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Leviticus and Homosexuality

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I'm glad someone that ACTUALLY studies The Bible understands....

Yeah, JWs are such great experts on the Bible, given that they have their own sect translation of it that no one else uses that was created to buttress their made up doctrines and they will be kicked out of their denomination if they disagree with anything the dictators up top tell them. :facepalm:
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Yeah, JWs are such great experts on the Bible, given that they have their own sect translation of it that no one else uses that was created to buttress their made up doctrines and they will be kicked out of their denomination if they disagree with anything the dictators up top tell them. :facepalm:

Great translation they have. It just completely dismisses the original Greek and Hebrew text and goes for the Orwellian. Wonderful translation.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I'm waiting to hear how the Bible could've been talking about LGBT people as we know them today when such a concept and way of living didn't exist then! How could the Bible mean today what it did not mean then? They had no concept of sexual orientation or that gay people could date and been in relationships the same as straight people. The culture was completely different so it's impossible that they had modern LGBT people in mind. Their thinking about male-male sex was tied up with sexism, patriarchy and archaic gender roles which our modern society has largely rejected and is continually moving away from.

Lets see some logic, please!
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
You obviously now little then.

It's really very simple.

The passages speak for themselves.

G-d says it's an abomination.

Is there something unclear to you about the passages?

Obviously that's not clear when there's disagreements over it. When you put it into historical context, it doesn't make sense how it could refer to modern gay people in committed relationships. Your fellow Jews don't agree with your take on it, either: Reading The Prohibition Against Homosexuality In Context - My Jewish Learning

How is it an "abomination" for two men or two women to form a loving, committed relationship with each other? It's illogical to view it that way and God is not illogical. So it's referring to something else.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Yeah, JWs are such great experts on the Bible, given that they have their own sect translation of it that no one else uses that was created to buttress their made up doctrines and they will be kicked out of their denomination if they disagree with anything the dictators up top tell them. :facepalm:

Thank you for that very inaccurate description from one who only likes the parts of the Bible that agree with his/her lifestyle. You have a vested interest in homosexuality not being condemned by God.....but homosexuals never were condemned....only their perverted practices were forbidden.

Paul wrote "Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God. (1 Cor 6:9-11)

Paul clearly stated that those practices could no longer be part of a Christian's life. In order to have a clean standing before God, unclean practices must cease.
He told us not to be misled. I believe that many people are.

As the designer of the human body, I am guessing that God knows when something is 'perverted' in his eyes. That is to say, used in a manner for which it was never designed. :( Sex has a more noble purpose than mere physical pleasure.

To make the body's sewer outlet the repository for the seed of life is what is abhorrent to the Creator. And we won't go into detail about the many other abhorrent sexual practices that God has seen, and is still seeing in the world of depraved humanity.

Ignorance makes people say and do stupid things. It causes them to want to justify what God condemns. God wants people to stop doing that. (2Pet 3:9)

If you are waiting for God to change the rules to suit you....don't hold your breath.

Only humans think they can change God's rules, God's standards never change. :no:
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Thank you for that very inaccurate description from one who only likes the parts of the Bible that agree with his/her lifestyle. You have a vested interest in homosexuality not being condemned by God.....but homosexuals never were condemned....only their perverted practices were forbidden.

Paul wrote "Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God. (1 Cor 6:9-11)

Paul clearly stated that those practices could no longer be part of a Christian's life. In order to have a clean standing before God, unclean practices must cease.
He told us not to be misled. I believe that many people are.

As the designer of the human body, I am guessing that God knows when something is 'perverted' in his eyes. That is to say, used in a manner for which it was never designed. :( Sex has a more noble purpose than mere physical pleasure.

To make the body's sewer outlet the repository for the seed of life is what is abhorrent to the Creator. And we won't go into detail about the many other abhorrent sexual practices that God has seen, and is still seeing in the world of depraved humanity.

Ignorance makes people say and do stupid things. It causes them to want to justify what God condemns. God wants people to stop doing that. (2Pet 3:9)

If you are waiting for God to change the rules to suit you....don't hold your breath.

Only humans think they can change God's rules, God's standards never change. :no:

Lots of personal opinion about why god dislikes it...
Do you perhaps have anything from the Bible, I will even accept your perverted JW version, to support the reasons you give?

When was the last time you sacrificed an animal for your god?
What, you haven't?
Then you are either in sin for not making the required sacrifices, or god did in fact alter his standards.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
JayJayDee is on ignore so she can keep her tired and stale ranting, presumptions and personal attacks to herself. Not interested.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
JayJayDee is on ignore so she can keep her tired and stale ranting, presumptions and personal attacks to herself. Not interested.

In other words she beat you at a debate.

He also has mee on Ignore, JayJay, after calling me names which I'm pretty sure he'll go to Hell for.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
In other words she beat you at a debate.

She doesn't debate. She just beats you over the head with Watchtower doctrine and insults.

He also has mee on Ignore, JayJay, after calling me names which I'm pretty sure he'll go to Hell for.
You know why you're on ignore. Stop being a petty, whiny, insulting child and get over it. That's why you were put on ignore and reported in the first place. That's the last thing I have to say to you.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
She doesn't debate. She just beats you over the head with Watchtower doctrine and insults.

