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Moses' new prophet

Who do you think is Moses' promised prophet in Deuteronomy 18?


  • Total voters
    16

Ezzedean

Active Member
beckysoup61 said:
So did Joseph Smith.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29465

You're right though. Let's stick to the topic at hand. I do believe that Moses was speaking of Mohammed... I listen to Christians say that Jesus was not just a mere prophet, he was much more, and then you go on to state that the PROPHET in which Moses was speaking of in Deuteronomy 18 was in fact Jesus. I dont play around with words, I don't see what isnt written. It is written in Deuteronomy 18 that a PROPHET will come, you have made it clear along with many other Christians that Jesus is NOT a mere Prophet, therfore you saying that Deuteronomy 18 is speaking of Jesus makes zero sense to me, and your contradicting yourself by justifying such a thing.

Now as for what Jesus says in the book of John which is 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

T
his prophecy (to me), is clearly talking about the same person who Moses was speaking about. The description which Jesus uses, is the same as the description Moses uses. Again, I dont play around with words, and I dont see what isn't written, from what I read in these descriptions, it seems to me that Mohammed is being talked about. Now as for you believing it could be Jesus, I've already explained how I think that's not the case since he is clearly talking about another person and not himself, and as for Joseph Smith ( a person whom I've never heard of until just today) go to the webpage I've provided and click on the link in which it provides. When your done that, tell me if Joseph Smith can even hold a candle to Mohammed, and tell me if it makes sense that Jesus and Moses were talking about a man who the world knows of, and a man who changed the world (Mohammed), or if they were talking about Joseph Smith who to be completely honest I know nothing about and cant even tell you one of his success stories. I live in Canada, where Christianity is the majority religion, so if Joseph Smith was this great prophet, you'd think I would have heard of him at one point in my 21 years on earth.

Now please know that I'm not knocking on Jospeh Smith, and although I don't know who he is... I respect him, because I respect you, and you seem to hold him in high regards so I will trust your judgment, but just know that I find it difficult to believe that Jesus and Moses were talking about a man who had very little influence on the world we live in today.

I'm going to cut the grass, my parents get home from Lebanon today and I want everyhting to be nice and clean for them.

Here is the link
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29465

Peace and Blessings to everyone
Ezzedean

 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Ezzedean said:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29465

You're right though. Let's stick to the topic at hand. I do believe that Moses was speaking of Mohammed... I listen to Christians say that Jesus was not just a mere prophet, he was much more, and then you go on to state that the PROPHET in which Moses was speaking of in Deuteronomy 18 was in fact Jesus. I dont play around with words, I don't see what isnt written. It is written in Deuteronomy 18 that a PROPHET will come, you have made it clear along with many other Christians that Jesus is NOT a mere Prophet, therfore you saying that Deuteronomy 18 is speaking of Jesus makes zero sense to me, and your contradicting yourself by justifying such a thing.

Ezzedean, I wasn't playing around with words.

Act 3:22-23 states that Jesus Christ was the one that Moses was talking about. I have something to back myself up, you have nothing to back yourself up.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Ezzedean said:
Now please know that I'm not knocking on Jospeh Smith, and although I don't know who he is... I respect him, because I respect you, and you seem to hold him in high regards so I will trust your judgment, but just know that I find it difficult to believe that Jesus and Moses were talking about a man who had very little influence on the world we live in today.

I'

Little influence eh? Ever heard of the Mormon Church Ezzedean? That's what I belong to, Joseph Smith was the founder, prophet, seer and revealtor.

There are over 12 million members and growing stronger every day, over 120 temples around the world. He had a vision that changed the world.

There are some people who could say the same about Mohammad.
 

Ezzedean

Active Member
beckysoup61 said:
Ezzedean, I wasn't playing around with words.

Act 3:22-23 states that Jesus Christ was the one that Moses was talking about. I have something to back myself up, you have nothing to back yourself up.

Okay, I read these verses and can agree that Moses was talking about Jesus, so now tell me who was Jesus talking about in John 16?

Now for everyone who doesn't know what Act 3:22-23 says, let me show you. I'll start at 20.

20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Hmmmm? Is Jesus a prophet? Or the son of God? It looks like in these verses that he is a prophet, but I thought was much more than a mere prophet? Interesting.

John 16 12-14
12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

Who is Jesus talking about? Who is HE? It's not Jesus, so who is it? The spirit of truth is a person... hence "WHEN HE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH. Who is HE?

As for the proof you're asking for. I made it clear in an earlier post that I could agree that it wasn't Mohammed that Moses was speaking of. I am a muslim discussing the Bible, and I think the question I've raised with John is a very good question, and I think many will agree that your answer doesn't make any sense.

Peace
 

kai

ragamuffin
AlanGurvey said:
Moshiach.

Damn ap physics... i hate working on sat!
please elaborate i am interested to know if the concept of the messiah existed at the time of moses this is obviously before israel judah david etc, this is the time of the exodus it is important to the idea that moses meant jesus in duet 18, i still believe that it would be too far into the future to be mohhammed for one thing mohhammed was not an isrealite and it says in my bible "instead he will raise up a prophet like me an israelite"
 
Ezzedean said:
If this be the case, would you agree that the holy spirit isn't doing that good of a job? Considering all the different sects and confusion amongst Christians and Christianity? Dont get offended by that comment, but I just think that if the holy spirit is behind everything, then it's in error due to the fact that you have Catholics, Christians, Mormons, Babtists, LDS, Jahova Witness, and so on and so forth, and teaching from the same book, but yet they all believe they are more right than the other. Where is the Holy Spirit to clear up all this confusion amongst you Christians?

Excellent question. The answer is that all those groups are not the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church of the first century. The Holy Spirit has, however, guided the one true, Catholic Church for the last 2,000 years running, and has never abandoned her, as promised.

