One thing I can say is that it's a real job keeping names straight and attached to the right deity or being. I have some links that are good cheat sheets.
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Loki
- Thread starter Whiterain
- Start date
It's not that difficult if you take the time to learn the languages. Once you've done that, you'll notice the separate pieces of the names and realize that they later went on to form modern words. For instance, the Continental Germanic for 'Thor' was Donar. In German today, "Donner" is "Lightning". This works with 99.9% of the names.
Reading the various Runnic scripts isn't that difficult either.
What I mean is keeping the names of the characters in stories straight. For example, the story Hrungnir is in; Thyrm (actually you can't forget that
); Grimnismal; Hymir. I've gotten them now, but in the beginning... hoo wee!!! boy howdy!!! They were hard to get a handle on and know who was who.Going back to the linguistics of it, I find that what I'm seeing of Old Norse is not as difficult as one might think. When you parse out the words it's easy enough to get the meaning. Especially with similar namings, like ending with mál or ljóð you know it's a story, a tale or sayings.
I'm starting to get the runes, especially because I am drawing them, and reading their meanings. It doesn't take that long to learn them. I deciphered the runes that run around the bottom of my Thor statue. Granted, it's English written in futhark. It's what's in my sig.
Interesting thing about Runes;What I mean is keeping the names of the characters in stories straight. For example, the story Hrungnir is in; Thyrm (actually you can't forget that
Going back to the linguistics of it, I find that what I'm seeing of Old Norse is not as difficult as one might think. When you parse out the words it's easy enough to get the meaning. Especially with similar namings, like ending with mál or ljóð you know it's a story, a tale or sayings.
I'm starting to get the runes, especially because I am drawing them, and reading their meanings. It doesn't take that long to learn them. I deciphered the runes that run around the bottom of my Thor statue. Granted, it's English written in futhark. It's what's in my sig.
Ever wondered why there's no round letters? It's because they tended to be carved into wood & stone, and in the case of wood going with the grain or diagonally was far easier than trying to curve it. And since the wood carvings likely came first, it was just carried over into the stone-work.
DayRaven
Beyond the wall
Try and get Stephen Pollington's Rudiments of Runelore. It's probably the best intro out there. It sticks to what we know about the runes without being overly academic.
Yep, I have indeed read that.
Thanks, I'll look for it. I already have Edred Thorsson's Futhark: A Handbook of Rune Magic but I haven't really gotten into it.
Thanks, I'll look for it. I already have Edred Thorsson's Futhark: A Handbook of Rune Magic but I haven't really gotten into it.
Whiterain
Get me off of this planet
Excellent replies, thank you...
Can you share your visual interpretations of him?
I recently watched, "The Man who Laughs", (Batman soundtrack), learning it was the inspiration for Batman's Joker, strangely a character I knew was of the same archetype and effigy as Loki, although that is not his character in totality.
Conrad Veidt's quite phenomenal,
If you haven't seen, "The Man who Laughs" you're no occultist at all!
The "psychotic" part of his personality is a mere crescendo of his psyche, I think, he is also an unmatched warrior, which goes unsated - he is not often enough depicted much more masculine.
Rob Zombie's on point
Not really how I "see" Loki but I thought it was interesting.
Edit:
Trying to learn about Heimdallr is interesting but confusing.
You're left with the realm of your imagination with comparison and argument.
As far as Loki being the All Father, I do not think they are the same deity.
Although in my comprehension Loki does seem older than Odin, but, they are not the same deity, from my interpretation. Loki even seems far older than Odin. Tiwaz remains a mystery but I do not think he is exactly Jupiter or Zeus. - Nor is Donar or Thor, which may be separate deities as well. - Thor seeming to have multiple counterparts.
I do believe the bloodline of Thor is alive today in the living clan of Eric the Red - even though there are also the clans of Thor and Odin - Sons and Daughters today.
But the Clans of "Lok"i I have no idea - but they may be related.
Trying to avoid a realm of madness is a challenge as well.
Cheers!
Can you share your visual interpretations of him?
I recently watched, "The Man who Laughs", (Batman soundtrack), learning it was the inspiration for Batman's Joker, strangely a character I knew was of the same archetype and effigy as Loki, although that is not his character in totality.
Conrad Veidt's quite phenomenal,
If you haven't seen, "The Man who Laughs" you're no occultist at all!
