"Many Paths To God"?

[capumetu]

The earth is still here, the earth that will be burned up is the people sir, remember the flood, the earth was not destroyed then, nor will it ever be

I said one, not flood me with examples, lets take one at a time.

 

[sojourner]

Name one

The two creation stories. The resurrection accounts of Mark and John. The genealogies of Jesus. There are three for you. Now you’re going to perform a mushing together of these accounts and perform a bit of Trumpesque gaslighting, telling me that, somehow, these are all cohesive stories. We scholars know that is not the case.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The earth is still here, the earth that will be burned up is the people sir, remember the flood, the earth was not destroyed then, nor will it ever be

I said one, not flood me with examples, lets take one at a time.

Our sun is a star on the main sequence. It will swallow up this planet and totally destroy it.

In any case, your argument does absolutely nothing to deny the contradiction -- except to pretend that the word "earth" means one thing in one verse, and something else in another. There is nothing in those verses to support that, so it must come from your own eisegis -- you're reading it in to make it fit your viewpoint.

The contradiction remains.

 

[sojourner]

Jehovah identified the path as I clearly posted, if you do not meet all those qualifications, then God has invalidated you sir. Not hard to understand

“Jehovah’s” sphere of influence extends only so far as those who hold that particular belief, and adhere to that particular cultural expression. Other expressions of Divinity identify other paths. Again: you have failed to adequately invalidate other paths.

 

[sojourner]

False.

In any case, I find your "assignment" quite despicable, as what it really is about is stripping people's beliefs from them, and supplanting them with your own. I really despise that sort of thing.

The “assignment” is a study in religious entitlement — not in how to love others.

 

[sojourner]

That is what separates us sir, Religiously speaking all peoples are separated into 2 groups. You acceptance and adherence to the Kingdom messages determines which group you will be in.

This stands in stark contrast to the message of Matthew. Although you will refuse to understand that and, instead do more gaslighting designed to dismiss solid exegetical scholarship.

 

[capumetu]

The two creation stories. The resurrection accounts of Mark and John. The genealogies of Jesus. There are three for you. Now you’re going to perform a mushing together of these accounts and perform a bit of Trumpesque gaslighting, telling me that, somehow, these are all cohesive stories. We scholars know that is not the case.

What is a contradiction sir? Pick one and reveal your thoughts.

 

[capumetu]

Our sun is a star on the main sequence. It will swallow up this planet and totally destroy it.

In any case, your argument does absolutely nothing to deny the contradiction -- except to pretend that the word "earth" means one thing in one verse, and something else in another. There is nothing in those verses to support that, so it must come from your own eisegis -- you're reading it in to make it fit your viewpoint.

The contradiction remains.

You may very well be correct, but I don't think so, obviously this will be answered by time alone

 

[sojourner]

What is a contradiction sir? Pick one and reveal your thoughts.

Read the two genealogies. They are different lists of names. IOW, they contradict each other.

 

[metis]

Read the two genealogies. They are different lists of names. IOW, they contradict each other.

One area where this is obvious deals with the accounts of the women at the tomb whereas no two gospel accounts match. However, this might also be a strong point as the scribes and monks didn't "cheat" and change the stories so as they would match.

 

[capumetu]

Read the two genealogies. They are different lists of names. IOW, they contradict each other.

Because most rejected the Christ, and that is why they killed him, if his recorded genealogy had been incorrect do you not think that would have been an issue in the first century sir? The lists recorded in the Bible were surely taken from established records of the day. Just because some call me Bob and others Robert, or Frank, doesn't mean I am a different person, the fact is all those are my name. I submit it is your lack of knowledge of the record that comes into play, of course you may be correct in your assumption, time will reveal if you are correct or not.

 

[Muffled]

I believe it is the path that Jesus provided but that was for the religious Dispensation of Jesus, not for this Dispensation.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

I believe that by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is now according to the Revelation of Baha'u'llah.

I believe that every time God sends a new Messenger (Manifestation), His Revelation supersedes all the Revelations that have come before it. The divine ordering of the affairs of the world can be only according to one Manifestation at a time. Once a Manifestation of God has completed His Mission on earth and revealed scriptures, what He revealed is pertinent only until the next Manifestation of God appears; and then He completes His Mission and His scriptures are pertinent until the next Manifestation of God appears.

But of course you are not a Baha'i so I do not expect you to see it that way.

I believe there is no salvation through the B man.

 

[Muffled]

The end of what?

I believe that would be the end of the world as we know it and the beginning of eternal life.

 

[Muffled]

How it works is very complicated. Please see the below link and excerpts .

Mitzvot

"In the Torah there are 613 Mitzvot, and in this chapter we shall take a closer look at the nature of the Mitzvot and their utility as a benefit to man, as a tool to refine the creation, and a medium to connect man to G‑d."

"Although Torah and Mitzvot have been given for the benefit of Man and the refining of the Creation, there is an infinitely greater quality with which G‑d has endowed the Mitzvot. This is the quality of uniting Man with G‑d, for by giving Man a set of Mitzvot to carry out in his daily life, G‑d has made it possible for Man to thereby attach himself to his Creator and transcend the limitations of time and space."

