Loki

[Riverwolf]

Something I personally like to do when confronted with the Folkists and Supremacists;

The entirety of my line, as far back as I can trace(about 100 or so. The year 100, that is) is...entirely Germanic. No Celt or Gael blood in these veins, I am easily the most pasty-white person you can possibly imagine. Which, by their reckoning, should make me the authority, because my line is direct from the Allfather himself if the lore is to be believed. And I think the racial dick-measuring is just incredibly stupid.

I do that for two reasons- One, I can use their logic against them. I should be the best example they have(certainly better than most, as they're all mutts and half-breeds compared to myself). Two, I get a certain joy when I see the get really, really upset.

NICE!

The argument I typically use is this: Celtic and Germanic (and Aryan, for that matter), aren't racial terms at all. They're linguistic terms. There's no such thing as "the Germanic race"; Germanic Tribes are so-referred because they spoke Germanic languages; same with the Celts. And, seeing as English is a Germanic language, then everyone who speaks English natively, regardless of genetic ancestry or native nationality, is Germanic.

Unfortunately, I'm not one who takes much joy from people getting upset, particularly at me, so I'd most likely just stay silent if confronted by them in public. It hurts too much. Sometimes the hyper-empathy I get from having Asperger's Syndrome really, really sucks...

 

[Jainarayan]

...I am easily the most pasty-white person you can possibly imagine....

Pffft! I make Casper the Friendly Ghost look sunburned.

 

[Riverwolf]

The 2nd map indicates with green little or no Norse settlement, but that doesn't mean there weren't little Vikings appearing 9 months after the last raid.

Dublin, capital of Ireland, was a Viking settlement. ^_^ (Granted, that area is in a red-colored area, but still...)

 

[Riverwolf]

Pffft! I make Casper the Friendly Ghost look sunburned.

I'm pale a pink as it gets, and I've got a significant Greek blood. ... Then again, that's probably because I'm a night owl and never go outside.

 

[Nietzsche]

NICE!

The argument I typically use is this: Celtic and Germanic (and Aryan, for that matter), aren't racial terms at all. They're linguistic terms. There's no such thing as "the Germanic race"; Germanic Tribes are so-referred because they spoke Germanic languages; same with the Celts. And, seeing as English is a Germanic language, then everyone who speaks English natively, regardless of genetic ancestry or native nationality, is Germanic.

If you do just want to go through Germanic races, you'd have to include the following peoples;

West Germanic; German, Dutch, Frisian, English, Anglo-Scot, Anglo-Saxon, Anglo-Frisian.

(Extinct) West Germanic; Lombard

North Germanic; Scandinavian, Faroese, Greenlander, Icelander

(Extinct) East Germanic; Goth, Visigoth, Suebi(Iberia), Crimean-Goth, Burgund, Vandal

Exactly. I don't know what criteria the folkish and *ahem* more extreme followers use to determine "folkness"... what, your name has to be unquestionably Germanic? Here are maps of the influence of the Normans (1st map, red) and Norse (2nd map) in Europe. Indeed, virtually anyone in the US who has English, Irish, southern Italian and Sicilian, Iberian, European Russian background can claim being Folk.

If you look at a map of the movement of Germanic peoples, there are North Africans who could make a good argument that they're Germanic.

Dublin, capital of Ireland, was a Viking settlement. ^_^ (Granted, that area is in a red-colored area, but still...)

The 2nd map indicates with green little or no Norse settlement, but that doesn't mean there weren't little Vikings appearing 9 months after the last raid.

Know how people think of red hair as an Irish trait? It's not. It's a Viking trait. Thor's redheaded for that reason. 'Russia' originally 'Rusland' is named such because it's a corruption of a name that originally meant "Land of the Red-Headed". Wherever you see redheads in Europe, it's more than likely a Norse trait being expressed.

 

[Jainarayan]

Dublin, capital of Ireland, was a Viking settlement. ^_^ (Granted, that area is in a red-colored area, but still...)

There is the overlap with "true" Viking, Norman, the Franks, Vandals and other Germanics. We know that all Scandinavians are Germanic, but not all Germanics are Scandinavian.

Unfortunately, I'm not one who takes much joy from people getting upset, particularly at me, so I'd most likely just stay silent if confronted by them in public. It hurts too much. Sometimes the hyper-empathy I get from having Asperger's Syndrome really, really sucks...