The "psychotic" part of his personality is a mere crescendo of his psyche, I think, he is also an unmatched warrior, which goes unsated - he is not often enough depicted much more masculine.
Rob Zombie's on point
Not really how I "see" Loki but I thought it was interesting.
Edit:
Trying to learn about Heimdallr is interesting but confusing.
You're left with the realm of your imagination with comparison and argument.
As far as Loki being the All Father, I do not think they are the same deity.
Although in my comprehension Loki does seem older than Odin, but, they are not the same deity, from my interpretation. Loki even seems far older than Odin. Tiwaz remains a mystery but I do not think he is exactly Jupiter or Zeus. - Nor is Donar or Thor, which may be separate deities as well. - Thor seeming to have multiple counterparts.
I do believe the bloodline of Thor is alive today in the living clan of Eric the Red - even though there are also the clans of Thor and Odin - Sons and Daughters today.
But the Clans of "Lok"i I have no idea - but they may be related.
Trying to avoid a realm of madness is a challenge as well.
Cheers!
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The Joker, especially Nolan's interpretation of him, is very much a Loki-like character. He's not just a terrorist, he's a force of nature, the essence of chaos.Excellent replies, thank you...
Can you share your visual interpretations of him?
I recently watched, "The Man who Laughs", (Batman soundtrack), learning it was the inspiration for Batman's Joker, strangely a character I knew was of the same archetype and effigy as Loki, although that is not his character in totality.
Conrad Veidt's quite phenomenal,
If you haven't seen, "The Man who Laughs" you're no occultist at all!
The "psychotic" part of his personality is a mere crescendo of his psyche, I think, he is also an unmatched warrior, which goes unsated - he is not often enough depicted much more masculine.
Rob Zombie's on point
Not really how I "see" Loki but I thought it was interesting.
"Some men just want to watch the world burn."
Perkuns is what the Slavs called their Thunder God, who carried a double-headed axe. Interestingly, one interpretation of Thor is that one half Mjolnir is a hammer and the other is a blade.
Interesting you mention genealogy. I've traced my lineage faaaar back and according to the practices of the era I am supposedly descended from Odin. If you go back far enough anyway.
It can be, but what was a major help for me was that we actually do have a solid starting foundation staring at us right in the face: modern Western culture and the English language. Try as they might, Christians just couldn't remove the Old Way from our thoughts; it's right there in our vernacular when we speak of God as some kind of vague Sky Father, and yet speak of Mother Nature in terms of life on the Earth, distinct from God-In-The-Sky. Many of our customs and stories survived in our traditional holiday celebrations, with Hares and Eggs in Easter, dancing round the May Pole at Midsummer (sadly no longer common in the US because of a double-dose of negative associations with socialism during the 1920s Red Scare, and then communism in the 1950s/60s Red Scare), and the more properly named Yuletide Tree with the Winged Being at the top (an angel nowadays, but the Edda speaks of an Eagle that sits at the top of the World Tree).
The Old Way is staring at us right in the face if you know where to look.
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OMG!
I swear on Tiu's Hand that when I said this, I had no idea that Loki actually was the inspiration for the Joker! That's AWESOME!
If you're related to any of the Royal Families of Europe, that is to say, if you're blood-related to what I (based on Beowulf) call the Aetheling Tribe, then according to what I know of the Lore, you're related to Odin.
I, myself, have some relationship to the English noble house Houk (apparently native to Devonshire, which for fellow USfolk is in the Southern part of England... and one of these days I'll know the rough geography of England's areas as well as I roughly know the US's). Not sure if that makes me Aetheling, though. I, myself, don't really care much about blood-genealogy except as a fun little pastime. You're a member of a Tribe if the Tribesmen accept you as one, regardless of whether you're blood-related. As Odin and Loki were Blood-Brothers, despite not being blood-related.
My family is from a formerly noble house in Silesia/Schlesien, so yes.
And it wasn't just Loki & Odin. A good half or more of the Aesir & Vanir were flat-out Jotunns or half-Jotunn.
According to one of the sites I have bookmarked, even Thor is 3/4 Jotunn. Bestla was Jotunn, making Odin 1/2 Jotunn. Jord is Jotunn, hence Thor being 3/4 Jotunn. Magni and Modi are in turn something like 7/8 Jotunn, which [I think] is probably why Magni is even stronger than his father. There's a certain irony in Odin complaining that Thor gave Hrungnir's horse to Magni, the son of a giantess.
