Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss

[loverofhumanity]

So, are most Bahai vegetarian? I couldn't find any stats, and thought you might know.

No idea but Baha'is I know are very diet conscious and always try and avoid unnatural foods.

 

[Milton Platt]

Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss
Seeing the figures of human causalities in “the most murderous century ever” one must note here that Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss, if he and his followers would have not been attacked aggressively; there would have been no human loss.
Muhammad had no intention to capture any lands or to be a king.Right? Please

Regards
______________________
The thread was conceptualized from post:
#32 of respected friend Augustus, thanks and regards to him .
and post #43 paarsurrey, one may like to read them.

The minimum would be zero, and I don't think that happened.

 

[Shad]

IA lot of scientific knowledge wwas passed on from the Arabs to Europe and the west.

Never said it didn't

Universities

A European concept.

algebra astronomy,

the concept of a constitution

Dates back to Sumeria

nationalism

Doesn't apply to pre-18th century.

The list is endless of Islamic contributions to the world too numerous to list here. Encyclopedias and historians have recorded these things so they can be referred to.

Never said otherwise. I pointed out the university concept is European. You should also look up the subjects you commented upon. Encyclopedias and historians also point out these predate Islam by centuries.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Never said it didn't



A European concept.





Dates back to Sumeria



Doesn't apply to pre-18th century.





Never said otherwise. I pointed out the university concept is European. You should also look up the subjects you commented upon. Encyclopedias and historians also point out these predate Islam by centuries.

Whether we agree on all points or not I'm trying to emphasise that the Islamic Revelation brought much to humanity. Trying to prove everything predates Islam is unfair. Yes, there was education before Islam but Islam took it a step further, yes there was formations of groups and tribes but Islam took it much further. History is progressive and not owned by one group or religion and you will find that no society can claim to have contributed everything but it is a shared contribution. The Islamic contributions have been great just as have other civilisations so I don't think it's fair to belittle the contribution of any of them especially not Islam.

 

[Augustus]

By the way,I strongly advise you to search for what happened to philosophers during the golden age of islam. If you are still interested, do another search for why avicenna had to move from one country to another.

Was that not to do with political instability and his political connections?

Averroes had some issues regarding the orthodoxy of his beliefs though.

 

[Augustus]

''he thought heaven and hell were nonsense and just a fairytale'' that's what avicenna stated.

I know that later figures like ibn-Taymiyyah hated him ('The worst of the atheists'), but wasn't aware that he faced problems in his lifetime other than for connections to political figures who lost power.

 

[Augustus]

As he is a scientist,his name is given to many hospitals,academic centers,etc and the ultra con,here is unhappy about it.

The joys of narrow mindedness...

"Well he may have been one of the Islamic world's greatest thinkers, but he was an unorthodox Shiite so we should all hate him"

 

[Shad]

Whether we agree on all points or not I'm trying to emphasise that the Islamic Revelation brought much to humanity.

Islam provided none of what you posted. Muslims did. That is not the same thing.

Trying to prove everything predates Islam is unfair.

You should have said contributed to those subjects.

Yes, there was education before Islam but Islam took it a step further, yes there was formations of groups and tribes but Islam took it much further.

No it didn't as those were Madrassas. There were Cathedral schools doing the same thing for centuries.

History is progressive and not owned by one group or religion and you will find that no society can claim to have contributed everything but it is a shared contribution.

Never said it was. I pointed out the concepts your brought up already existed.

The Islamic contributions have been great just as have other civilisations so I don't think it's fair to belittle the contribution of any of them especially not Islam.

Never said otherwise. You made grand claims either due to lack of knowledge or a mistake in your writing.

 

[gnostic]

Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss
Seeing the figures of human causalities in “the most murderous century ever” one must note here that Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss, if he and his followers would have not been attacked aggressively; there would have been no human loss.
Muhammad had no intention to capture any lands or to be a king.

If that was true, then why did Muhammad ordered the attack upon Ta'if in 630.

Ta'if didn't side with Muhammad in 622, but they also didn't fight in any battle with Mecca.

The only reason why Ta'if was under siege, is because the people of Ta'if didn't grant refuge in 622. That's Muhammad's petty aggression and hostility towards the townspeople.

