New research shows we have underestimated both the scope and the scale of animal intelligence

[WyattDerp]

What a wonderful article! The Brains of the Animal Kingdom - WSJ.com

Elephants are a perfect example. For years, scientists believed them incapable of using tools. At most, an elephant might pick up a stick to scratch its itchy behind. In earlier studies, the pachyderms were offered a long stick while food was placed outside their reach to see if they would use the stick to retrieve it. This setup worked well with primates, but elephants left the stick alone. From this, researchers concluded that the elephants didn't understand the problem. It occurred to no one that perhaps we, the investigators, didn't understand the elephants.

[..]

Underlying many of our mistaken beliefs about animal intelligence is the problem of negative evidence. If I walk through a forest in Georgia, where I live, and fail to see or hear the pileated woodpecker, am I permitted to conclude that the bird is absent? Of course not. We know how easily these splendid woodpeckers hop around tree trunks to stay out of sight. All I can say is that I lack evidence.

It is quite puzzling, therefore, why the field of animal cognition has such a long history of claims about the absence of capacities based on just a few strolls through the forest. Such conclusions contradict the famous dictum of experimental psychology according to which "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

[..]

The one historical constant in my field is that each time a claim of human uniqueness bites the dust, other claims quickly take its place. Meanwhile, science keeps chipping away at the wall that separates us from the other animals. We have moved from viewing animals as instinct-driven stimulus-response machines to seeing them as sophisticated decision makers.

Aristotle's ladder of nature is not just being flattened; it is being transformed into a bush with many branches. This is no insult to human superiority. It is long-overdue recognition that intelligent life is not something for us to seek in the outer reaches of space but is abundant right here on earth, under our noses.

 

[Secret Chief]

We? I haven't.

The animal whose intelligence is perhaps over-rated is the bald great ape. IMO.

 

[BSM1]

So what's the point?

 

[Revoltingest]

Not all research supports this.
Study: Dolphins Not So Intelligent On Land | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[BSM1]

Not all research supports this.
Study: Dolphins Not So Intelligent On Land | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Goes to show-one man's science is another man's tuna casserole.

 

[WyattDerp]

So what's the point?

What's the point of this research, and making the results of it known?

Not all research supports this.
Study: Dolphins Not So Intelligent On Land | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

None of that negates the specific experiments in the article I posted, so what does "not all research support"? That all animals can do everything? Waitwhut?

 

[BSM1]

What's the point of this research, and making the results of it known?

I guess? So an elephant can use a stick, will that species ever design an deep well system to keep from dying of thirst in Africa?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would say that non-animal owners have underestimated animal awareness and intelligence. Or at least in the very minimum I've not doubted it (a few individual animals yes), and as a whole many of them do show many marks of intelligence if you just watch them.

 

[BSM1]

I would say that non-animal owners have underestimated animal awareness and intelligence. Or at least in the very minimum I've not doubted it (a few individual animals yes), and as a whole many of them do show many marks of intelligence if you just watch them.

I think some people tend to confuse intelligence with instinct when it comes to animals. Intelligence can only come from self-awareness. Self-awareness is, among other things, realizing who or at least what you are in relation to your world. I've never seen anything that suggests any lower animal has displayed self-awareness. Therefore the only animals that have shown what passes as human intelligence are found in Disney movies.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think some people tend to confuse intelligence with instinct when it comes to animals. Intelligence can only come from self-awareness. Self-awareness is, among other things, realizing who or at least what you are in relation to your world. I've never seen anything that suggests any lower animal has displayed self-awareness. Therefore the only animals that have shown what passes as human intelligence are found in Disney movies.

Animals are indeed aware.

An international group of prominent scientists supports the idea that animals are conscious and aware to the degree that humans are. - The list includes all mammals, birds and even some encephlopods.
- The group says consciousness can emerge even in those animals that are very much unlike humans.

Animals Are as With It as Humans, Scientists Say : Discovery News

And if you have ever gotten to know a cat or a dog, they are indeed very much aware of themselves and what is going on around them, and they also think, reason, make judgements, and even have moods. It just took science forever to catch up to what pet owners have long known. There is an episode of Nova Science on animal intelligence if you have Netflix. It's an extremely fascinating show as it shows creatures that most people wouldn't think of as having intellegince, such as an octopus, display signs of intelligence.

 

[Obsrvr]

New research shows we have underestimated both the scope and the scale of animal intelligence

This is not exactly news to anyone who lives with a domestic cat or a house wolf. We will pay for our abuse of God's creatures.

 

[BSM1]

Animals are indeed aware.

