Listen while a MAGA preacher in Texas calls for execution of gay people.

[KWED]

Why do you ignore the fact that gay couple needs to adopt a child because they can't make one?

Many straight couples have to adopt because they can't have their own children. You are making literally no sense.

therefore we are talking about already born children.

What other type of child is available for adoption? (Seriously starting to wonder if you are ok)

heterosexual couple simply makes one and there is no way to ask a sperm if it wishes to be born lol, don't be silly and equate these 2 things.

 

[KWED]

No because that child would be a child of straight couple anyway if not adopted.

Do you think the children born to gay people should be taken away from them?

There will be enough time to ask those raised by gay couples whether they liked that or not in the future.
I don't think these people are going to be happy.

Your bigotry blinds you to facts and reason...
"Children of same-sex couples fare better when it comes to physical health and social well-being than children in the general population". https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...pier-and-healthier-than-peers-research-shows/
"researchers find there are many benefits of same-sex parenting" Benefits of Same Sex Parenting
"this research forms an overwhelming scholarly consensus, based on over three decades of peer-reviewed research, that having a gay or lesbian parent does not harm children." What does the scholarly research say about the well-being of children with gay or lesbian parents? | What We Know

for god's sake how do 2 men make a child if not by adoption?

By using a surrogate.
By one or both having children from a previous heterosexual relationship.

 

[paradox]

Your bigotry blinds you to facts and reason...

does truth about what's normal way of life insult you?
is to be normal unreasonable?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsv...phobic_maga_preacher_at_arlington_texas_city/

Even though it's 2022. Listen to people in the room, in Arlington TX, say "uh-huh" and "yep" and "amen."

Calling for death. So Christian.

People like this are a principal reason I am antitheist, by which I mean strenuously opposed to organized, politicized religion exerting cultural hegemony on the culture at large. I basically want everything they do stopped, including recriminalizing abortion, persecuting LGBTQ, attacking science, and in this preacher's case, coming to a public meeting on public policy and reciting biblical passages as if they mattered. I look forward to the day when this religion has no more power or influence than any other in Western society, like the Druids, when what would Jesus say is as irrelevant as what would Dagda (Celtic deity) say?

The crazy thing is that most Jews aren't homophobic, which is good.

Apparently rabbis aren't filling their congregants heads with that hatred, although I'm not as sure about orthodox Judaism, which is often depicted as rigidly judgmental like this Christian preacher. My experience is limited to the media depictions of that community, which I realize might be slanted, but which frequently depicts them as intolerant. The beauty is that those opinions don't matter outside of the orthodox Jewish community and don't influence public policy. Image rabbi Hillel appearing before the same counsel and wanting people punished for not following kosher law or not being circumcised. What would Hillel's god say? It doesn't matter except to people who choose to submit to that.

In their "Bible", Jesus exhorted the crowd to cast stones, murdered the tax collector, said that if someone takes you to court make sure you get their cloak, never turn the other cheek and told people to arm themselves to resist the rule of pagans by force of arms..

There you have it - what Jesus would say. Lovely.

Elsewhere, Jesus does say to turn the other cheek, which I consider to be as poor advice as loving enemies, which is a related idea (it's your enemy that wants access to your other cheek). Turning the other cheek means standing down to physical abuse. It's part of a series of statement that combine to say that one should not resist exploitation. Be meek. Be longsuffering. If stricken, turn the other cheek, for your reward for not resisting awaits you in the afterlife, where you will be an equal living well in a heavenly house of many rooms prepared by your loving Father. Pie in the sky awaits those who don't rise up.

Notice all of the other options available to one when stricken that are overlooked. One can just walk away, or try to negotiate a peace. One can strike back, or at a minimum protect one's face with one's hands from a second blow. But the advice is to stand there and invite further violence on oneself by offering the other cheek. Who gives that advice to somebody they care about? Nobody.

the OT had the death penalty for homosexual behavior and a lot of other things. He cites this, but it’s calling for the city to stop celebrating gay pride stuff. He did not call for gays to be killed.