The very idea that Muhammad was a peaceful man is a joke.

And when Ta'if did surrender to Muhammad, they asked to be allowed to keep their pagan religion, Muhammad rejected their term.

So compulsion was involved in the conversions of Ta'if: become Muslims or face exile, slavery or execution.

The "no compulsion" in Islam is a joke and a myth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Islam provided none of what you posted. Muslims did. That is not the same thing.




You should have said contributed to those subjects.



No it didn't as those were Madrassas. There were Cathedral schools doing the same thing for centuries.



Never said it was. I pointed out the concepts your brought up already existed.



Never said otherwise. You made grand claims either due to lack of knowledge or a mistake in your writing.

Baha'i sources are fully accurate but there's so much detail to go into that remembering it all is too much. Too, too much to try and recall but I know it. Here's some quotes of what I'm talking about.

“In the early ages of Islám the peoples of Europe acquired the sciences and arts of civilization from Islám as practiced by the inhabitants of Andalusia. A careful and thorough investigation of the historical record will establish the fact that the major part of the civilization of Europe is derived from Islám; for all the writings of Muslim scholars and divines and philosophers were gradually collected in Europe and were with the most painstaking care weighed and debated at academic gatherings and in the centers of learning, after which their valued contents would be put to use. Today, numerous copies of the works of Muslim scholars which are not to be found in Islamic countries, are available in the libraries of Europe.

“Furthermore, the laws and principles current in all European countries are derived to a considerable degree and indeed virtually in their entirety from the works on jurisprudence and the legal decision of Muslim theologians. Were it not for the fear of unduly lengthening the present text, We would cite these borrowings one by one”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “The Secret of Divine Civilization.”

The Secret of Divine Civilization | Bahá’í Reference Library

From another source

Islamic Contributions to Civilization by Stanwood Cobb

EVEN in this modern age of enlightenment few people are aware of the significant contributions made by the Islamic world to the progress of humanity. Yet for more than five centuries that civilization not only led the world in science, but was the only portion of mankind actively engaged in the systematic pursuit of knowledge.

Beginning with the rise to power of Baghdad in the mid-eighth century and continuing beyond Islamic political decline five hundred years later, science and education flourished under Muslim influence. No such activity characterized any other part of the contemporary world. The lights of Graeco-Roman culture had been extinguished and Europe was engulfed in the Dark Ages; India was languishing in a period of stagnation; and China, while blossoming richly in the arts, was almost wholly devoid of science.

(Islamic Contributions to Civilisation.)

 

[Shad]

Baha'i sources are fully accurate but there's so much detail to go into that remembering it all is too much. Too, too much to try and recall but I know it. Here's some quotes of what I'm talking about.

“In the early ages of Islám the peoples of Europe acquired the sciences and arts of civilization from Islám as practiced by the inhabitants of Andalusia. A careful and thorough investigation of the historical record will establish the fact that the major part of the civilization of Europe is derived from Islám; for all the writings of Muslim scholars and divines and philosophers were gradually collected in Europe and were with the most painstaking care weighed and debated at academic gatherings and in the centers of learning, after which their valued contents would be put to use. Today, numerous copies of the works of Muslim scholars which are not to be found in Islamic countries, are available in the libraries of Europe.

“Furthermore, the laws and principles current in all European countries are derived to a considerable degree and indeed virtually in their entirety from the works on jurisprudence and the legal decision of Muslim theologians. Were it not for the fear of unduly lengthening the present text, We would cite these borrowings one by one”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “The Secret of Divine Civilization.”

The Secret of Divine Civilization | Bahá’í Reference Library

From another source

Islamic Contributions to Civilization by Stanwood Cobb

EVEN in this modern age of enlightenment few people are aware of the significant contributions made by the Islamic world to the progress of humanity. Yet for more than five centuries that civilization not only led the world in science, but was the only portion of mankind actively engaged in the systematic pursuit of knowledge.

Beginning with the rise to power of Baghdad in the mid-eighth century and continuing beyond Islamic political decline five hundred years later, science and education flourished under Muslim influence. No such activity characterized any other part of the contemporary world. The lights of Graeco-Roman culture had been extinguished and Europe was engulfed in the Dark Ages; India was languishing in a period of stagnation; and China, while blossoming richly in the arts, was almost wholly devoid of science.

