Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

[Deeje]

His brothers are the members of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses and even though Jesus seems to have given them authority over everything the Bible calls them "least". No kidding?

Christ's "brothers" are ALL of the anointed, not just the GB.
The GB are slaves appointed by the Master to "feed" other slaves in his household. (Matthew 24:45)

 

[savagewind]

Christ's "brothers" are ALL of the anointed, not just the GB.

According to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses a person is judged for everlasting life based on the fact that he or she does good to any anointed one. And how is anyone supposed to believe someone they meet is really anointed or not?

The GB are slaves appointed by the Master to "feed" other slaves in his household. (Matthew 24:45)

Yes, they get to decide what scripture means. Anyone who has that privilege is not to be considered least, but most.

 

[savagewind]

11 It is noteworthy that in Jesus’ illustration, the faithful and discreet slave receives two distinct appointments. The first is over the domestics; the second is over all the master’s belongings. Since the illustration is fulfilled only in this time of the end, both appointments would have to come after Jesus’ presence in kingly power began in 1914.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/who-is-faithful-discreet-slave/

Jesus came once to appoint the faithful slave over the domestics, he came a second time to appoint it over all his belongings and he is supposed to come a third time to judge the people who don't believe that because it is pure foolishness.

 

[Deeje]

Sigh. IF there are "only sheep and goats in the world when Christ returns" [again] how is it they all call Jesus, "lord"?

Do you understand the question @Deeje

You seem to be saying that every person will be calling Jesus, the lord. Do you really think that is likely?

That is so twisted.....

If someone acknowledges Jesus as their "Lord" and yet he can reject them out of hand by saying that he "NEVER" knew them, then isn't that proof that simply calling yourself a Christian doesn't mean that Jesus thinks you are one?

Those who "do not know God" and those who 'know him but do not obey him' are both condemned, according to Paul. The "goats" I believe, are in the latter group.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9:
"...since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (ESV)

Who is the "you" and "us" in that verse?

The judgment sounds pretty final to me.....we had better be very sure of our position....there are no second chances.

Do you know how @Deeje can say there exists ONLY sheep and goats? Imagine everyone calling Jesus "lord". OMG

Both the sheep and the goats call him lord in the illustration. This is a new question so please refrain from saying you have answered all my questions.

The Bible answers your question.

 

[savagewind]

That is so twisted.....

If someone acknowledges Jesus as their "Lord" and yet he can reject them out of hand by saying that he "NEVER" knew them, then isn't that proof that simply calling yourself a Christian doesn't mean that Jesus thinks you are one?

Those who "do not know God" and those who 'know him but do not obey him' are both condemned, according to Paul. The "goats" I believe, are in the latter group.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9:
"...since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (ESV)

Who is the "you" and "us" in that verse?

The judgment sounds pretty final to me.....we had better be very sure of our position....there are no second chances.



The Bible answers your question.

OK. YOU say "everyone in the world is either a sheep or a goat". BUT, BUT, in the illustration EVERYONE, BOTH the sheep and the goats, call him lord. Get it? No? LOL I'm twisted? Everyone in the world is not either a sheep or a goat. ONLY the people who profess to be led by Jesus call him lord. Not everyone is a sheep or a goat ACCORDING TO THE VERY ILLUSTRATION YOU CHOOSE TO USE TO JUDGE US. Not me, YOU.

 

[savagewind]

@Deeje, is everyone in the world either a sheep or a goat?

 

[savagewind]

12 When did Jesus appoint the faithful slave over his domestics? To answer that, we need to go back to 1914—the beginning of the harvest season. As we learned earlier, at that time many groups claimed to be Christian. From which group would Jesus select and appoint the faithful slave? That question was answered after he and his Father came and inspected the temple, or spiritual arrangement for worship, from 1914 to the early part of 1919. * (Mal. 3:1) They were pleased with a small band of loyal Bible Students who showed that their heart was with Jehovah and his Word. Of course, they needed some cleansing, but they humbly responded during a brief period of testing and refining. (Mal. 3:2-4) Those faithful Bible Students were true Christian wheat. In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave and appointed them over his domestics.

15 When does Jesus make the second appointment—“over all his belongings”? Jesus said: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving [literally, “having come,” ftn.] finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.” (Matt. 24:46, 47) Note that Jesus makes the second appointment after he arrives and finds that the slave has been “doing so,” that is, faithfully dispensing spiritual food. So there would be an interval between the two appointments. To understand how and when Jesus appoints the slave over all his belongings, we need to know two things: when he arrives and what his belongings include.

Do you see that according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses Jesus has come already TWICE?

 

[savagewind]

So I made a mistake. Sometimes I do that. They do not profess to have been put over all God's belongings yet, but really, in practice they act as though they already are appointed.