Besides, I could make the same claim of Islam (which I assume you believe is guided and directed by Allah). Why are there Sunnis, Shiites, Sufis, Ahmaddiya (spelling?) ? Why do they fight so aggressively against each other? By your own standard, Allah can't be guiding Islam that well, either.
 
Ezzedean said:
Hmmmm? Is Jesus a prophet? Or the son of God?
Or both? ;)

It looks like in these verses that he is a prophet, but I thought was much more than a mere prophet? Interesting.
When the Bible refers to Christ as a prophet, it doesn't mean He is limited to only being a human prophet. For example, when someone comments that my friend Joe is a great communicator, that doesn't mean he cannot also be a good friend, a responsible leader, etc. Yes, Jesus is a prophet, but He is more than just a prophet.

John 16 12-14
12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

Who is Jesus talking about? Who is HE? It's not Jesus, so who is it? The spirit of truth is a person
Well FINALLY! Someone who is not a Trinitarian admitting that the Holy Spirit is a Person, based on the plain reading of a Biblical passage....go figure, wonders never cease....:)

... hence "WHEN HE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH. Who is HE?
He's exactly who Christ says He is back in chapter 14 of John (still part of the same uninterrupted speech that runs all the way through 15)...the Holy Spirit.


As for the proof you're asking for. I made it clear in an earlier post that I could agree that it wasn't Mohammed that Moses was speaking of.
Thanks for your honesty. :)
I am a muslim discussing the Bible, and I think the question I've raised with John is a very good question, and I think many will agree that your answer doesn't make any sense.
Maybe other Muslims would say it doesn't make sense, but every Christian who I've ever heard comment on those verses believes it's the Holy Spirit.

FerventGodSeeker
 

kai

ragamuffin
john may or may not be speaking of the holy spirit but i dont think moses is talking of jesus for the reasons i have already given,there was no messiah principle then no line of david .it must be contemporary to the writer
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Sorry, but it seemed that I have lost track of this thread.

Why on earth are we talking about the Holy Spirit? I don't think the Holy Spirit is a prophet.

Did the Muhammad as the "Holy Spirit" conceived Jesus in Mary's womb?

I find that the silliest thing I have ever heard. Well, no one said religion was logical.
 

Smoke

Done here.
beckysoup61 said:
Act 3:22-23 states that Jesus Christ was the one that Moses was talking about.
Not to nitpick, but (proceeds to nitpick) Acts 3 doesn't really say that Jesus was the one Moses was talking about; it says that Peter said Jesus was the one Moses was talking about. (And Stephen said it in Acts 7, too.) There is a difference.
 
MidnightBlue said:
Not to nitpick, but (proceeds to nitpick) Acts 3 doesn't really say that Jesus was the one Moses was talking about; it says that Peter said Jesus was the one Moses was talking about. (And Stephen said it in Acts 7, too.) There is a difference.

You have a point, although generally the sermons given by the apostles such as Peter in Acts are considered to be doctrinally accurate. Peter was an Apostle, and thus his word on doctrine and Scriptural interpretation can be trusted (especially since there was no counter-interpretation by any of the other Apostles to contradict him). Just before Peter said these things, in the beginning of chapter 3, he had just healed a lame man, and thus it can be reasonably assumed that he was divinely empowered and filled with the Holy Spirit, all the more reason to listen to him. With the added testimony of Stephen in Acts 7, and Philip in John 1, there's really no other answer when one looks at the Bible as a whole than to say that Moses was prophesying Christ.

FerventGodSeeker
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
gnostic said:
Sorry, but it seemed that I have lost track of this thread.

Why on earth are we talking about the Holy Spirit? I don't think the Holy Spirit is a prophet.

Did the Muhammad as the "Holy Spirit" conceived Jesus in Mary's womb?

I find that the silliest thing I have ever heard. Well, no one said religion was logical.

How did we get talking about it? Ezzedan got extremley offtopic and went off on a completley unrelated topic.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
You have a point, although generally the sermons given by the apostles such as Peter in Acts are considered to be doctrinally accurate. Peter was an Apostle, and thus his word on doctrine and Scriptural interpretation can be trusted (especially since there was no counter-interpretation by any of the other Apostles to contradict him). Just before Peter said these things, in the beginning of chapter 3, he had just healed a lame man, and thus it can be reasonably assumed that he was divinely empowered and filled with the Holy Spirit, all the more reason to listen to him. With the added testimony of Stephen in Acts 7, and Philip in John 1, there's really no other answer when one looks at the Bible as a whole than to say that Moses was prophesying Christ.

FerventGodSeeker

What he said...although my past posts were actually coherent--they probably won't be anymore. At those posts I was on ADD medication, so I was super-focused and coherent.
 

kai

ragamuffin
what happened to this thread it was an interesting discussion any way i am voting for joshua as he is contemporary. those of you who have read my other posts will know that i am not a fan of interpretation of the bible and thats what i found i was doing in this thread thats very interesting , i think i have had what alcoholics call a moment of clarity, i must say since coming to RF i have learnt more in a few weeks than in years
much respect to you all
 

gnostic

The Lost One
This is really off-topic.

I wouldn't real know much about the Messianic prophecies in the OT, and have not investigate in anyway, but didn't the Messianic phenomena came about, during the time of their return from exile in Babylon?

They didn't have a king, so they desire an ideal king from David's line.

To me, Moses' new prophet seemed to have very little to do with a Messiah. Again, I don't understand why we are getting so sidetracked.

On the Islamic front, I don't think a promise of new prophet have anything to do with one last prophet, thus your Muhammad. It does speak of any last prophet, but a prophet who would lead the Israelites. It doesn't have anything to do with Arabs, or more precisely, Ishmaelites, or starting a new religion.
 
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