Moses' new prophet

[Bishka]

To me, Moses' new prophet seemed to have very little to do with a Messiah. Again, I don't understand why we are getting so sidetracked.

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What are we getting sidetracked on?

 

[kai]

This is really off-topic.

I wouldn't real know much about the Messianic prophecies in the OT, and have not investigate in anyway, but didn't the Messianic phenomena came about, during the time of their return from exile in Babylon?

They didn't have a king, so they desire an ideal king from David's line.

To me, Moses' new prophet seemed to have very little to do with a Messiah. Again, I don't understand why we are getting so sidetracked.

On the Islamic front, I don't think a promise of new prophet have anything to do with one last prophet, thus your Muhammad. It does speak of any last prophet, but a prophet who would lead the Israelites. It doesn't have anything to do with Arabs, or more precisely, Ishmaelites, or starting a new religion.

the reason i was talking about the messiah was to put over the point that moses was talking about a prophet otherwise he would have mentioned the son of god bit and there was no messah principle at that time, so i think jesus is out,as for mohhammed its to far into the future too much will happen to the Irealites before mohhammeds coming for it not to be a prophet before mohhammed

 

[Bishka]

the reason i was talking about the messiah was to put over the point that moses was talking about a prophet otherwise he would have mentioned the son of god
bit and there was no messah principle at that time,

Actually, I believe AlanGurvey said there was the principle of the Messiah at the time, and Moses probably wouldn't have called Him the Son of God, because the people weren't looking for the son of God, they were looking for a Messiah.

so i think jesus is out,as for mohhammed its to far into the future too much will happen to the Irealites before mohhammeds coming for it not to be a prophet before mohhammed

I defintley think Jesus is in, because of the scripture found in acts.

 

[gnostic]

Who said that requirement for the Messiah would be the "son of god" or even a prophet or king?

Sorry. I was far more interested in the Genesis of the OT Bible and comparing them to other creation myths. As I said before, the Messiah was never my interest or being saved, so I am asking questions.

 

[Bishka]

Who said that requirement for the Messiah would be the "son of god" or even a prophet or king?

No one, but many people because of multiple interpretations believe it to be so, but what if that part was taken out of the Bible?

 

[Ody]

Gnostic, when do you believe the oral torah came into being?

 

[Ody]

The Judaic perspective is that it all came on Har Sinai when Moshe recieved the entire torah, Oral and Written from HaShem. So it could easily be what Moshe was talking bout. ( that, perhaps the Prophet described by Moshe was Moshiach)

 

[Ody]

And after all Mainonides formulated de 13 principles of faith in his commentary of the Mishna, in which from the Mishna, belief in the Jewish Moshiach is seen as a key principle of Jewish faith. Note also Moshe recieved the entire torah at Har Sinai, which means he would have known of the inevitable comming of moshiach, so yes the idea of the moshiach was around back then!


(rambly today, neeeed monster)

 

[gnostic]

but what if that part was taken out of the Bible?

I have no idea.

I don't think any pre-Christian Judaism (as well as pre-Christian texts) ever thought that the Messiah being "son of God".

 

[Ody]

I have no idea.

I don't think any pre-Christian Judaism (as well as pre-Christian texts) ever thought that the Messiah being "son of God".

Nope, not at all, Moshiach is man

 

[Bishka]

I have no idea.

I don't think any pre-Christian Judaism (as well as pre-Christian texts) ever thought that the Messiah being "son of God".

Well, then I guess you haven't researched what the LDS believe.

 

[Ody]

The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)


Thank you wiki!

So we see, the idea that the messiah will be g-d is a later post prophet invention. Atleast from a torah stand point x.x

Although it doesn't neccesairly destroy the idea of a man/G-d mix thingy. :areyoucra

So in a sense it doesn't really rule out a G-d in human shell/flesh idea.

 

[gnostic]

Well, then I guess you haven't researched what the LDS believe.

I may have a elder sister who is LDS, but it was not the path that I took.

 

[gnostic]

Gnostic, when do you believe the oral torah came into being?

From what I understand, the Oral Torah was everything that precedented the Written Torah of Moses.

I supposed the Oral Torah is sort of like the English Common Law, unwritten and based more on customs and precedent, instead of statutes or codes.

