Loki

[Nietzsche]

That would be perfect, actually. I'm actually quite the music junkie, in small part because it somehow obliterates the barrier between language and my native thought process.

Assuming it's not just bad, of course. For metal, Savatage is just about my favorite band, but I'm good with most anyone who sings more than screams.

Try that.

 

[Storm]

Try that.

Will do asap. Thanks.

 

[Whiterain]

According to one of the sites I have bookmarked, even Thor is 3/4 Jotunn. Bestla was Jotunn, making Odin 1/2 Jotunn. Jord is Jotunn, hence Thor being 3/4 Jotunn. Magni and Modi are in turn something like 7/8 Jotunn, which [I think] is probably why Magni is even stronger than his father. There's a certain irony in Odin complaining that Thor gave Hrungnir's horse to Magni, the son of a giantess.

From what I can interpret they were giants by human standards gigantic... The metaphysical idea of a God is what is confusing although I am quite certain they were physical giants in pre-history. I can't back up any of it but it is what I interpret from the mind and what I've put together... Even though a metaphysical experience is how I came to this conclusion - most of the Gods, Tor in particular is a giant, or half giant; by the standard enormous.

Immortality is been made outlandish and subject of mockery including faith or belief in such beings but the idea of immortality to me is quite reasonable. Then there's the metaphysical which has welcomed me into the presibous of madness, just absolute madness... It's nearly impossible to commit to what the minds eye leads you to believe, no matter how convincing - it's out of an understood norm - total delusion.

This is also how I've come to try and understand the experience with the metaphysical "Gods" - Loki in particular even though it was requested I don't mention it in the first place, from the mind.. Talking about it will ruin your life, unfortunately, you're just mad, insane - schizophrenic and delusional and also transpires strife and jealousy, but ridicule and misery more over. It's simpler to maintain a reserve on the subject than spill your guts about your second life.

They're ghosts, but inconceivably more powerful. - Maybe that is a God, not just an Immortal.

Moving on to genetics - the enforcement of monotheism in the Northern territories, Catholicism in particular - if you were relating to the old gods, related beyond the point you were persecuted or executed in the ultimate display of inhumanity. Then the movement of Christ leaves me ultimately puzzled because my meditations with these entities left me behooved to respect him.

It's unreasonable to even try and say they are merciless about it even though they may seem sympathetic, better people have suffered for their faith and loyalty.

It's not in the realm of modern ideologies of logic and reason; which seems ignorant in itself from my point of view but understandable as well. It's best just to maintain a reserve on the subject.

Other than that,

After Loki was physically killed it's like only the God was left, from my interpretation.

Like Lord Alcaeus, Heracles... But there is proof missing there, archaeologists need to procure a few centaur... sigh...

The compounds of my mind left me sounding absurd and more than outrageous, I'll be far more meek in the future.


As far as the Dragon legends I do not think they were translations of the same tale.

I think Thor, Donar, Zeus, Jupiter, Indra and YHWH are different pantheons of Gods. Even though they share relationships in legends - they slew different beasts.

I think Zeus and Jupiter are related, half-brothers?

And I think The Tyranis/Taranis, Tyr is Jupiter - not Zeus or Tor; maybe it's Zeus they seem different but related - in my mind.

I don't believe they were Archdemons; coming out, man... They are archdemons "TDz86" from people.. It's frustrating... How can you turn every other deity into a demon?

Cheers and Merry Christmas.

 

[Salek Atesh]

I think Zeus and Jupiter are related, half-brothers?

And I think The Tyranis/Taranis, Tyr is Jupiter - not Zeus or Tor; maybe it's Zeus they seem different but related - in my mind.

Historically speaking, Tyr, Jupiter, and Zeus were one. The Proto Indo Europeans worshipped one "Dyeus Phtar". As the PIEs spread out and their language evolved "Dyeus Phtar" became "Ju Piter", and Dyeus became "Zeus" and "Tiwaz", "Tiwaz" later becoming "Tyr". Linguistically speaking, Jupiter, Zeus, Tyr (and a host of other gods) are language variations of the same original god.

