djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
If your husband says he's happier with you than without you, then you do "make" him happy.
Yes, God is the Creator, but, when was the last time God "made" you do anything?
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Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
If your husband says he's happier with you than without you, then you do "make" him happy.
Yes, God is the Creator, but, when was the last time God "made" you do anything?
Not made you do. Made.
I don't make him happy. He is happy to be with me not without me. It is because he does not want to be alone so all I have to do is show up. That is not making, it is being somewhere. Everyone has to be somewhere.
Ezekiel 36:26
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
John 3:3
Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!
James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Through another person? So, let's compromise, shall we? Disciples do not make disciple. They fish them.
God does that. How can you even write like it isn't like that? Is it because your fear is strong? Is it scary that the Bible is wrong? After a while it is funny.
Surely I can not make a person new in Christ. Can you?
Going, therefore, fish for nations, baptizing those fish. In what God? Water. LOL
@djhwoodwerks you are attributing the new creation to the works of men. (A happy woman in Christ might not have moved you so).
But, you know that יְהוָה֙ is jealous. Yes? Exodus 34:14 You do not have to be making The Lord jealous.
But, you know that יְהוָה֙ is jealous. Yes? Exodus 34:14 You do not have to be making The Lord jealous.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
I see, so unless he's physically with you, he's unhappy? That means, there's something about "YOU" that "makes" him happy, right? I guess if you ask him if you "make" him happy, he'll say, "no you don't, I just choose to be happy when you're with me".
If it's just that he "doesn't want to be alone" then why is he not happy when "you're" not around, but other people are? Why "you" and not someone else? Is he just as happy at work with other people around as he is when you're around? Pssst, don't look now, but your "witness" mindset is showing!
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
If happiness comes from within, not without, why is he happy when you're with him and not happy when you're not with him? If he's not happy when he's alone, then something from without has to bring up that happiness, don't you think?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
We can't "make" disciples, you and your husband can't "make" each other happy, but I can "make" the Lord jealous? How is that?
Yes...two flocks who occupy one pen....and who have one shepherd. The first to be gathered are those who will rule with Christ in heaven. The kingdom is a government that will have subjects here on earth as John saw in his Revelation.
Revelation 21:1-5:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
Christ and his bride are seen extending their rulership to the earth, to "mankind", bringing kingdom blessings to obedient ones by taking all pain and suffering and death away forever. This is the good news of the kingdom. (Matthew 24:14)
After seeing 144,000 who were "bought from the earth" (Revelation 14:1-3) John goes on to describe another group of individuals.......
Revelation 7:9, 10, 13, 14:
"After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”......In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
There is a numbered group seen in heaven with Jesus (these are kings and priests who are raised "first". Revelation 20:6) and another unnumbered group who are said to survive the "great tribulation" here on earth. (Matthew 24:21) I hope to be among those survivors.
Jesus said...at John 10:9-16: in context
"I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and that one will go in and out and find pasturage.....I am the fine shepherd; the fine shepherd surrenders his life in behalf of the sheep....I am the fine shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my life in behalf of the sheep.
“And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."
These "other sheep" are not just gentiles but all those who are saved by Jesus' sacrifice and who hope to live on a cleansed earth with the best government ever. They enjoy the shepherds loving care too, even though they have not been chosen as rulers in his kingdom. This is the unnumbered "great crowd". Jesus sacrifice applies to all his disciples whether they have a heavenly calling or an earthly hope.
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Deeje said:
Did I attack you or did I simply state facts that are obvious with everything you post here? I asked who you were meeting with for worship? Who are your leaders? Whose teachings do you accept so that you can direct others to the kind of worship you hold to be true? You profess to know so much about JW's, yet you never identify your own church so that the same scrutiny can be applied to them. They were fair questions IMO.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Aren't the "other sheep" the same as the "unnumbered group"? And, where does that leave all witnesses who pass before the "great tribulation" starts or ends?
You said, "Yes...two flocks who occupy one pen", then you said, "Jesus said..." and provided scripture to attempt to verify there are "two flocks" and highlighted where Jesus said, "and they will become ONE FLOCK"?
And if you're not, what happens to you?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Where does it say that the 144,000 are made priests and kings?
Revelation 5:9-10 (ESV Strong's) And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you 'ransomed' people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, 10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”
The same word (g0059. ἀγοράζω agorazō; from 58; properly, to go to market, i.e. (by implication) to purchase; specially, to redeem: — buy, redeem.) used in Revelation 14:3 that you are using to say the 144,000 were "bought from the earth" is used in 5:9 were God has "ransomed" people from "every tribe and language and people and nation" which you claim are just the "other sheep".
It is these people, from every tribe and language and people and nation, that are made a kingdom and priests, not the 144,000, the 144,000 are only from the tribes of Israel,
Revelation 7:4 (ESV Strong's) 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
All good things come from ABOVE. Happy is good.
All bad things come from HERE. Jealous is bad.
Good things like discipleship and happiness come from above. The law of 'you shall reap what you sow' is from above.
It is possible to BLOCK the things from above so that it is possible to make a person sad, angry, jealous....but it is not possible to make a person happy, peaceful or meek because those things come from above as those things are good gifts and perfect presence*. That is what the Bible says.