Animals Are as With It as Humans, Scientists Say : Discovery News

And if you have ever gotten to know a cat or a dog, they are indeed very much aware of themselves and what is going on around them, and they also think, reason, make judgements, and even have moods. It just took science forever to catch up to what pet owners have long known. There is an episode of Nova Science on animal intelligence if you have Netflix. It's an extremely fascinating show as it shows creatures that most people wouldn't think of as having intellegince, such as an octopus, display signs of intelligence.

Displaying rudimentary problem solving skills is in no way an indication of self-awareness. Self-awareness means you can choose different paths of thoughts and actions. It also means you reason and plan before you make those choices. This is the difference between humans and animals. Animals simply survive. Everything they do is geared toward survival individually and as a species. They do this without thinking about it. This is instinct. Humans exist. They do not simply live from day-today. They plan. They reason. They discuss. They create such things as complex and multi-layered societies, inspired works of art, and exhaustive languages. They have hope for the future and respect for the past. They are aware. Animals aren't.

 

[Alceste]

Displaying rudimentary problem solving skills is in no way an indication of self-awareness. Self-awareness means you can choose different paths of thoughts and actions. It also means you reason and plan before you make those choices. This is the difference between humans and animals. Animals simply survive. Everything they do is geared toward survival individually and as a species. They do this without thinking about it. This is instinct. Humans exist. They do not simply live from day-today. They plan. They reason. They discuss. They create such things as complex and multi-layered societies, inspired works of art, and exhaustive languages. They have hope for the future and respect for the past. They are aware. Animals aren't.

I sense that you have not read any of the links in this thread yet.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Displaying rudimentary problem solving skills is in no way an indication of self-awareness. Self-awareness means you can choose different paths of thoughts and actions. It also means you reason and plan before you make those choices. This is the difference between humans and animals. Animals simply survive. Everything they do is geared toward survival individually and as a species. They do this without thinking about it. This is instinct. Humans exist. They do not simply live from day-today. They plan. They reason. They discuss. They create such things as complex and multi-layered societies, inspired works of art, and exhaustive languages. They have hope for the future and respect for the past. They are aware. Animals aren't.

Studies have confirmed animals do those things. The documentary I suggested shows a dog who has been trained to know the name and appearance of I forgot how many hundreds of toys, and the host of the show brought a toy the dog had never seen before, and when asked to pick the toy from a few of them the dog correctly reasoned which toy was named, even though the dog had never heard of the toys name before or had seen the toy before.
I also suggest you research great ape cultures, wolf cultures, dolphin cultures, and elephant cultures to see just how different animals can react and behave, and even show they know damn well what is going on around them. Elephants especially you cannot deny their awareness.

 

[McBell]

I sense that you have not read any of the links in this thread yet.

Nor spent much time with animals outside his preconceived notions.

hells bells, I am honestly surprised to see that he did not also claim that animals do not communicate amongst themselves.

 

[Alceste]

[youtube]He7Ge7Sogrk[/youtube]
YouTube

 

[Madhuri]

Thanks for sharing the article, it is very interesting!
Not surprising to me, but surprising to most no doubt.

 

[Alceste]

Nor spent much time with animals outside his preconceived notions.

hells bells, I am honestly surprised to see that he did not also claim that animals do not communicate amongst themselves.

No kidding. Kind of an indefensible position, especially given the quality of the links he did not read.

 

[outis]

I've never seen anything that suggests any lower animal has displayed self-awareness.

I've never seen anything that suggests humans have displayed self-awareness.
I provisionally assume humans are self-aware because they're in some ways similar to me. I provisionally assume the same about many animals for the same reason.
Some people have argued that negroes aren't self-aware like other humans for instance. That's one kind of bigotry. Some people have argued the same thing about people affected by any number of disabilities. That's another kind of bigotry. Arguing the same thing about animals in general is arguably a less crude form of bigotry... but it is nonetheless bigotry unless you can come up with some kind of test for self-awareness humans consistently pass and animals consistently fail.

 

[BSM1]

I think most of you are misunderstanding you own premise. I read the links cited and not one said 'YES, LIKE HUMANS, ANIMALS UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF THEIR OWN EXISTENCE." They say things like "...this could indicate awareness akin to human understanding", or "...we feel this might mean somewhat of awareness". Not one valid scientist so far has said anything along the lines of "I had a conversation with a fruit bat (in whatever language a fruit bat my converse in) and we discussed the nature of God". I guess it's fun to imagine that your dog understands human love but, bottom line, if you die Fido will eat you to survive and never shed a tear.