What do I mean? According to them, they alone understand The Word of God and if we do not agree with all their resolutions regarding scripture it will be as though we have not obeyed God for Jesus Christ, the lord.

 

[Deeje]

According to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses a person is judged for everlasting life based on the fact that he or she does good to any anointed one. And how is anyone supposed to believe someone they meet is really anointed or not?

Isn't that just the point....since the doing of good to one's neighbor is an obligation for all Christians, it shouldn't matter if you know whether a brother or sister is anointed or not. We treat all our brothers and sisters in the same way. Caring for them in a variety of ways....supporting them in their trials. We don't just single out the anointed for special treatment.

The anointed also have the primary assignment to preach, so we assist them in that work too, since it is incumbent on any who received an invitation from the "bride" to go and invite others.

None of your objections to the GB hold any credibility because you demonstrate that you have closed your mind and heart...nothing can get in...and nothing will unless you change your attitude. Bad-mouthing Christ's brothers is not a good way to ensure your survival.

Yes, they get to decide what scripture means. Anyone who has that privilege is not to be considered least, but most.

The fact that there are "least" ones at all means that some are used in a greater capacity...look at the apostles. There were 12 of them but how often do you hear about the others apart from Peter, James and John? What about Paul? Does it mean that the others were less important? By no means because the foundation of the kingdom is built on the 12.

Jesus came once to appoint the faithful slave over the domestics, he came a second time to appoint it over all his belongings and he is supposed to come a third time to judge the people who don't believe that because it is pure foolishness.

Again you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding.....there are not three "comings" of Christ. His first appearance was as a human redeemer.....to teach and to bring "the lost sheep" among Israel back into an acceptable relationship with their God. They were going to be "few" and he also knew that "other sheep" would be added in time.

Jesus' second "coming" is not a "coming" at all, but a "parousia" or "presence". Christ was enthroned as King in the heavens in 1914 C.E. and began ruling over his congregation who were found faithfully carrying out the assignment he gave them. (to feed his household) He appointed them over his "belongings" here on earth and had them carry out the greatest preaching campaign in the history of the world. (Matthew 24:14) Only when that is accomplished to the satisfaction of God and his Christ, can "the end" come.

Since Jesus is already here...it will be his "manifestation" that will let all people know that the time is up.....there will not be any second chances to serve God acceptably. (Matthew 24:37-39)

Titus 2:11-15:
"For the undeserved kindness of God has been manifested, bringing salvation to all sorts of people. 12 It trains us to reject ungodliness and worldly desires and to live with soundness of mind and righteousness and godly devotion amid this present system of things, 13 while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to set us free from every sort of lawlessness and to cleanse for himself a people who are his own special possession, zealous for fine works. 15 Keep on speaking these things and exhorting and reproving with full authority. Do not let anyone look down on you."

Matthew 24:29-31:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity."

That gathering is looming ever closer day by day. We are no longer just in "the last days" but in the last minutes.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Think about it......There was no heavenly hope offered to pre-Christian servants of God.

I believe it is you who needs to think, "independently" yourself!

Matthew 8:10-12 (ESV Strong's) When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. 11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Hebrews 11:13-16 (ESV Strong's) 13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

I think it ludicrous that witnesses believe that Abraham, Isaac, Noah, Moses and all the other men and women God used have no heavenly hope, but the 7 men sitting in New York does.

The picture is clear when the waters are not muddied by Christendom's errors.

Revelation 20:4-6:
"I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (NIV)

And who was given the authority to judge? Not the 7 men that you worship!

Matthew 19:28 (ESV Strong's) 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Will you or any of the 7 men you worship, worship the beast or take it's mark? Will you be beheaded for the testimony "ABOUT JESUS"? Probably not, because your testimony is about God's personal name, no Trinity, no hell.

 

[savagewind]

@Accept that you @Deeje say that to obey the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is to do good to the least of the brothers of Jesus. You do write it that way.
How is a person saved? To be a sheep is the only way to be saved. How to be a sheep? To do good to the least of Jesus' brothers. To do good like the sheep do is to obey the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. To obey the governing body is to do good to Jesus as the illustration shows. So sheep obey the governing body. Hebrews 13:17 But THEY say it means "obey" and Babylon the Great says it means "obey" but I think you are aware Deeje that the only right way to be is to obey GOD. Right?

9 Do all anointed ones on earth make up the faithful slave? No. The reality is that not all anointed ones have a role in dispensing spiritual food to fellow believers worldwide. Among the wheat are anointed brothers who may serve as ministerial servants or elders in their local congregation. They teach from house to house and in their congregation, and they loyally support the direction from headquarters. But they do not have a part in dispensing spiritual food to the worldwide brotherhood. Also among the anointed are humble sisters, who would never try to assume the role of teachers in the congregation.—1 Cor. 11:3; 14:34.