(Islamic Contributions to Civilisation.)

Quote a specific example not generalizations

 

[loverofhumanity]

Quote a specific example not generalizations

There are some examples here..

Islamic world contributions to Medieval Europe - Wikipedia

 

[Shad]

There are some examples here..

Islamic world contributions to Medieval Europe - Wikipedia

That isn't what specific means.... I was talking about specifics from the source you had linked as your source is inaccurate. For example it claims the windmill was invited during Omar's reign except it wasn't.... The reason for this is that your accurate source doesn't know there are different types of windmills.

Wiki can be edited by anyone.

I know Muslims contributed. I was pointing out your claims are gross generalizations develop of knowledge of the subjects you claimed. Such as confusing a Madrassas with a university

 

[loverofhumanity]

That isn't what specific means.... I was talking about specifics from the source you had linked as your source is inaccurate. For example it claims the windmill was invited during Omar's reign except it wasn't.... The reason for this is that your accurate source doesn't know there are different types of windmills.

Wiki can be edited by anyone.

I know Muslims contributed. I was pointing out your claims are gross generalizations develop of knowledge of the subjects you claimed. Such as confusing a Madrassas with a university

It's not correct to say that the idea of universities didn't spread from madrasahs of Islam to Europe. We're talking about concepts and principles here. For instance, although these were religious institutions, they later were copied and used in different ways by Europe.

The concept of multiculturalism began in the Islamic world with things like the constitution of Medina. The concept of freedom of religion is what Muhammad fought for and is now the cornerstone of every democracy.

A Muslim may have invented the fountain pen but the concept is what is important here which was expanded upon later.

Concepts unheard of in the western world like these were already a part of Islamic life.

One of the oldest constitutions ever written was 1400 in Arabia before the Magna Carta so ideas spread.

Muslims come first in the history of constitutions

Each civilisation has built upon and expanded upon inventions/knowledge made by previous civilisations. Great contributions to society came from Hindu, Buddhist, Christian and Zoroastrian Faiths whether it was a concept or a philosophy, arts or sciences or medicine.

I'm saying that all the civilisations associated with a Manifestation of God changed the course of history no matter what Faith it is.

 

[Shad]

It's not correct to say that the idea of universities didn't spread from madrasahs of Islam to Europe.

Again a Madrassas is not a university no more than a Cathedral teaching religious course is one.

We're talking about concepts and principles here.

Yes hence why one is a religious institution by definition

For instance, although these were religious institutions, they later were copied and used in different ways by Europe.

Empty claim.

The concept of multiculturalism began in the Islamic world with things like the constitution of Medina. The concept of freedom of religion is what Muhammad fought for and is now the cornerstone of every democracy.

No as Islamic rule dictated what the other cultures were legally allowed to do. Multiculturalism requires equality not superiority cultures.

One of the oldest constitutions ever written was 1400 in Arabia before the Magna Carta so ideas spread.

Muslims come first in the history of constitutions

Too bad Aristotle covered this concept centuries before Islam in Constitution of Athens, Politics, and Nicomachean Ethics. Also that is a treaty called the Treaty of Yathrib.

You provided no evidence that the Magna Carta is based on anything from the Muslim world. Grand claims, no substance.

Each civilisation has built upon and expanded upon inventions/knowledge made by previous civilisations.

Yes. Except you have a habit of getting a lot wrong when you make specific claims

Great contributions to society came from Hindu, Buddhist, Christian and Zoroastrian Faiths whether it was a concept or a philosophy, arts or sciences or medicine.

I'm saying that all the civilisations associated with a Manifestation of God changed the course of history no matter what Faith it is.

Yet when you bring up specifics you still get it wrong. You get the generalization right which is common knowledge, or should be.

Again you dodge my comment. I was questioning your source. You have yet to address your source. Instead your bring up general knowledge in history when I am talking about specifics.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Again a Madrassas is not a university no more than a Cathedral teaching religious course is one.

I strongly disagree on this one. A seed is not a tree but that doesn't mean it has all the potentialities of one. The madrasahs were a prelude to universities throughout Europe not the other way round. They were not Sunday school like Christians. Evolution is common sense. I don't need to name every madras and which university in Europe it inspired. It's just plain common sense that people borrowed and expanded on the idea.