And despite all this, you've got National Socialists who say that Odin and the Aesir are about "racial purity" and ****. I'm pretty sure Aesir-Aesir marriage is the exception rather than the rule in these myths!
Btw, not to derail the thread but I have extremely circumstantial evidence to believe that my family is indeed of Norman descent, grandparents and their predecessors being from southern Italy and Sicily notwithstanding. I know physical features are probably the worst gauge of ethnicity, but we have the blond(e), reddish, auburn hair, blue eyes in the family line. Something more telling is that our surname seems to have originated during the Norman invasion of England. It is an occupational title given to a knight in William the Conqueror's inner circle. It's cognate with a very common English name (aw hell... cognate with Princess Diana's maiden name). It made its way to Sicily, perhaps along with Norman settlers, in virtually its original form. I'm trying to scrounge up the $100 for the spit-in-a-vial DNA test. My brothers and sisters don't care enough to pony up to help defray the cost. Maybe I won't tell them who they really are when I get the results, just out of spite (hey, maybe I am Sicilian after all ).
).
Btw, not to derail the thread but I have extremely circumstantial evidence to believe that my family is indeed of Norman descent, grandparents and their predecessors being from southern Italy and Sicily notwithstanding. I know physical features are probably the worst gauge of ethnicity, but we have the blond(e), reddish, auburn hair, blue eyes in the family line. Something more telling is that our surname seems to have originated during the Norman invasion of England. It is an occupational title given to a knight in William the Conqueror's inner circle. It's cognate with a very common English name (aw hell... cognate with Princess Diana's maiden name). It made its way to Sicily, perhaps along with Norman settlers, in virtually its original form. I'm trying to scrounge up the $100 for the spit-in-a-vial DNA test. My brothers and sisters don't care enough to pony up to help defray the cost. Maybe I won't tell them who they really are when I get the results, just out of spite (hey, maybe I am Sicilian after all
Anglic US folks probably all got a degree of Norman in us. And Viking. And Saxon. And British/Welsh. Lots of Irish from the past century. Our ancestors are both invader and invaded. It's a big reason why I don't regard genetic lineage as anywhere approaching important as a lot of people in the Heathen community (even those who aren't as bad as the white supremacists) seem to think it is.
Luckily this topic is fairly easy to relate back to the OP; most refutations of ancestry-exclusive forms of Heathenry (whether folkism or white supremacism) cite Loki and Odin. ^_^ An article I once read asked the incredibly telling question: who is more "true to the Aesir": the European who spends a lot of time and energy in the advocacy of racial purity, or the African who argues about the nature of Loki?
And that, I think, is a major part of Loki's ultimate role: he challenges and breaks down the assumed status quo, and brings to light the truths that we don't want to admit(Lokasenna). This may at first cause a degree of depression (death of Balder), but as the old assumptions eventually just crumble away altogether (Ragnarok), we become even stronger and more secure (rebirth of Balder).
Heh. If the Lore could be more thoroughly reconstructed, you could probably have an entire Darmok-type language around it.
Something I personally like to do when confronted with the Folkists and Supremacists;
The entirety of my line, as far back as I can trace(about 100 or so. The year 100, that is) is...entirely Germanic. No Celt or Gael blood in these veins, I am easily the most pasty-white person you can possibly imagine. Which, by their reckoning, should make me the authority, because my line is direct from the Allfather himself if the lore is to be believed. And I think the racial dick-measuring is just incredibly stupid.
I do that for two reasons- One, I can use their logic against them. I should be the best example they have(certainly better than most, as they're all mutts and half-breeds compared to myself). Two, I get a certain joy when I see the get really, really upset.
Exactly. I don't know what criteria the folkish and *ahem* more extreme followers use to determine "folkness"... what, your name has to be unquestionably Germanic? Here are maps of the influence of the Normans (1st map, red) and Norse (2nd map) in Europe. Indeed, virtually anyone in the US who has English, Irish, southern Italian and Sicilian, Iberian, European Russian background can claim being Folk.
The 2nd map indicates with green little or no Norse settlement, but that doesn't mean there weren't little Vikings appearing 9 months after the last raid.
Good point, one I read elsewhere.
Not everyone has the wisdom or willingness to see this. Some people are too short-sighted, sadly.