 

[kai]

in the christian bible the messiah isnt mentioned till the time of the prophets , so in reality why would jesus be the prophet moses was talking about what effect did he have on the jews . now i am sure that i will be corrected but the moshiac is not mentioned in the torah, and the role of the moshiach was the ingathering of the exiles; restoration of the religious courts of justice; an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; reward to the righteous; rebuilding of Jerusalem; restoration of the line of King David; and restoration of temple service.
jesus didnt do any of this so he isnt the moshiach, so by default if he is the son of god he cannot be the prophet moses was talking about.

 

[Ezzedean]

How did we get talking about it? Ezzedan got extremley offtopic and went off on a completley unrelated topic.

How was I off topic? I stuck to the topic at hand. We were discussing Deuteronomy 18, and one of the choices was Muhammed. I was shown a verse in Acts which stated that it was Jesus that Moses spoke of (apparantly) so then I brought up John 16 12-14, which has everything to do with the topic at hand because Jesus is making a very similar prophecy as to the one Moses made. How was that off topic? I was under the impression that we were having an intelligent conversation, but I guess not. For whatever reason you've felt the need to point me out as the one who is responsible for going off on a completely unrelated topic when in reality it had everything to do with it.

Sorry for even bringing it up, and sorry for responding so late, 12 hour shifts all week, seems like all I do is work and sleep these days.

Peace and Blessings
Ezzedean

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

in the christian bible the messiah isnt mentioned till the time of the prophets , so in reality why would jesus be the prophet moses was talking about what effect did he have on the jews .

Moses' prophecy doesn't directly relate to the Jewish principle of a Messiah, since the idea wasn't fully formed. However, why does that automatically mean that Jesus wasn't the one he was talking about? You're saying that the prophecy wasn't about the Messiah, so it couldn't be Jesus...but then go on to say that Jesus wasn't the Messiah, anyways. I'm confused at your logic there. Jesus had a profound impact on the Jews....they either hated him or loved him. Most of them hated Him, and as a people they generally rejected Him as Messiah.

Now i am sure that i will be corrected but the moshiac is not mentioned in the torah, and the role of the moshiach was the ingathering of the exiles; restoration of the religious courts of justice; an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; reward to the righteous; rebuilding of Jerusalem; restoration of the line of King David; and restoration of temple service.
jesus didnt do any of this so he isnt the moshiach, so by default if he is the son of god he cannot be the prophet moses was talking about

Those things are promised to occur when Christ returns again...due to the fact that the Jews rejected Christ, he did not complete His role as the Jewish Messiah. Therefore, He promised His disciples that He would return again in glory, judge the wicked, reward the righteous, set up His eternal kingdom, etc etc.

FerventGodSeeker

 

[Bishka]

in the christian bible the messiah isnt mentioned till the time of the prophets , so in reality why would jesus be the prophet moses was talking about .

For Christians, if you read the Acts scripture I have stated multiple times, that's the reason why it is Christ.

 

[kai]

Moses' prophecy doesn't directly relate to the Jewish principle of a Messiah, since the idea wasn't fully formed. However, why does that automatically mean that Jesus wasn't the one he was talking about? You're saying that the prophecy wasn't about the Messiah, so it couldn't be Jesus...but then go on to say that Jesus wasn't the Messiah, anyways. I'm confused at your logic there. Jesus had a profound impact on the Jews....they either hated him or loved him. Most of them hated Him, and as a people they generally rejected Him as Messiah.

Those things are promised to occur when Christ returns again...due to the fact that the Jews rejected Christ, he did not complete His role as the Jewish Messiah. Therefore, He promised His disciples that He would return again in glory, judge the wicked, reward the righteous, set up His eternal kingdom, etc etc.

FerventGodSeeker

ok heres what i mean if jesus is the son of god or god himelf i think moses might have mentioned it.the jewish meshiach and the christian messiah are two different things i dont think most jews hated him they just didnt beleive in him and he was rejected as the meshiach because he did not fulfill the meshiach principles.its the christian belief only thast says he was the messiah.

 

[Bishka]

ok heres what i mean if jesus is the son of god or god himelf i think moses might have mentioned it.

Why? What would be the need.

[/quote]
d he was rejected as the meshiach because he did not fulfill the meshiach principles.its the christian belief only thast says he was the messiah.[/quote]

Yes, and we all of differences of belief and doctrine.