Leviticus and Homosexuality

[CMike]

Better stated, the majority of the psychiatrists who originally put homosexuality in the DSM had a religious, and a political agenda.



If that is true, then homosexuality should not have been put in the DSM in the first place because of religious, and political agenda.

What is normal is not the issue. It is not normal to have a high IQ, but many people who have low, or average IQs would like to have a high IQ. The DSM is a manual of mental disorders. It is not necessary to know what causes homosexuality, or anything else in order to study whether or not practicing something has harmful consequences. Homosexuals who are monogamous, and healthy do not harm anyone.

Do people who marry their mother harm anyone?

 

[ScuzManiac]

I want to hear about what the Bible actually says.

[Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Then read that out loud....and tell me how I'm not reading what "The Bible actually says."

Thanks.

*While the end may no longer be applicable in terms of our current day and age, I'm sure the first half still is.

And that's coming from a non-believer who has common sense and doesn't pick and choose what to take literally.

 

[CMike]

Not interested in your ignorant right-wing rants.

In other words you are not interested in what the bible actually says as you falsely lead to believe.

Why did you even ask?

 

[Sleeppy]

Not interested in your ignorant right-wing rants.

Calling him an ignorant right-winger doesn't really prove anything.. Or do anything productive, at all. -- Many of the Jewish members here have discussed this issue in their DIR.. We can examine that.

 

[Skwim]

Christians follow Christ. That includes his injunction not to judge people or throw rocks at people who you think messed up. I really do not know what Baptist are doing but it does not seem to me they are following the injunctions Christ gave us. In fact they seem to be doing the opposite.

Capiche?

Yes, I believe I understand you: Baptists don't, or hardly, qualify as Christians. Not that this is important to me---I'm an agnostic bystander---but I'm quite certain all 46 million of them would vociferously disagree with you, perhaps even calling you a pseudo-Anarcho-Gnostic, whatever Anarcho-Gnosticism belief entails.
As I've stated elsewhere, because of the huge diversity of Christian beliefs, which can very from subtle shades of difference to antagonistic polarizations, I think it's prudent to allow people to define themselves as Christians any way they wish.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

[Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Then read that out loud....and tell me how I'm not reading what "The Bible actually says."

Thanks.

*While the end may no longer be applicable in terms of our current day and age, I'm sure the first half still is.

And that's coming from a non-believer who has common sense and doesn't pick and choose what to take literally.

I see that this conversation has come to an end, since you don't understand what historical context is.

 

[Sleeppy]

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/judaism-dir/163326-judaism-homosexuality.html

They examined it pretty much from all angles.. But, Dantech raised a pretty good point..

Let me ask you this:

Why would these verses, which are clearly about rape, be referring only to the raping of a woman if it were otherwise allowed to have relations with men?



What we also see here is the consequence to both sins.

In this verse,
we see that both shall die. Why would the victim be punished of death if it were rape? Why would the victim of a homosexual rape be considered to have done an abomination? Surely the victim should be payed and allowed to marry the rapist just like in 22:28-29, wouldn't you think?

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3785274-post55.html

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In other words you are not interested in what the bible actually says as you falsely lead to believe.

Why did you even ask?

Have you ever heard of context? Seems that you right-wing Jews have the same problem as many Christians do. So much for religious Jews automatically knowing more about the Hebrew scriptures than Christians.

Calling him an ignorant right-winger doesn't really prove anything.. Or do anything productive, at all. -- Many of the Jewish members here have discussed this issue in their DIR.. We can examine that.

His posts aren't productive in this topic at all.

 

[Skwim]

Christians follow Christ. That includes his injunction not to judge people or throw rocks at people who you think messed up. I really do not know what Baptist are doing but it does not seem to me they are following the injunctions Christ gave us. In fact they seem to be doing the opposite.

Capiche?

Yes, I believe I understand you: Baptists don't appear to follow Christ, ergo, they likely don't, or hardly, qualify as Christians. Not that this is important to me---I'm an agnostic bystander---but I'm quite certain that all 46 million of them would vociferously disagree with you, perhaps even calling you a pseudo-Anarcho-Gnostic, whatever Anarcho-Gnosticism belief entails.

As I've stated elsewhere, because of the huge diversity of Christian beliefs, which can very from subtle shades of difference to antagonistic polarizations, I think it's prudent to allow people to define themselves as Christians however they wish.

 

[dgirl1986]

Well...most Christians consider homosexuality something natural and absolutely not a sin.

This is news to me! I know only two christians that think this way and that is because they know me.

So do I.
I think that love has no gender. We are all different, so there are people genetically predisposed to fall in love with people of the same gender. It's DNA, which determines our endocrine system, and so our sexuality.

I think that the Old testament unfortunately contains obsolete and intolerant affirmations, which would be condemned by Jesus, surely.

Christians, I just want to know your opinion: how do you consider the Leviticus verses against homosexuality?

There are a lot of rulings in the bible that people do not adhere to these days because they are no longer seen as relevant but speak more about the culture of the time.

 

[JayJayDee]

*yawn*
All that and you still did not answer the question I asked.

I specifically asked for you to present Biblical support for the reason you gave that God is against same sex sex.