 

[Storm]

Historically speaking, Tyr, Jupiter, and Zeus were one. The Proto Indo Europeans worshipped one "Dyeus Phtar". As the PIEs spread out and their language evolved "Dyeus Phtar" became "Ju Piter", and Dyeus became "Zeus" and "Tiwaz", "Tiwaz" later becoming "Tyr". Linguistically speaking, Jupiter, Zeus, Tyr (and a host of other gods) are language variations of the same original god.

No more than Rome, Greece, and Scandinavia were one civilization, or humans, gorillas and bonobos are one species, no. A common line of descent does not trump obvious differentiation.

 

[Salek Atesh]

No more than Rome, Greece, and Scandinavia were one civilization, or humans, gorillas and bonobos are one species, no. A common line of descent does not trump obvious differentiation.

?? Human differentiation on the same entity means the one has become three?? I'm not sure I follow the logic. Is Old Norse Tiwaz the same as more modern Tyr?? Where does the line get drawn in differentiation??

 

[Storm]

?? Human differentiation on the same entity means the one has become three?? I'm not sure I follow the logic. Is Old Norse Tiwaz the same as more modern Tyr?? Where does the line get drawn in differentiation??

Well, it is your logic... You're the one said they were the same ("historically speaking, [they] were one").

I'm saying that you're vastly overstating the significance of a common origin.

 

[The Hammer]

Can't remember if this has been mentioned yet, but Loki has no counterpart in the other Germanic or even Indo-European faiths. Which makes perfect sense for a trickster deity who can best be described as "the first internet troll" when he's in a bad mood. Of course he just pops in out of nowhere. That's just what Loki does.

As I mentioned in chat though. Loki does have a counterpart in Native American religious views; Raven, the Trickster God. Then there is Wisakedjak of Algonquin myth, or Nanabozho of the Ojibwe mythology.

Now, the last 2 are in Native American culture in the Northeastern portions of Canada, so these by sheer proximity to the northern Europe, may have had a cross cultural effect, considering the Vikings were well traveled seafarers.

 

[Whiterain]

As I mentioned in chat though. Loki does have a counterpart in Native American religious views; Raven, the Trickster God. Then there is Wisakedjak of Algonquin myth, or Nanabozho of the Ojibwe mythology.

Now, the last 2 are in Native American culture in the Northeastern portions of Canada, so these by sheer proximity to the northern Europe, may have had a cross cultural effect, considering the Vikings were well traveled seafarers.

I absolutely believe Loki was worshipped by the Indigenous peoples of the Americas - Mayans included. The Native American's worshipped, "The Great Wolf" as well... There's a giant serpent mound in Ohio as well... But the Americas were host to giant serpents centuries ago, perhaps it still is.

My thinking pattern is far outside of contemporary concepts of reason and logic, I believe modern concepts simply shelter the mind from the realms of possibility - but it is an understandable approach to our idea of "sanity"... My delusions mock my sanity and ask is it sanity? It's ****ing hilarious.

I think this is Tiwaz, Jupiter... Zeus.

Its the "Martyr" in the catacombs, it just made me think of Jupiter or Zeus.


Derailing

 

[Storm]

Try that.

I've not had the chance to listen all the way through as yet, but the bits I have played are quite beautiful. Thank you.

 

[Whiterain]

It difficult to try and make sense out of what you're taught is irrational by most standards, you just sound insane. What I put together with my imaginary acquaintances makes me sound considerably insane and even I am offended. Trying to make sense of the gods and the coming of monotheism - then Catholicism is an undertaking.

I'll work on this abomination a little more and possibly present it at a later date.


That means never.

 

[Whiterain]

Bump, What about him?

 

[jeager106]

Is Loki related to Floki of the Vikings series?
LOVE them Vikings.
Any connection to the t-v characters and real Viking Mythical Gods?