Perhaps you need to be better attuned to dog whistles. They always include plausible deniability: "Plausible deniability refers to the denial of blame in (formal or informal) chains of command. Senior people may give indirect and vague orders. For example, Henry II "Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?" or even less direct "Someone should do something about that". The intended message is understood."

Why do you suppose that bigoted pastor read those scriptures that command murdering homosexuals? To condemn them? To disavow them? Do you think that his congregants don't know his feelings about what he would like seen done to homosexuals?

Did you also buy his concern for their health and well-being when referring to AIDS? How many other problems afflicting the gay community do you suppose are a burden for him? He sounds like the antiabortion people discussing regret in those who have abortions as if they cared at all about these people that they are willing to saddle with an unwanted pregnancy.

Everybody needs to take these angry Christians reading from the Old Testament a little more seriously in these times of creeping fascism, of visions of Gilead, and of nostalgic looks to the past like this one:

"Why stoning? There are many reasons. First, the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost...executions are community projects--not with spectators who watch a professional executioner do `his' duty, but rather with actual participants...That modern Christians never consider the possibility of the reintroduction of stoning for capital crimes indicates how thoroughly humanistic concepts of punishment have influenced the thinking of Christians." - Christian Dominionist Gary North bemoaning the influence that humanism has had

 

[Left Coast]

does truth about what's normal way of life insult you?
is to be normal unreasonable?

You're conflating "normal" and "good."

 

[SomeRandom]

does truth about what's normal way of life insult you?
is to be normal unreasonable?

Normalcy is just the most frequent
It doesn’t mean anything good or bad, it’s just the most prevalent at any given time
Like it was once normal in society to hit your spouse (particularly women.) That’s a not good thing.
It’s normal to live in houses. That’s a good thing, insofar as it seems to help with hygiene and protect folks from the climate. That’s not to say that the homeless are in any shape or form to be looked down upon. We should strive to help such folks whenever we can.

Normalcy is not a really good measurement of what’s true or even good, necessarily. It’s just something that happens to be frequent at a given time

 

[paradox]

You're conflating "normal" and "good."

When it comes to raising children yes.

Every child must be given a chance to experience normal way of life, not to be pushed into homosexual couple, that's the whole point I'm making here.

 

[KWED]

does truth about what's normal way of life insult you?
is to be normal unreasonable?

You claimed that children children raised by gay parents would not be happy. Your whole argument is that they somehow suffer or are disadvantaged.
The evidence clearly shows that you are wrong.
So either you apologise for your distasteful comments and accept that your misgivings were unfounded - or confirm to everyone that your position is simply one of hatred for gays and not concern for children (not that it was ever really in doubt).

The "truth" is that the most important factor in good parenting is, well, being a good parent - love, patience, tolerance, understanding, support. These are all what should constitute "normal" and the parents' sexuality is irrelevant. Your idea of "normal" (intolerance, hatred, rejection, discrimination) are what actually makes families dysfunctional.
"They found that religious belief is a negative influence on children’s altruism." Religious children are meaner than their secular counterparts, study finds
"three characteristics of religious groups that are particularly prone to harming children." The sad, twisted truth about conservative Christianity's effect on the mind

 

[SomeRandom]

When it comes to raising children yes.

Every child must be given a chance to experience normal way of life, not to be pushed into homosexual couple, that's the whole point I'm making here.

What?
Pretty sure a lot of gay kids were raised by heterosexual couples. So did those couples just not succeed at pushing the heterosexual lifestyle on their kids? Like wtf? No kid is going to want to even think about their parent’s sex life, gay or straight.

And statistically speaking gay couples successfully raise happy healthy kids at a higher rate than straight couples, despite the bigotry.
Science proves this premise wrong, sorry

 

[KWED]

When it comes to raising children yes.

It used to be "normal" to beat children.
It was once "normal" to put them to work in confined spaces too small for adults.
Presumably you consider both of those to be "good" and rue their passing?

Every child must be given a chance to experience normal way of life, not to be pushed into homosexual couple, that's the whole point I'm making here.

When I have children, if something happened and they had to be adopted, I would rather them go to a loving, liberal gay couple than a straight conservative religious couple. They would be happier and likely turn out better people.

