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Featured Muhammad in the Bible

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by AdamRaja, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    There is no mention of a name, one would think an all knowing God would give a name, this is nothing new, there's always someone trying to fit Muhammed in the Bible and even the song of Solomon,it's not convincing Imo.
     
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  2. AdamRaja

    AdamRaja Islamic Philosopher

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    I understand. IMO it is.
     
  3. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    But Jews also believe there were non-Jewish prophets as well ergo Noah for example.
     
  4. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    This is one of the dumbest things Muslims say. The only people it's convincing to is other Muslims of the stupid persuasion. The only comparative is stupid Christians who believe it's talking about Jesus.

    Look at the freaking context. It's talking about how when the Jews are going to go into Israel, they shouldn't turn to diviners and fortune tellers. Rather, G-d says that He would provide them with prophets, so that they won't need to turn to those practitioners of forbidden arts. And that's what happened. There were prophets from Moses all the way until the end of the first exile available.

    Any interpretation that is not that one, is eisegetic.
     
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  5. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    For a good reason. The SoS one is even worse than the Deut. 18 one. It's one thing if someone feels that even though there's absolutely no proof supporting the interpretation, they still believe it because religion, but they smartly keep it to themselves our of recognition that there's absolutely no proof and the context definitely doesn't allow for it.
    It's another thing completely when these people keep coming to RF and pointing to this amazing proof of Muhammad in the Bible.
     
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  6. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    True, the sos one is a square peg in a round hole, its never going to fit.
     
  7. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    What is far more important is Muhammad’s Revelation resulted in the Holy Quran, united a disparate group of Arab tribes, taught them to worship Allah, lifted their moral standards, brought the Islamic Golden Age, and like Christianity has universal teachings.

    The biggest problem Islam and Christianity has is too many of their adherents don’t question what their religious leaders teach today and recognise the problems in applying what their prophets taught centuries ago to the modern world.
     
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  8. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Can I underline something?
    Etymologically a prophet is someone who predicts the future. Since the word comes from the Greek verb pro-fimì (προ-φημί I say before).

    So Abraham was not a prophet. Jeremiah was.
     
  9. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

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    Nice try. No.

    1. Also from Deuteronomy.

    Deuteronomy 32:35 "It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them." (That is, don't take vengeance)
    (After Jesus)
    Romans 12:19 "Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord."
    (Nothing changed. The law was fulfilled)
    Quran 18:65-81 (Basically, honor killings)

    Muhammad does not follow the Law of the Torah, but instead does the opposite.

    2. Why is this important? By definition, I have already established that in one key way (and there are more), Muhammad is very different from the Bible. But it gets worse. Muhammad is in the Bible (sorta). But not in a flattering way.

    Galatians 1:6-9 says the following, " 6I am astonished how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!"

    Matthew 7:15-20 says the following, "15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, by their fruit you will recognize them."

    For instance, sheep's clothing here would be pretending to be the chosen one of the Bible. But it is not so. The Jews aren't sure Messiah has come, Christians believe that the Christ fulfills the prophecies.

    AccordingtotheScriptures.org :: 353 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

    Including Deuteronomy 18:18.
     
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  10. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I think you mean, we are sure the Messiah hasn't come. No fulfilled Messianic prophecies = no Messiah.
     
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  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe that Muhammad was the last and final Prophet in the Prophetic Cycle of religion, thus He was the Seal of the Prophets.

    The Bab and Baha'u'llah were Manifestations of God that ushered in a new Cycle of religion called the Baha'i Cycle, also called the Cycle of Fulfillment, since it was the cycle in which the prophecies of former religions will be fulfilled.

    There is some confusion as to what the word Prophet means, so Abdu'l-Baha clarified that below. Baha'i' would consider Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah to be divine Prophets who were also universal Manifestations of God. This list is not all-inclusive. There were a few others.

    Question: How many kinds of divine Prophets are there?

    Answer: There are three kinds of divine Prophets. One kind are the universal Manifestations, which are even as the sun. Through Their advent the world of existence is renewed, a new cycle is inaugurated, a new religion is revealed, souls are quickened to a new life, and East and West are flooded with light. These Souls are the universal Manifestations of God and have been sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind.

    Another kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, not leaders and law-givers, but they are nonetheless the recipients of the hidden inspirations of God. Yet another kind are Prophets Whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality. But the universal Manifestations are all-encompassing: They are like the root, and all others are as the branches; they are like the sun, and all others are as the moon and the stars.