 

[Jainarayan]

Is Loki related to Floki of the Vikings series?
LOVE them Vikings.
Any connection to the t-v characters and real Viking Mythical Gods?

Floki afaik is a fictional character in the series. He claims descent from Loki. There are only two instances I know of in the time I've watched the show of anything to do with the gods:

1. Harbard the wanderer was assumed to be Odin. Harbard is a name of Odin, and Odin does wander about in Midgard (Earth).
2. When the alliance was made with Mercia, the sacrifice of the cow that Lagertha led as gydja (priestess) was a sacrifice to Freyr for good harvests. Freyr is the god of harvest and the bounty of the Earth. I was able to catch a few words that did sound like Old Norse.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Loki is fascinating. Not fully "good", not fully "evil" - regardless of what Christianized sources might tell you. Just as Thor embodies thunder, and there is Thor wherever thunder is heard, so too does Loki embody change, surprise, disruption and deception. Sometimes these forces can be positive. They bring us joy, or help us to find a new perspective after (or through) hardship and confusion. He is Odin's blood brother for a reason. Other times, the dominion of Loki can bring emotional and physical devastation, as represented by his monstrous and world-devouring children. (Still, I wouldn't call Fenris or Jormungandr "evil" - "primally destructive" is a better term. Was Hurricane Katrina "evil"?)

I often see Loki's nature reflected in the people I know and the circumstances of my life. Often that's in the context of people who act like dishonest pricks, or weird coincidental happenstances. However, lately Loki has been more relatable for me. I'm at the center of some mental health-related drama in my social circle that's drawing fault lines among my friends and family. I can really identify with Loki and his role among the Æsir - it makes sense that some find comfort in worshipping him. There's also often a "Lokean" atmosphere in the class of children I'm assistant teaching for. They're completely wild and out of control, always running off in a bajillion different directions. When they interrupt each other and get into petty fights, it can make it quite the uphill battle to get anything done. But when they channel their sheer energy and weirdness constructively, the results are beautiful and hilarious - like battling devourers with drag, or birthing an eight-legged horse for your blood brother.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I'm pale a pink as it gets, and I've got a significant Greek blood. ... Then again, that's probably because I'm a night owl and never go outside.

Me too!

 

[Whiterain]

A resurrection...

Whatcha know about him?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Can't remember if this has been mentioned yet, but Loki has no counterpart in the other Germanic or even Indo-European faiths. Which makes perfect sense for a trickster deity who can best be described as "the first internet troll" when he's in a bad mood. Of course he just pops in out of nowhere. That's just what Loki does.

We know that Loki's father was Fárbauti ('cruel striker' = lightning) and his mother Laufey ('leafy'?). Lightning strikes leaves/trees, makes wildfire (Loki). And wildfire is anything but predictable. If Angrboða (Loki's wife) is Iárnvidia, 'she of iron-wood', we have wildfire + woods = potential devastation (aka Hel, Fenrir and Jormungandr).

Loki does have a local counterpart, from the Rhine-Moselle region of western Europe, Loucetios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loucetios. Notice that Loucetios was worshipped alongside Nemetona, 'she of the sacred grove'.

But yes, (in my opinion also) ultimately the same figure as many of the tricksters around the world.

 

[Whiterain]

We must make no assumptions or speak in riddle...

People just get mad and get ready to crucify somebody.


What may Loki be canon too? Put foolishness aside.

 

[Whiterain]

I don't know what to say than ignorance has persisted...

Like, the practices have laid out in various cultures, between Eastern and Western... The Ignorance lay in-between.... Contemporary monotheism and religions...

I AM Gautama Buddha Siddhārtha . I didn't want to be or was I Hindu... I was "Aryan."...

You see... The AEsir were the Arab Caucasaisns... And Gautama was an Aryan prince gone Loco... His Father Ida...

HIS FATHER WAS IDA....


I'm a cynic.

Trying to recollect further lectures...

Don't shoot me in the stomach. The Japanese aren't wrong with their cartoons.