Moses' new prophet

[gnostic]

Who do you think is Moses' promised prophet in Deuteronomy 18?

 

[Bishka]

Who do you think is Moses' promised prophet in Deuteronomy 18?

Funny enough, we just discussed this today in my Old Testament class..

My teacher (and I agree) said it could be a number of people, it could be Joshua or any of the prophets following Joshua or It could be John the Baptist or (and this next one, please remember it's an LDS standpoint) we believe it could refer to Joseph Smith or any of the prophets of our Church.

 

[gnostic]

Sorry, Becky.

The message got posted 1st before the poll was posted. This is the 1st time, I've tried to set up a poll. I was hoping they would both appear at the same time.

 

[Bishka]

Okay, I wish you'd have a choice:

"Could be any of the prophets that came after Moses" that's the one I would pick. I don't have a definite answer on this one. If I were to say, who was Moses next prophet going to be, I'd say Joshua.

But if he was prophesying past Joshua, I'm not sure who I would say.

 

[gnostic]

What do you 18:15 is saying?

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet from among your own people, like myself; him you shall

He repeat himself a bit more.

I will raise up a prophet for them from among their own people, like yourself: I will put My words in his mouth and he will speak to them all that I command him;

Who do you think it was meant? And why?

 

[Bishka]

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet from among your own people, like myself; him you shall

I believe this one is possibly talking about the Israelites

I will raise up a prophet for them from among their own people, like yourself: I will put My words in his mouth and he will speak to them all that I command him;

This one could also, but I do believe this may be a prophecy of the Latter-days.

 

[Smoke]

I voted "none of them" because I'm not much of a believer in foretelling the future. However, I think it would be rather satisfying to think of Jesus as that prophet.

More realistically, I think the Deuteronomist -- or the person who edited the Deuteronomist -- probably had somebody in mind who was a contemporary or had lived in the recent past. So I'd tend to dismiss John the Baptist, Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, and the prophet "yet to come" out of hand as being entirely outside this writer's frame of reference. I'd also dismiss Joshua, Samuel, Elijah, and Elisha as being too far in the past for this writer and not directly relevant to his way of thinking. I'd dismiss Daniel as being unhistorical.

I'd see First Isaiah as too early, Second Isaiah as probably too late. That leaves Jeremiah and Ezekiel, and either one is possible, but I might tend to lean toward Jeremiah as being the one on the list who is most likely the one intended by the author -- who was certainly not Moses.

Still, as someone who admires Jesus, it's tempting to see Jesus as the "fulfillment" of this prophecy, even though I consider the prophecy itself entirely bogus.

 

[gnostic]

If you read the whole of chapter 18, I believed that both he (Moses) and God have been suggesting the successor, who will lead the people into Canaan, since they were still living in the wilderness.

After all, the whole theme of the Torah or Pentateuch (the 1st five books of the OT) was to promise Abraham (and Isaac and Jacob in the Genesis) a home for his people.

I certainly don't believe it is John the Baptist, Jesus or Muhammad (as the Muslims believe). But the passages are open to wide interpretation, so it is understandable why some Christians and Muslims would use these passages and stretch it to mean something else to promote their religions. Moses' new prophet seemed to be open to wide interpretation, and I am afraid that both Christians and Muslims exploited this outrageously when they quote his passages.

I am great believer in taking the whole Torah into consideration. And not just on those small passages alone.

So what was God promise to Abraham?

He was Promised Land for his (Abraham's) future generations to call home. This was why (and the whole purpose of) freeing the Israelites from slavery in Egypt in the Exodus. The promise wasn't fulfilled yet, because Moses was meant to lead them into Canaan; that job was left on Joshua's shoulder.

Moses has never spoken of any reward for the believers, except the promise of land for the Israelites, not heaven or paradise. The whole theme of the Torah is covenant about the land, so the promise of new prophets promising more than just the land (Canaan) of their forefathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) - of "what was yet to come" that the NT presents - a heavenly kingdom - or even from Muhammad and his version of Paradise, seemed too far-fetched to me.

I believe that the new prophet that was promised by Moses to the Israelites was meant to be his successor - Joshua, and not some future prophets like Elijah, John the Baptist, Jesus, Muhammad or Joseph Smith.


That's the reason why I chose Joshua, instead of any others.

 

[gnostic]

More realistically, I think the Deuteronomist -- or the person who edited the Deuteronomist -- probably had somebody in mind who was a contemporary or had lived in the recent past.

Regardless of when the Deuteronomy was written, the setting is in Moses' time, and the theme is still about getting the Israelites into the Promised Land. As I had said before the whole theme (about the Torah) is about fulfilling God's promise to the trio of patriarchs, not the promise of heavenly rewards, as Christians or Muslims would suggest. They tend to forget about the original covenant.

The original covenant is not about the (Torah) which is translated into the laws. That's is what I considered to be God's 2nd covenant (Ten Commandments) to Moses, not to Abraham.

Jesus offers a completely new covenant for not only just the Israelites/Jews, but for the rest of us. The same goes with Muhammad.

I don't think it is impossible for God to make different covenants with different people in the bible. It seemed that God made a new covenant again, when the Jews were living in exile in Babylon - that they would return to their homes and rebuild the Temple.