    Additional Tablets, Extracts and Talks | Bahá’í Reference Library

     
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  12. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it make more sense that Moses is saying Joshua would succeed him?
     
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  13. Rival

    Rival Inodj har-ek Amun-Ra
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    DON'T GIVE THE GAME AWAY!

    ...Sake.

     
    #33 Rival, Nov 5, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I have to disagree here. I understand the Muslim belief but Hebrew scripture does not support it. Prophesy was to be fulfilled through the generations of Isaac and Jacob.

    I do not believe that Ishmael figures in Father Abraham's covenant with God, nor does Muhammad. It is true that God did not forsake Ishmael, but he was sent away with his mother, dismissed from his father's house because of relentlessly taunting his younger brother. Isaac was the son of Abraham by his wife Sarah, a miracle of her old age.....it was through Isaac that the seed would come....not Ishmael.

    The seed of Abraham proved to be Jesus Christ. He is the prophet like Moses.

    Here are some of the ways in which Jesus proved to be like Moses:

     
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  15. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    You sound frustrated. I agree the verses refer to prophets from Moses until the first exile. Where in the text is it implied G-d would stop sending prophets after the first exile? Are there not post-exilic prophets? Beyond that a simple approach to test the authenticity of any prophet (Deuteronomy 18:22).
     
  16. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    You sound like a psychologist.
    Great.

    It does not. I was explaining how what happened is consistent with what the text says.

    Nope. The last prophets were only those who came out of the Babylonian exile.

    Don't forget about Deut. 13:2-6.
     
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  17. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    In regards post exilic prophets, what about...

    Timeline of the Hebrew prophets - Wikipedia ?

    So are Jesus and Muhammad rejected because they followed false gods or their prophecies did not come to pass?
     
  18. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    What I meant was that no new prophets after the exile. These were all prophets who went through the exile (and we believe, we born before the destruction of the Temple).

    Yes, among others.
     
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  19. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    If Jesus was born to the virgin Mary, doesn't that prove to be problematic with no male lineage?

    Muhammad protected His people from the wholesale slaughter of the Quraysh tribe.

    Military career of Muhammad - Wikipedia

    Muhammad and His followers fled Mecca with His Followers but later returned triumphant.

    Hegira - Wikipedia

    Muhammad taught His followers to fast 30 days each year from dawn to dusk.

    So was Muhammad.

    “Bring thy Lord to remembrance in thy (very) soul, with humility and in reverence,” “Call on your Lord with humility and in private: for Allah loveth not those who trespass beyond bounds.”

    (The Qur’an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 7)

    “The Prophet was a very shy (meek) person,”

    (Islam, Hadith, Bukhari Vol 6, Book 60, # 316

    “A man asked permission to see the Prophet. He said, ‘Let Him come in; What an evil man of the tribe he is! (Or, What an evil brother of the tribe he is).’ But when he entered, the Prophet spoke to him gently in a polite manner. I said to him, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! You have said what you have said, then you spoke to him in a very gentle and polite manner?’ “Allah’s Apostle I said, ‘Be gentle and calm, O ‘Aisha! Be gentle and beware of being harsh and of saying evil things.’” Muhammad spoke with true meekness and humbleness in his person.

    (Islam, Hadith, Bukhari Vol 8, Book 73, # 152 and Book 75, # 410

    So did Muhammad.

    Miracles of Muhammad - Wikipedia

    If a Covenant is a binding agreement between God and man then Muhammad brought a Covenant too that required His people to obey the commandments of Allah .

    ‘Say, ‘If you love Allah, follow me: then will Allah love you and forgive you your faults. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.’
    Quran 3:32

    Further He brought a Covenant specifically for the Christians:

    Ashtiname of Muhammad - Wikipedia

    There are important ways that Muhammad is much more like Moses, than Jesus.

    1/ Muhammad revealed many laws as did Moses. Jesus revealed few new laws.

    2/ Moses united His people as did Muhammad. Jesus did not unite the Jewish people.

    3/ Both Moses and Muhammad were eventually accepted by their people. Jesus wasn't.

    4/ Both Moses and Muhammad provided guidance in regards conflict with other peoples and empowered them to physically resist and conquer their enemies. Jesus did not.

    5/ Both Moses and Muhammad married (both had more than one wife) and had children. Jesus neither married, nor had children.
     
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  20. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    Probably the most important similarities between Judaism and Islam are strict monotheism whereas Christianity has a Triune God. Both Judaism and Islam reject a belief in the trinity.

    Most Christians believe Jesus is physically God incarnate. Jews and Muslims have no such belief in regards the founder of their faith.
     
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