 

[Left Coast]

When it comes to raising children yes.

And yet that's not rational. All sorts of "normal" things have not been good, and all sorts of "not normal" things are totally unobjectionable.

Slavery was once normal.

Being left handed is not normal.

The unnecessary guilt and shame brought on by fundamentalist religion is very normal.

Yet liberating oneself from that unnecessary guilt and shame is abnormal.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Insistence again. I don’t heard him ID as Maga and there is no call for death of gays. Now he really does not think the city should be promoting gays and pride month, but if there is a call for violence garbeled beyond recognition.

Me either. No mention of MAGA or a call to the death of gays.

Which is proof of the incredible lies and propaganda perpetuated by people so incorrigibly brainwashed, they just pull stuff like this right out of thin air, which coincides with all the other BS.

 

[Left Coast]

Me either. No mention of MAGA or a call to the death of gays.

He literally says we should "humble ourselves to what the Bible says" and then says gay sex is a capital crime in the Bible, quoting Leviticus.

Did you even watch it?

 

[KWED]

Me either. No mention of a call to the death of gays.

Which is proof of the incredible lies and propaganda perpetuated by people so incorrigibly brainwashed, they just pull stuff like this right out of thin air, which coincides with all the other BS.

So you missed the bit where he said that "homosexuality is a crime worthy of capital punishment" and where he says that people should accept what the Bible says on the issue - ie. that homosexuals should be killed?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Little hard to catch the audio. I did not hear him call for gay people to be killed. He cited scripture which he is free to believe but cannot force on others. The beauty of American law is that even if he does call for all gays to die or some such the law protects his belief and forbids him from taking actions.

You keep calling (in this thread and another) what I said "a lie." But is it really?\

Jonathan Shelley is pastor of the Stedfast Baptist Church (that's who is in the video), which is listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. He was one of the loudest voices against all things LGBTQ (there was also a brave voice on the other side, in Kevin Johnson, rector of the Episcopal Church of Arlington), Shelly stated to the council that he was “horrified and ashamed that (Arlington) has decided to promote and solicit Pride.” The pastor referred to Pride as an abomination. Shelley continued addressing the city council using biblical scripture to vilify the LGBTQ community. Shelley reasoned that he didn’t understand why the city would, in his own words, “what used to be a crime.” The pastor went on to cite Texas penal code section 21.06, which he claimed was still a valid law even though the law was overruled by Lawrence v. Texas (2003), the U.S. Supreme Court decision that eliminated sodomy laws. So if you want a "lie," that was one.

If Pride is an "abomination," as Shelley claims, then it is because he insists that gay people should remain ashamed of their own nature. There can be no other interpretation of those words.

Shelley cited various Bible verses to lump members of the LGBTQ with those who commit murder, adultery, and bestiality which are crimes worthy of capital punishment under his interpretation of biblical law. Now, if that is not at least a very strong suggestion that LGBTQ people who live their lives according to their nature ought to be punished severely, up to and including execution, I'm not sure what is.

 

[sun rise]

Notice all of the other options available to one when stricken that are overlooked.

The context is in the prior sentence about not responding "an eye for an eye" - in kind. Gandhi and Martin Luther King found non-violent ways of responding which worked. So not taking the sentence literalliy opens up other options.

 

[Truth in love]

People like this are a principal reason I am antitheist, by which I mean strenuously opposed to organized, politicized religion exerting cultural hegemony on the culture at large. I basically want everything they do stopped, including recriminalizing abortion, persecuting LGBTQ, attacking science, and in this preacher's case, coming to a public meeting on public policy and reciting biblical passages as if they mattered. I look forward to the day when this religion has no more power or influence than any other in Western society, like the Druids, when what would Jesus say is as irrelevant as what would Dagda (Celtic deity) say?



Apparently rabbis aren't filling their congregants heads with that hatred, although I'm not as sure about orthodox Judaism, which is often depicted as rigidly judgmental like this Christian preacher. My experience is limited to the media depictions of that community, which I realize might be slanted, but which frequently depicts them as intolerant. The beauty is that those opinions don't matter outside of the orthodox Jewish community and don't influence public policy. Image rabbi Hillel appearing before the same counsel and wanting people punished for not following kosher law or not being circumcised. What would Hillel's god say? It doesn't matter except to people who choose to submit to that.



