other humans, too (I mean in polite conversation or journals), let's call this progress :cover:

True. Here in Australia the indigenous people were classed as 'native fauna' until 1968.

 

[Ouroboros]

I am not saying that lower animals do not have innate intelligence. I am not saying that animals do not communicate. I am not saying that animals cannot adapt to changing environments and learn new tricks. I am saying that animals do these things through instinct and not through linear thinking, projected planning, or reasoning as we know it.

"As we know it" is the key here. Until recently, what we knew was only how we--humans--reasoned. Now, scientists have learned that there are reasoning on other levels and methods, and animals can reason, but reason in a way humans can't (or won't). (swarm behavior for instance.)

No where has there been any proof produced that animals have emotions.

What would be a proof for you that animals have emotions? What would be required to give you to make you agree that they do?

No where has there been any proof that animals have a sense of existing other than the obvious sense of survival for the propagation of the species.

Again, what kind of research and evidence would convince you otherwise?

Animals are shameless opportunists and their "cuteness" and perceived intelligence is a ploy to get gullible humans to feed them. But this is in no way a "plan" that the animal came up with while staring into space; this, again, is simply instinct.

Yeah, somewhat right, but you're putting things into boxes of "black or white" and completely shut your eyes to the different shades of gray. One of the worst things I know is categorical thinking. Reality isn't perfectly lined up as you seem to think.

 

[Straw Dog]

We're all animals and active participants in the greater eco-community. Studies like this continue to illustrate our entrenched anthropocentrism in understanding other forms of life. It also breaks down some cultural barriers we've artificially created to insulate ourselves from primal nature. It reveals both natural limitation and liberation.

 

[Riverwolf]

I am not saying that lower animals do not have innate intelligence. I am not saying that animals do not communicate. I am not saying that animals cannot adapt to changing environments and learn new tricks. I am saying that animals do these things through instinct and not through linear thinking, projected planning, or reasoning as we know it.

Which is also something we're incapable of doing naturally. We have to be taught it.

Our ancestors came up with them by necessity, improving on them with each generation as new situations came up.

Most humans, as far as I can see, operate almost purely on instinct themselves, anyway, so the argument that animals are just instinct is kinda irrelevant, anyway.

'Sides, altruism in humans also has to be taught. It's not something we can do instinctively.

And, for the record, while there is a difference between taught and trained, it's not that relevant to this discussion.