20 By means of the faithful and discreet slave, Jesus is following the pattern he set in the first century—feeding many through the hands of a few. Jesus appointed that faithful slave to ensure that his genuine followers—whether of the anointed or of the other sheep—would have a steady supply of timely spiritual food throughout the last days. Let us be determined to show our appreciation by giving our loyal support to the anointed brothers who make up that faithful and discreet slave.—Heb. 13:7, 17.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Isn't that just the point....since the doing of good to one's neighbor is an obligation for all Christians, it shouldn't matter if you know whether a brother or sister is anointed or not. We treat all our brothers and sisters in the same way.

"since doing good to one's "NEIGHBOR" is an obligation for all Christians"

"it shouldn't matter if you know whether a "BROTHER or SISTER" is anointed or not"

"We treat all our brothers and sisters in the same way."

How did you go from doing good to one's "neighbor" to, knowing whether or not a, "brother or sister" is anointed?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

He appointed them over his "belongings" here on earth and had them carry out the greatest preaching campaign in the history of the world.

*** w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
Finally, we examined why Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919 but will take place during the great tribulation.

 

[savagewind]

Of course it is true that a person must not do good only to those who are considered great. Strawmen confuse me a lot, but isn't that what it is?

Are you aware that you @Deeje teach that to obey the governing body and the elders is to do good to Jesus brothers?
You should know that people hear you saying that it is God's will that you obey the governing body and it is the only way a person can be saved.
The sheep are rewarded with everlasting life. Isn't that right?

 

[savagewind]

Jesus did not come to inspect the Bible Students, but he is present with them. He did not appoint some of them over all God's belongings, just some of God's belongings. God allows them to be in charge of The Word before God puts them in charge of all God's belongings. To refuse all these great and wonderful truths is to be a goat. To be a goat is to call Jesus, "lord" but not for real. Everyone who does not accept that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is to be obeyed is a goat but still calls Jesus their lord. Why do they do that?

A person has to wonder what else of all God's belongings is more important than the words God gives us via The Holy Spirit.

 

[savagewind]

Jehovah gives the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses authority over The Word of God, but they can not be put over all of God's belongings until the TRIBULATION. They have been entrusted with God's Word, with some millions of dedicated Jehovah's Witnesses and their children, but they say that they will not be put over everything until sometime later. What else is there, pray tell?

The goats. Will Jehovah give those men the authority over the goats? It will probably be better for the goats to be under the authority of the men of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses than to be under the authority of me. Don't you think?

 

[savagewind]

The question is. It is the first time I am asking it.

The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been appointed over the meaning of God's Word, but will not be appointed over ALL of God's belongs until The Great Tribulation.

What are the belongings of Jehovah that they can't handle at least as good as God's Word presently?

I do not know how to talk crazy. Try and and see how dam hard it is.

From another angle please.

Jehovah has given them the word of God since 1919? What else does Jehovah have that Jehovah will not give unto them until all hell breaks loose ie the great tribulation?

It's not funny. It is a real question.

Simply put: what else is there?

What else is there for the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses to have?

My troll has a word, if you don't mind.

My head on a platter. Haha

Without The Internet, what?

It probably wouldn't be funny. Would it?

 

[Olinda]

Thank you Olinda!

It's been 10 days and if you're like me, you ran out of popcorn a long time ago.

Thank you, @Oeste !
Yes, It's too long to make the popcorn last . I'm particularly disappointed because although LOTS of posts were off-topic, yours was the only one singled out, and yet when you explained the relevance, no response.
Let's hope that @Deeje just missed amongst all the rest. If so, we'll hear from her soon.

 

[savagewind]

@Deeje is the statement "everyone is either a sheep or a goat" correct? Yes? How do you know?

Matthew 7:24-27

During the time the Jews obeyed Moses was everyone either a Jew or a non-Jew?

Acts 8:27
So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official in charge of the entire treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. He had gone to Jerusalem to worship,
Isaiah 56:3
Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely separate me from His people." Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree."
Jeremiah 39:15-18

 

[Deeje]

is the statement "everyone is either a sheep or a goat" correct? Yes? How do you know?

Matthew 25:31-46:

31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” (NWT)

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9:
"We are obligated always to give thanks to God for you, brothers. This is fitting, because your faith is growing exceedingly and the love of each and every one of you is increasing toward one another. 4 As a result we ourselves take pride in you among the congregations of God because of your endurance and faith in all your persecutions and the hardships that you are suffering. 5 This is a proof of the righteous judgment of God, leading to your being counted worthy of the Kingdom of God, for which you are indeed suffering.
6 This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength" (NWT)

That pretty much covers people of "all the nations". Those who 'do not know God' choose not to know him.....and those who 'know him but fail to obey him' suffer the same fate.