"Each Mitzvah evokes a particular response commensurate with that commandment. When we give to charity, G‑d stretches forth His hand to bestow kindness upon the world. When we look compassionately at the less fortunate, He looks compassionately at us and the world around us. In fact, whatever G‑d commands us to do in the Torah, He does Himself. A similar Divine reaction is evoked when we abstain from prohibited acts. For example, when a person suppresses his urge to gossip, the forces of evil are subdued. Even the smallest subjugation of the Sitra Achra causes a great diffusion of Divine Light in all the worlds.

The Divine Light one draws upon oneself through fulfillment of Mitzvot is called the Shechinah. When one studies Torah, his soul and the two inner garments of speech and thought are absorbed within the Divine Light, causing the Shechinah to rest upon his Divine soul. But in order for the Shechinah to rest upon his body and Nefesh HaBehamit, to fulfill the purpose of Dirah BeTachtonim, it is necessary to fulfill the practical Mitzvot performed by the body itself in deed. In this way the actual power of the body engaged in this act is absorbed into the Divine Light and will and unites with Him in perfect unity. As previously mentioned, this explains why Mitzvah performance takes priority over learning Torah if the commandment cannot be done by anyone else."

"The deepest level of Mitzvah performance is not so much to cleave to G‑d and emulate His ways, which is a natural desire of the Nefesh Elokit, but is rather the act of total connection with the Divine will itself."

I believe Jesus negates that when He says this: Mat. 7:22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness

 

[sojourner]

Because most rejected the Christ, and that is why they killed him, if his recorded genealogy had been incorrect do you not think that would have been an issue in the first century sir? The lists recorded in the Bible were surely taken from established records of the day. Just because some call me Bob and others Robert, or Frank, doesn't mean I am a different person, the fact is all those are my name. I submit it is your lack of knowledge of the record that comes into play, of course you may be correct in your assumption, time will reveal if you are correct or not.

It wasn’t an issue in the first century because both texts in which the genealogies appear were not universally available to all. The authors likely did not know each other, and they came from completely different communities. Further, the differences aren’t just derivations of the same names; they are wholly different lists. Additionally, the lists are theological statements, not historical records.

I submit that it is your lack of knowledge of the gospels, how they were created, where they come from, and their intended audiences, as well as what they are saying that comes into play in your “assessment.”

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe there is no salvation through the B man.

I believe that individual salvation was through Jesus but the salvation of the whole world will be through Baha'u'llah.

“Wert thou to consider, for but a little while, the outward works and doings of Him Who is the Eternal Truth, thou wouldst fall down upon the ground, and exclaim: O Thou Who art the Lord of Lords! I testify that Thou art the Lord of all creation, and the Educator of all beings, visible and invisible. I bear witness that Thy power hath encompassed the entire universe, and that the hosts of the earth can never dismay Thee, nor can the dominion of all peoples and nations deter Thee from executing Thy purpose. I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 243

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe that would be the end of the world as we know it and the beginning of eternal life.

I do not believe that this world will end but rather that it will be rebuilt, brick by brick.
That process has already begun and the changes have been accelerated by the pandemic.
That is why Jesus asked is to pray for the Kingdom of God to come on earth.
The Kingdom will come when people build it, it won't magically appear.
Yes, it will be the end of this world as we know it and it will be a whole new beginning.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7

I believe that eternal life is another matter which is related to the immortality of the spirit in the next world, although we can also have eternal life in this world if we are close to God.

When Jesus referred to eternal life, but He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God, and we can have eternal life both in this world and in the next world (the spiritual world).

All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not life of the physical body.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

All souls continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls have eternal life (everlasting life). Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2” Some Answered Questions, p. 223

“Likewise, the rewards of the other world are the eternal life which is clearly mentioned in all the Holy Books, the divine perfections, the eternal bounties and everlasting felicity….The rewards of the other world are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 224-225

Those people who are distant from God do not have eternal life, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.” Some Answered Questions, p. 243

 

[capumetu]

It wasn’t an issue in the first century because both texts in which the genealogies appear were not universally available to all. The authors likely did not know each other, and they came from completely different communities. Further, the differences aren’t just derivations of the same names; they are wholly different lists. Additionally, the lists are theological statements, not historical records.

I submit that it is your lack of knowledge of the gospels, how they were created, where they come from, and their intended audiences, as well as what they are saying that comes into play in your “assessment.”

I am definitely an infant in the truth for sure sir, but I will say this, if the Bible contradicts, then it is not inspired of God, what hope would we have, we simply would be an unorganized group of chaos. I openly admit that all Bible translations contain errors, but I do not think they are so severe that you cannot find out God's requirements for salvation, as well as having all the information necessary to come to know Him.

 

[sojourner]

I am definitely an infant in the truth for sure sir, but I will say this, if the Bible contradicts, then it is not inspired of God, what hope would we have, we simply would be an unorganized group of chaos. I openly admit that all Bible translations contain errors, but I do not think they are so severe that you cannot find out God's requirements for salvation, as well as having all the information necessary to come to know Him.

Why would contradiction indicate that inspiration is lacking? The Bible was written by many human beings, edited, told, and canonized by many human beings — each with a unique perspective. The Bible was never intended to be one book with one clear and concise message, from one theological perspective. It was never meant as the one source for knowledge about God. It was not meant to be an instruction book. I think it’s this confusion of yours that does not come from God, and that causes a contradiction between what the Bible is, and what you wish it to be.

 

[janesix]

Well?

Please explain your logic besides what you may believe.

It seems to me God reveals himself in a way you as an individual will understand.