Oh, I take fiendish delight in p'ing off my family (so much for respecting and honoring kin ). Seriously, I'm not sure if I'll reveal to my family what percentage of our DNA comes from where... whether northern Europe, southern Africa, the Arctic Circle, or wherever. For me it's an academic curiosity, OK maybe a bit more than academic curiosity, they don't seem to care.

I'm pale a pink as it gets, and I've got a significant Greek blood. ... Then again, that's probably because I'm a night owl and never go outside.

The funny thing is that right now I could pass for a fluorescent light bulb... in fact I avoid fluorescent lighting because I tend to disappear. But in the summer I can get a decent tan rather quickly. My hair was reddish brown (top is gone, sides are silvery when I don't shave my head), but turned almost blond in the summer. So yeah, physical traits are a poor indicator of genetic origin.

 

[Riverwolf]

Know how people think of red hair as an Irish trait? It's not. It's a Viking trait. Thor's redheaded for that reason. 'Russia' originally 'Rusland' is named such because it's a corruption of a name that originally meant "Land of the Red-Headed". Wherever you see redheads in Europe, it's more than likely a Norse trait being expressed.

Huh. I heard it was meant as "Land of the Rowers"; still in reference to Vikings, but still.

 

[Nietzsche]

Huh. I heard it was meant as "Land of the Rowers"; still in reference to Vikings, but still.

Mm, it is.

But the 'rowers' were also redheaded.

 

[Riverwolf]

There is the overlap with "true" Viking, Norman, the Franks, Vandals and other Germanics. We know that all Scandinavians are Germanic, but not all Germanics are Scandinavian.

Then again, because the Normans spoke French, then even though they were descended from the Franks, they weren't technically Germanic anymore; they were Romantic.

Oh, I take fiendish delight in p'ing off my family (so much for respecting and honoring kin ). Seriously, I'm not sure if I'll reveal to my family what percentage of our DNA comes from where... whether northern Europe, southern Africa, the Arctic Circle, or wherever. For me it's an academic curiosity, OK maybe a bit more than academic curiosity, they don't seem to care.

Heh. I do want to learn how to find joy in other people getting harmlessly upset at my beliefs or well-thought-out arguments. Gonna need that for Youtube.

The funny thing is that right now I could pass for a fluorescent light bulb... in fact I avoid fluorescent lighting because I tend to disappear. But in the summer I can get a decent tan rather quickly. My hair was reddish brown (top is gone, sides are silvery when I don't shave my head), but turned almost blond in the summer. So yeah, physical traits are a poor indicator of genetic origin.

I can't tan at all. See, me and Sun... we don't really get along too well.

 

[Riverwolf]

Mm, it is.

But the 'rowers' were also redheaded.

Yeah, just that the Arabic word "Rus" meant "rower".

Granted, I heard that from a documentary on the Vikings, specifically the BBC one by Niel Oliver.

 

[Jainarayan]

If you look at a map of the movement of Germanic peoples, there are North Africans who could make a good argument that they're Germanic.

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. Did I say absolutley?

Know how people think of red hair as an Irish trait? It's not. It's a Viking trait. Thor's redheaded for that reason. 'Russia' originally 'Rusland' is named such because it's a corruption of a name that originally meant "Land of the Red-Headed". Wherever you see redheads in Europe, it's more than likely a Norse trait being expressed.

Yep, the Rus' (that little apostrophe doohickey bothers me, but oh well... ). And the blond(e)-haired blue-eyed Russians. My nephew's two kids are adopted from Russia... blond(e)-haired and blue-eyed boy and girl. Come to think of it almost all the Russians and other Slavs I've ever known (I was Eastern Orthodox for a while) had light hair, light eyes, and light complexions.

 

[Nietzsche]

Then again, because the Normans spoke French, then even though they were descended from the Franks, they weren't technically Germanic anymore; they were Romantic.

The Normans are more Germanic than that. 'Normandy' got its name because it was a parcel of land the Franks bribed some Vikings with to settle and defend them(the Franks) from other vikings. Norman being a corruption of "Norsemen" or "Northmen".

Apparently, the Wanderlust never fully left the Normans, because a few centuries later a proper *******(as in, illegitimate as myself) looked to the North and across the Channel and said "I want that".

And so he did.

 

[Jainarayan]

Mm, it is.

But the 'rowers' were also redheaded.

Huh. I heard it was meant as "Land of the Rowers"; still in reference to Vikings, but still.