*that is on purpose.
And I thought you said you had studied with JW's? Seriously you obviously heard nothing because you were too busy trying to prove us wrong.
Think about it......There was no heavenly hope offered to pre-Christian servants of God. The Jews had no such belief. They had no immortal soul that floated off at death to reside in heaven or burn in hell. Christendom created that concept, with a little help from Plato.
To a Jew, Messiah's kingdom was to rule on earth and all who died were going to "sleep" unconsciously in their tombs (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10) and be resurrected to enjoy mortal human life forever on earth under the rulership of their promised liberator. (As God had purposed in the beginning) Nothing has changed, (Isaiah 55:11) except that through Jesus and the holy spirit, God revealed another formerly secret part of his purpose.....to take a limited number of humans that He would choose from the earth, to rule in the heavenly kingdom with his son. Every single ruler has been a human and understand the human condition...even its primary King knows what humans think and feel. (Hebrews 4:14-15)
Jesus said he would call the dead from their graves...not from the spirit realm. (John 5:28-29) All pre-Christian servants who died before Jesus opened the way to heaven, (John 3:13) will have the resurrection they expected....back to life on earth.
You said, "Yes...two flocks who occupy one pen", then you said, "Jesus said..." and provided scripture to attempt to verify there are "two flocks" and highlighted where Jesus said, "and they will become ONE FLOCK"?
Let's try again.....
Jesus said....."I am the fine shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my life in behalf of the sheep. 16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."
Jesus is the fine shepherd...right? He has sheep whom he knows and who know him....they obey him in all things. He died for all of them. But the fold that he initially chose were all Jewish. He had "other sheep" who were not of that fold, but in his Revelation, John sees only 144,000 taken from the 12 tribes of Israel. We know that this is not literal fleshly Israel because Paul made it clear that being born Jewish was no longer the criteria for those who would rule with Christ in his Kingdom.
Paul wrote at Romans 2:28-29....
"A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God."
This is "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) made up of both Jewish and gentile disciples of Christ. Both could now become rulers and priests in the kingdom. (Revelation 20:6)
But they are a finite group and not the only Christians saved as John saw in his Revelation. Two groups owe their salvation to Christ.....the two became "one flock" on earth under the "one shepherd". Whilst still on earth, the anointed are part of that one flock in company with the "other sheep". There is no earthly distinction between the two groups, no adulation or special privileges or titles....the only way to identify the anointed is to see them partake of the emblems on Memorial night.
At Revelation 22:17, it says: “The spirit and the bride keep on saying: ‘Come!’ And let anyone hearing say: ‘Come!’ and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.”
The “bride” is clearly identified in the Scriptures as the anointed Christian congregation, who join their heavenly Bridegroom, Christ Jesus in issuing an invitation to others. (Ephesians 5:25-27; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 19:7-9; Revelation 21:9-11) The invitation to “take life’s water free” is presented by the heavenly “bride” and is obviously open to an unlimited number of people, “anyone that wishes.” So the unnumbered “great crowd,” at Revelation 7:9 are identified with those at Revelation 22:17.
Those who receive this invitation are to invite others. All Christians must issue this invitation to "anyone that wishes".....it is an obligation, not an option.
Since there are only "sheep" and "goats" in the world when Jesus comes as judge.....I will suffer the same fate as the goats if I am judged to be unworthy of his sacrifice. I will forfeit life forever.....what about you? What will happen to you if Jesus finds you unworthy of his sacrifice for failing to render assistance to his "brothers"?
His brothers are the members of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses and even though Jesus seems to have given them authority over everything the Bible calls them "least". No kidding?
And I thought it was against the law to "go beyond the things written". Here is a NEW question. Can you prove it by other scripture that there are only sheep and goats?
The picture is clear when the waters are not muddied by Christendom's errors.
Revelation 20:4-6:
"I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years." (NIV)
Revelation 20 is a favorite chapter of mine. After satan is confined for the duration of the Kingdom's rule, John saw those who were seated on thrones and given authority to judge.
These ones had not worshipped the wild beast or its image, (something that happens in the last days when this beast and its image try to get all humans under their control) The Revelation is all about the "time of the end" that was prophesied by Daniel. It says that these ones "came to life" and "will reign with Christ for a thousand years". This rulership was yet future.
This resurrection is "the first" one to take place. No one was raised to heavenly life before Jesus, (John 3:13) and no one was resurrected before his return. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
The "first resurrection" must be followed by another, otherwise the word "first" would be meaningless. There is obviously another resurrection to come....the one that Jehovah taught the Jews about....a resurrection back to life on earth.
Sorry but that is not what the Revelation is saying. This bride class is not taken from literal Israel. Please see previous post.
If you look up "redeemer" you will see why Jesus is called by that designation. He has redeemed all mankind with his payment of the ransom demanded under God's law, but not all will qualify to receive its benefits....they fail to live up to the terms set by God for its application.
The "goats" forfeit life completely. Jesus outlines what the goats are NOT doing, compared to the "sheep" who are carrying out what was required of them.