But this promise of a new prophet chosen from "among them", seemed to be speaking of Moses' successor who will bring the Israelites finally into the new homes.

 

[Comet]

I am going to vote for Elijah. I think that verse says something about not killing the prophet or killing the false prophets to come...... ehhhh, where's that Bible at? Somebody help me out on this....... I think it says something to that effect. So I am picking Elijah because I think he is the one who was taken into Heaven in a whirlwind or something. So, he was the one who wasn't killed.

 

[Smoke]

Regardless of when the Deuteronomy was written, the setting is in Moses' time, and the theme is still about getting the Israelites into the Promised Land.

The setting is in Moses' time, but the writer was writing for his own time.

I also disagree that the theme is getting the Israelites into the Promised Land. The writer has already mentioned Temple worship and kingship, for instance, in chapters preceding Chapter 18, and neither of those had anything at all to do with "getting the Israelites into the Promised Land." That whole section of Deuteronomy supposes later realities that cannot have been relevant to someone living in Joshua's time, so there's no reason to restrict the prophet to that time, either.

 

[gnostic]

I agreed with you that the Deuteronomy was written much later than the others, but it still need to be taken into proper context, since it has to do with Moses.

My guess is that the Deuteronomy was written or at least composed in the time of David or afterward.

Lot of writings found in the Bible are written about earlier times. The Book of Enoch was written around the 3rd century and 1st century before Christ, but it setting is before the time of Enoch before the Flood. Although you take "when" it was written into consideration, you still have to consider the theme and context of why it was written too.

 

[Comet]

(from the 12 miracles of Elijah)

1- The Drought: (1K.17).
2- Fed by Ravens: (1K.17).
3- Increases the widow's of Serephath meal and oil 1K.17, Lk.4:26)
4- Raises the widow's son (1K.17)
5- Fire from heaven: Victory over the priests of Baal: (1K.18)
6- The Rain comes back: (1K.18)
7- Fed by an angel, twice (1K.19)
8- A gentle whisper of God at mount Sinai, (1K.19)
9- The dogs eat Jezebel (1K.21, 2K.9)
10- Fire from heaven, twice (2K.1)
11- Divides the Jordan River (2K.2)
12- Elijah carried by a whirlwind into heaven, following a chariot of fire (2K.2)


Okay- He did some of the same wonders as Moses. He did some of the same miracles that Jesus did after him. Plus, he fits all the criteria: Deuteronomy 18: 18-22 (found the ole Bible)

So that is who I voted for and why. Seems to me the great prophets don't come back to back, but once in a while. I think there are places in the NT where Elijah is seen with Moses, John the Baptist is thought to have his spirit, and Jesus talks to Peter about who people think he is (or something) and one of the people he says is "Elijah".

Oh course, this is from a non-Christian perspective! Yet, it is a debate so I thought I'd back up my answer a bit!!!

 

[gnostic]

My perspective is also "of non-Christian".

 

[Mister Emu]

Jesus.

Moses - Biblically freed the Israelites from egyptian slavery, led Israel into a covenant with God

Jesus - Biblically freed us from sin, led us into the new and everlasting covenant with God.

 

[Smoke]

I agreed with you that the Deuteronomy was written much later than the others, but it still need to be taken into proper context, since it has to do with Moses.

Well, I'm not satisfied with that answer at all.

This discourse which is put into Moses' mouth doesn't necessarily concern Moses' time, or even Joshua's, at all. The mention of the temple and kingship ought to make that perfectly clear.

Moreover, I don't think Joshua fits the description of a prophet "like unto me." I don't think the Deuteronomist could have imagined in his wildest dreams that Joshua was comparable to Moses, but he may well have imagined that Jeremiah (or someone like that), speaking at a pivotal time in Israel's history, was comparable to Moses.

However, your insistence on Joshua would be interesting from a Christian perspective, since many Christians see Joshua as a "type" of Jesus. (They even have the same name.) Plenty of material there for a Christian exegete to run with.

 

[Comet]

My perspective is also "of non-Christian".

Obvious by your name and some would say you haven't had a "Christian" perspective till...................

Mr. Emu?

 

[Bishka]

Obvious by your name and some would say you haven't had a "Christian" perspective till...................

Mr. Emu?

Are you saying that Mr. Emu's was the only Christian perspective?

 

[Comet]

Are you saying that Mr. Emu's was the only Christian perspective?

If you have read some of my other posts (here and there) and know that I read but didn't post in the "Why aren't LDS considered Christians" thread.........

The "SOME WOULD SAY" refers not to me at all As far as I am concerned, you are just as Christian as any denomination of Christianity itself. As your vote of "Jesus" reassures me of! Afterall, only a Christian would be so quick to jump to that name over all the others

 

[Bishka]

If you have read some of my other posts (here and there) and know that I read but didn't post in the "Why aren't LDS considered Christians" thread.........

The "SOME WOULD SAY" refers not to me at all As far as I am concerned, you are just as Christian as any denomination of Christianity itself. As your vote of "Jesus" reassures me of! Afterall, only a Christian would be so quick to jump to that name over all the others

I know you didn't post there, it just seemed it my drug-induced state(i'm on prescrption drugs that aren't reacting too well right now) that you called Mr. Emu's comment the only Christian perspective, correct me if I'm wrong.