The terms could have become associated and merged into one meaning.

 

[Riverwolf]

The Normans are more Germanic than that. 'Normandy' got its name because it was a parcel of land the Franks bribed some Vikings with to settle and defend them(the Franks) from other vikings. Norman being a corruption of "Norsemen" or "Northmen".

Apparently, the Wanderlust never fully left the Normans, because a few centuries later a proper *******(as in, illegitimate as myself) looked to the North and across the Channel and said "I want that".

And so he did.

Fair enough. I just meant strictly in terms of what language they spoke when William did his thing. Though I did pretty much guess that "Norman" was a corruption of "Northman".

 

[Nietzsche]

The terms could have become associated and merged into one meaning.

It should be mentioned that the stigma against Gingers(redheads for my fellow Americans) is likely a hold-over from the Viking age. Used to the only time someone on the Isles or Western Europe would see a guy with red hair he was holding an axe and demanding your money.

And doing weird stuff like wash himself and his hair. Damn evil pagans.

 

[Jainarayan]

Fair enough. I just meant strictly in terms of what language they spoke when William did his thing. Though I did pretty much guess that "Norman" was a corruption of "Northman".

Yep... Normans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We say that English comes from Latin via French, but it was Norman French... French as spoken by the Normans, a dialect of French which was in turn Latin based on a Gallic and/or Germanic (kind of going full circle) substrate. That Gallic/Germanic substrate is pretty much why modern French sounds so different from the other Romance languages.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yep... Normans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We say that English comes from Latin via French, but it was Norman French... French as spoken by the Normans, a dialect of French which was in turn Latin based on a Gallic and/or Germanic (kind of going full circle) substrate. That Gallic/Germanic substrate is pretty much why modern French sounds so different from the other Romance languages.

I thought it quite fun when I learned that the Irish word for you was the same as French's casual you. (tu) ^_^ I never heard Gallic being called Germanic, though I've heard that Germanic-speaking Tribes did live in Gaul, so it would make sense that the area would have Germanic influences even if it were predominantly Celtic.

 

[Jainarayan]

It should be mentioned that the stigma against Gingers(redheads for my fellow Americans) is likely a hold-over from the Viking age. Used to the only time someone on the Isles or Western Europe would see a guy with red hair he was holding an axe and demanding your money.

And doing weird stuff like wash himself and his hair. Damn evil pagans.

Ah ha! I always wondered why the prejudice against 'gingers'. Personally I think they're sexy.

When I first scouted Jelling Dragon for a horn, I saw in the accessories section "ear spoons" (I had to read further). Now if that's not obsessive-compulsive cleanliness, I don't know what is.

 

[Nietzsche]

Yep... Normans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We say that English comes from Latin via French, but it was Norman French... French as spoken by the Normans, a dialect of French which was in turn Latin based on a Gallic and/or Germanic (kind of going full circle) substrate. That Gallic/Germanic substrate is pretty much why modern French sounds so different from the other Romance languages.

You missed some of the influences.

English is a composite, almost Creole language of the following;

Norse, Anglo-Saxon, Saxon, Frisian, Juttish, Flemish, Dutch, Celt-Latin, Norman-French and some Welsh.

There's probably even more, but that's the gist of it. That's why it's so damn hard for others to learn it. There is no "order" to it. German has rules that apply to all their words. In English, we've got light suggestions that we ignore whenever the mood strikes us.

 

[Jainarayan]

I thought it quite fun when I learned that the Irish word for you was the same as French's casual you. (tu) ^_^ I never heard Gallic being called Germanic, though I've heard that Germanic-speaking Tribes did live in Gaul, so it would make sense that the area would have Germanic influences even if it were predominantly Celtic.

Gallic and Germanic are different. What I mean is I'm not sure if it is a Gallic (which is really Celtic) or Germanic substrate French was built on. Believe it or not, some linguists link Italic and Celtic into one sub-family, seems to be some strong evidence.

Yes, the common pronouns and words in most IE languages are very, very similar, if not identical. Tu is 2nd per. singular "you" in French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese; inflected versions of it are in Sanskrit (ta-, te-, tva-), Hindi and other Indo-Aryan languages; it's "du" in Germanic languages; thou in Middle English ("you" is 2nd per. pl., and polite). "You" is also cognate with vous, voi, vosotros, voce, (inflected) yu- in Sanskrit.

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