Yes hence why one is a religious institution by definition

It doesn't matter again. It's an idea and a concept. A principle or an idea can evolve. Take the internet. One can use it for a million different uses although typically it is technology but it can be used for a million different things.

Empty claim.

Matter of opinion

No as Islamic rule dictated what the other cultures were legally allowed to do. Multiculturalism requires equality not superiority cultures.

Again you don't seem to be understanding that it's th concept of having multi cultures in a society under one rule and then the west improved on it to add equality to the principle.


Too bad Aristotle covered this concept centuries before Islam in Constitution of Athens, Politics, and Nicomachean Ethics. Also that is a treaty called the Treaty of Yathrib.

Muhammad united the Arabs and formed one of the first ever nation states. All these ideas of Ummah or nationalism with a constitution spread to Europe then to the USA and Australia after they were discovered. Islam had its own nation with a constitution before the USA was even discovered.

You provided no evidence that the Magna Carta is based on anything from the Muslim world. Grand claims, no substance.

I didn't say it was. I only said Constitutions were born first in the Islamic world well before the Magna Carta existed.


Yes. Except you have a habit of getting a lot wrong when you make specific claims

We are speaking here not about domination of all knowledge but evolution over time. It's very likely that things like madrasses, the Medina constitution which were firsts of their time help form our systems of nationalism with each having a written constitution.

Yet when you bring up specifics you still get it wrong. You get the generalization right which is common knowledge, or should be.

My view is Im not confining myself to saying madrasses had nothing to do with inspiring universities in Europe because they are not isolated events. It doesn't matter they were religious or not. The concept of a university issuing degrees was an idea that has spread internationally that began in Islam.

Again you dodge my comment. I was questioning your source. You have yet to address your source. Instead your bring up general knowledge in history when I am talking about specifics.

Illustrated Encyclopedia of Golden Age of Science and Civilization in Islam.

Also refer to

History of the Intellectual Development of Europe
by John William Draper.

 

[Shad]

Illustrated Encyclopedia of Golden Age of Science and Civilization in Islam.

Also refer to

History of the Intellectual Development of Europe
by John William Draper.

Read my post and respond to what I said. I pointed out mistakes in your "accurate" Bahai source. I did not ask for more sources.

Gabriel Iqbal is a quack repeating nonsense about heart intelligence and consciousness like Deepak Chopra nor is he a historian. Why would I read one of his books when he already operates from lala land?

Drapers views on Islam are very harsh from calling them bigots to delusional. He put forward Muslim contributions was not due to Islam but Muslims learning from Christian, Persians and Indians.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Read my post and respond to what I said. I pointed out mistakes in your "accurate" Bahai source. I did not ask for more sources.

As far as accurate I was meaning Baha'i scripture as being infallible not individual Bahá'í authors.

"The windmill, as far as can be ascertained, actually originated with the Muslims."

Cobb is not the only one who makes this claim. But to his credit he has added 'as far as can be ascertained' indicating there's room for adjustment. However Muslims did play a roll regardless as to whether they were the first or not.

 

[Shad]

As far as accurate I was meaning Baha'i scripture as being infallible not individual Bahá'í authors.

Backpedaling. You claimed your source was accurate when it wasn't

"The windmill, as far as can be ascertained, actually originated with the Muslims."

Cobb is not the only one who makes this claim. But to his credit he has added 'as far as can be ascertained' indicating there's room for adjustment. However Muslims did play a roll regardless as to whether they were the first or not.

Too bad there is evidence of other windmills that you can easily look up yourself. Cobb was lazy in his research.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Backpedaling. You claimed your source was accurate when it wasn't



Too bad there is evidence of other windmills that you can easily look up yourself. Cobb was lazy in his research.

Sorry. I didn't clarify that we Bahá'í's have authoritative sources and unauthoritative sources and accuracy is only claimed for the authoritative scripture not individual Baha'i authors but if you want to call it back pedalling then I will concede defeat.

In Cobb's defense he didn't have Google like we do.

Anyway I've learnt much from you and appreciate you correcting me. Please correct me anytime you feel I am wrong as that way I'll improve.