Which I gave you.

Perhaps if you were to stop preaching you could simply answer the question I actually asked?

Perhaps if you took your fingers out of your ears for 5 minutes, you might actually engage in meaningful conversation. :ignore:

God went from requiring sacfrices of animals to not requiring sacrifices.
That is a change.

No it's not. The animal sacrifices prefigured and led up to the one sacrifice of Christ. No animal sacrifices were needed after that. 'Christ did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it'. He did that.

Correction.
My knowledge of your particular spin on scripture is superficial.

What particular spin on scripture do you present Mestemia? I have never seen a positive comment from you. Are you this miserable and cynical all of the time...or just most of the time?
What on earth has turned you into such a grouch?

And what of those, like yourself, who twist scripture to fit their agenda?

And what agenda do you imagine I have?

One wonders if your god is as offended as you are?
Hiding behind your god as you do, I cannot help but wonder how he feels about such hypocritical cowardice.

You're funny. "Hypocritical cowardice"? Who is hiding behind an anonymous computer avatar in a hood?

It's your way or no way then?.....I get it.

Like talking to a brick wall. :banghead3. Will you ever come out from behind that gruff exterior and actually engage in conversation that encourages meaningful and pleasant exchange? One can only hope.....

 

[Skwim]

I want to hear about what the Bible actually says.

[Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Then read that out loud....and tell me how I'm not reading what "The Bible actually says."

Thanks.

*While the end may no longer be applicable in terms of our current day and age, I'm sure the first half still is.

And that's coming from a non-believer who has common sense and doesn't pick and choose what to take literally.

I see that this conversation has come to an end, since you don't understand what historical context is.

But hasn't Scuzmaniac done exactly what you asked of him; simply show you what the Bible has to say; "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"? Placing it in some kind of context you may have in mind was not part of your request, or even implied, so it's irrelevant. ScuzManiac fulfilled his part of the bargain, giving you what you wanted: "what the Bible actually says."    Want sushi? then don't ask for a taco.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But hasn't Scuzmaniac done exactly what you asked of him; simply show you what the Bible has to say; "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"? Placing it in some kind of context you may have in mind was not part of your request, or even implied, so it's irrelevant. ScuzManiac fulfilled his part of the bargain, giving you what you wanted: "what the Bible actually says."    Want sushi? then don't ask for a taco.

I've asked him many times to: come up with a logical argument as to how the Bible could mean now what it didn't mean then or any sort of logical argument, provide historical context, discuss what the words mean in their original languages.

He has ignored each one of those requests and I've asked him multiple times. Why don't you go back and read my exchanges with him before butting in and trying to comment?

 

[Skwim]

I've asked him many times to: come up with a logical argument as to how the Bible could mean now what it didn't mean then or any sort of logical argument, provide historical context, discuss what the words mean in their original languages.

He has ignored each one of those requests and I've asked him multiple times. Why don't you go back and read my exchanges with him before butting in and trying to comment?

Because in light of your simple request, "I want to hear about what the Bible actually says,"---not his opinion or explanation---your exchanges are irrelevant.

You asked   "what the Bible a-c-t-u-a-l-l-y says"   and he told you.    Simple request: simple answer!     Want sushi? then don't ask for a taco.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Because in light of your simple request, "I want to hear about what the Bible actually says,"---not his opinion or explanation---your exchanges are irrelevant.

You asked   "what the Bible a-c-t-u-a-l-l-y says"   and he told you.    Simple request: simple answer!     Want sushi? then don't ask for a taco.

I'm done talking to you, as well.

 

[CMike]

Have you ever heard of context? Seems that you right-wing Jews have the same problem as many Christians do. So much for religious Jews automatically knowing more about the Hebrew scriptures than Christians.



His posts aren't productive in this topic at all.

I am responding not for you, whom is totally closed to the truth but for others who may be reading.

This is the entire chapter

Leviticus - Chapter 20 (Parshah Kedoshim) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

The chapter deals with forbidden relationships.

Of the forbidden relationships homosexual behavior is also called an abomination from G-D.

What is unclear?

According to the Torah G-D says it's an abomination.

13. And a man who lies with a male as one would with a woman both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon themselves.

There are certainly leftist jews whom ignore what G-D said as there are leftists christians whom create their own stuff.

 

[CMike]

I see that this conversation has come to an end, since you don't understand what historical context is.

This has nothing to do with historical context.

The laws in the Torah are perpetual. They don't change.

The morals and ethics are the same.

You may not add nor subtract from the commandments.

The Torah is obviously not going to say what you want it to say.

 

[CMike]

That is because you have a religious agenda...

That's true. It's called the Torah. And the question is about the Torah. Leviticus is a book in the Torah.

 

[McBell]

Which I gave you.

No, you didn't.
No where in this thread have you presented Biblical support for the reasons why god is against same sex sex.

You merely presented verses which god condemns same sex sex.

Seems you are the one with the finger in ear problem.

 

[CMike]

No, you didn't.
No where in this thread have you presented Biblical support for the reasons why god is against same sex sex.

You merely presented verses which god condemns same sex sex.

Seems you are the one with the finger in ear problem.

Because G-D considers it an abomination.