You know why you're on ignore. Stop being a petty, whiny, insulting child and get over it. That's why you were put on ignore and reported in the first place. That's the last thing I have to say to you.

You're such a model of catholicsm!
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
I simply expect him to live by a certain standard in accordance to his beliefs.
 
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McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I simply expect him to live by a certain standard in accordance to his beliefs.

No you don't.
You expect him to live by the standards you think his beliefs dictate.
The problem here is that you do not know what his beliefs are and you have no interest in finding out.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Lots of personal opinion about why god dislikes it...
Do you perhaps have anything from the Bible, I will even accept your perverted JW version, to support the reasons you give?

People like yourself can stand at a distance and cast a critical eye, along with condescension, but then many people are victims of ignorance and are labouring under a complete misconception as to what the Bible actually says, compared to what they think it says. (Those who actually care that is) This is why a knowledge of the whole Bible, including the pictorial parts, is necessary.

“You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”

Or as the Complete Jewish Bible renders it...

Leviticus 18:22 RY: iv, LY: vii “‘You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination."

Can you make this verse say something else? Is that graphic enough?

If you have done any research on the conduct of the Canaanites, you will know that depraved sexual practices were common in that land...the very land that was gifted to the Israelites, and they were told to not only evict these bad tenants, but warned not to adopt their ways....

Leviticus 18:24, 25....“‘Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for it is by all these things that the nations that I am driving out from before you have made themselves unclean. 25 Therefore, the land is unclean, and I will bring punishment on it for its error, and the land will vomit its inhabitants out.

According to one source...

"Evidence indicates that Canaanites lived in morbid dread of their priests. Marriages and families were shattered by their practices, and the unwanted children of these unions were often slaughtered on altars to Baal or Dagon. Sexually transmitted disease was likely epidemic; rape was perhaps as common as it is in the worst of today's war-ravaged nations. According to Merrill F. Unger: “Excavations in Palestine have uncovered piles of ashes and remains of infant skeletons in cemeteries around heathen altars, pointing to the widespread practice of this cruel abomination.” (Archaeology and the Old Testament, 1964, p. 279) Halley’s Bible Handbook (1964, p. 161) says: “Canaanites worshipped, by immoral indulgence, as a religious rite, in the presence of their gods; and then, by murdering their first-born children, as a sacrifice to these same gods. It seems that, in large measure, the land of Canaan had become a sort of Sodom and Gomorrah on a national scale. . . . Did a civilization of such abominable filth and brutality have any right longer to exist? . . . Archaeologists who dig in the ruins of Canaanite cities wonder that God did not destroy them sooner than he did.”

Random Jottings: The Horror of Canaanite Religion

As for the rest of your questions.....

When was the last time you sacrificed an animal for your god?
What, you haven't?
Then you are either in sin for not making the required sacrifices, or god did in fact alter his standards.

Departures from the law were not changes in God or his standards. If you knew what the sacrifices in Israel were all about, you would discern this. Nothing changed from God's perspective, except that the Christian message was now available to Gentiles. It was always going to include them, as his promise to Abraham shows. (Gen 22:18; Acts 10:34, 35)

Sexual sin remained sexual sin as Paul demonstrated in 1 Cor 6:9-11. Nothing changed there.

The blood sacrifices offered by the priests in Israel needed to be repeated weekly for remission of sin. The sacrifice of Jesus was "offered once for all time" replacing the necessity for the people to offer animal sacrifices any longer. Faith in the sin atoning blood of the Christ was now all that was needed.

"However, when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have already taken place, he passed through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 He entered into the holy place, not with the blood of goats and of young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time, and obtained an everlasting deliverance for us. 13 For if the blood of goats and of bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who have been defiled sanctifies for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works so that we may render sacred service to the living God?" (Heb 9:11-14)

Your knowledge of scripture and its meaning are superficial Mestemia. God will never reveal his truth to those who treat Him as if he is a moron. Try some respect. :(
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
So you pick and choose Bible versions that use the words you want to see?
Of course! Isn't this why people choose Bible version X over Bible version Y? Bible version X is more in keeping with their religious needs.

Therefore, I picked those that appear to satisfy saint_frankenstein's request of ScuzManiac-----After all, saint_frankenstein never stated or implied that the quotes had to come from a particular version. :D

Interesting that sodomy also includes oral sex and sex with animals...
"interesting"? I guess. However, in the passages I cited I believe they refer to homosexual activity. Don't agree? Fine. No skin off my nose. :shrug:

Is this the best you got?
Just a simple reply to the following request.
saint_frankenstein said:
ScuzManiac said:
The Bible DOES in fact say a LOT about homosexuality.

In fact, it's mentioned multiple times in the following:

Samuel
Kings
Revelation
etc
Where in the world is homosexuality mentioned in those books?!
If you don't think the quoted passages are apt, then so be it. :shrug: Personally, when it's said that a person delighted much in someone of the same sex (a paraphrase of 1 Sam. 19:1) to me it suggest more of a homosexual relationship than not. But maybe I'm more attuned to the nuances of sexual expression than you are. ;)
 
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