There you have it - what Jesus would say. Lovely.

Elsewhere, Jesus does say to turn the other cheek, which I consider to be as poor advice as loving enemies, which is a related idea (it's your enemy that wants access to your other cheek). Turning the other cheek means standing down to physical abuse. It's part of a series of statement that combine to say that one should not resist exploitation. Be meek. Be longsuffering. If stricken, turn the other cheek, for your reward for not resisting awaits you in the afterlife, where you will be an equal living well in a heavenly house of many rooms prepared by your loving Father. Pie in the sky awaits those who don't rise up.

Notice all of the other options available to one when stricken that are overlooked. One can just walk away, or try to negotiate a peace. One can strike back, or at a minimum protect one's face with one's hands from a second blow. But the advice is to stand there and invite further violence on oneself by offering the other cheek. Who gives that advice to somebody they care about? Nobody.



Perhaps you need to be better attuned to dog whistles. They always include plausible deniability: "Plausible deniability refers to the denial of blame in (formal or informal) chains of command. Senior people may give indirect and vague orders. For example, Henry II "Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?" or even less direct "Someone should do something about that". The intended message is understood."

Why do you suppose that bigoted pastor read those scriptures that command murdering homosexuals? To condemn them? To disavow them? Do you think that his congregants don't know his feelings about what he would like seen done to homosexuals?

Did you also buy his concern for their health and well-being when referring to AIDS? How many other problems afflicting the gay community do you suppose are a burden for him? He sounds like the antiabortion people discussing regret in those who have abortions as if they cared at all about these people that they are willing to saddle with an unwanted pregnancy.

Everybody needs to take these angry Christians reading from the Old Testament a little more seriously in these times of creeping fascism, of visions of Gilead, and of nostalgic looks to the past like this one:

"Why stoning? There are many reasons. First, the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost...executions are community projects--not with spectators who watch a professional executioner do `his' duty, but rather with actual participants...That modern Christians never consider the possibility of the reintroduction of stoning for capital crimes indicates how thoroughly humanistic concepts of punishment have influenced the thinking of Christians." - Christian Dominionist Gary North bemoaning the influence that humanism has had

Let’s talk about dog whistles for a moment.
Which one is a bigger risk “I’m opposed to the city supporting a lifestyle I think is unhealthy”. Or “ He’s want to murder people”?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yeah, you're gonna have to explain that pal.

You clearly do.

"I've got nothing against homosexuals, they just make me physically sick".
No irrational bigotry there at all.

The actual act itself not the person brother. Not sure if you’re intentional or just not comprehending.

 

[Truth in love]

At approximately 1:35 onward, after explaining it was once a crime in that state, but since overruled by federal law, he says and I quote "but god has already ruled that (long list) and homosexuality, are crimes worthy of capital punishment"

So he actually does make the assertion, did you miss it perhaps? Either way, no one has lied.

FWIW, if anyone doesn't want to take part in a Pride event, they don't have to, they're not mandatory. We had one here just before Covid, lovely sunny day and thousands turned up to enjoy the day, and show support. There was no trouble at all, and all age groups took part and enjoyed the festivities. I don't know how many were heterosexual, like myself just there to offer support and enjoy the day, but given this is a small town it must have been a lot. It's unfathomable what anyone could find to object to in people getting together to support a long persecuted minority, and enjoy a day celebrating inclusion.

I had a hard time hearing things the first go round. I found a very quite spot to listen again .
it is not a call to kill people. It dislikes homosexual life styles no two ways about it. He made a case from several prospectives as to why the city should not support it. The hate filled flaw accusations are appalling.

 

[Truth in love]

Me either. No mention of MAGA or a call to the death of gays.

Which is proof of the incredible lies and propaganda perpetuated by people so incorrigibly brainwashed, they just pull stuff like this right out of thin air, which coincides with all the other BS.

Yeah my initial reaction to the post was man that’s messed up why would a pastor do this, but no he was not doing anything of the kind.