Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

[savagewind]

Matthew 25:31-46:

31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” (NWT)

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9:
"We are obligated always to give thanks to God for you, brothers. This is fitting, because your faith is growing exceedingly and the love of each and every one of you is increasing toward one another. 4 As a result we ourselves take pride in you among the congregations of God because of your endurance and faith in all your persecutions and the hardships that you are suffering. 5 This is a proof of the righteous judgment of God, leading to your being counted worthy of the Kingdom of God, for which you are indeed suffering.
6 This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength" (NWT)

That pretty much covers people of "all the nations". Those who 'do not know God' choose not to know him.....and those who 'know him but fail to obey him' suffer the same fate.

Then, why not explain to us what Jeremiah 39:15-18 is about?

 

[savagewind]

@Deeje I do not know if you mean it or if new light will change your mind, but what you say is that if someone does not disregard what is written about putting his trust in men including of course the governing body and obeying it, he will be considered a goat (as there are only sheep and goats) and he will be put to death because he hasn't obeyed the men of yours.

I am so very, very glad I obeyed them about not going on the internet with their crap.

 

[savagewind]

Are you able to see Eʹbed-melʹech+ the E·thi·oʹpi·an, a eunuch* in the king’s house,* was neither a Jew or an enemy of Jehovah?

That sand you are standing one is surely stubborn sand. Eʹbed-melʹech+ obeyed God and was saved, but you say a person must also obey the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a sheep and so saved.

 

[Deeje]

Romans 2:4-16:
"Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, because you do not know that God in his kindness is trying to lead you to repentance? 5 But according to your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and of the revealing of God’s righteous judgment. 6 And he will pay back to each one according to his works: 7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good; 8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be tribulation and distress on every person who works what is harmful, on the Jew first and also on the Greek; 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare."

 

[Deeje]

Are you able to see Eʹbed-melʹech+ the E·thi·oʹpi·an, a eunuch* in the king’s house,* was neither a Jew or an enemy of Jehovah?

That sand you are standing one is surely stubborn sand. Eʹbed-melʹech+ obeyed God and was saved, but you say a person must also obey the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a sheep and so saved.

"(Eʹbed-melʹech) [Servant of the King].
An Ethiopian eunuch in the house of King Zedekiah who, by his course of action, demonstrated that he was in full agreement with the work of Jehovah’s prophet Jeremiah. When the princes of Judah falsely charged Jeremiah with sedition, Zedekiah surrendered the prophet into their hands. These princes then took Jeremiah and threw him into the miry cistern of Malchijah in the Courtyard of the Guard, there to die without food. (Jer 38:4-6) Courageously, notwithstanding the danger in which it placed him because of the prevailing bitter hatred for Jeremiah and his message, Ebed-melech publicly approached the king seated in the Gate of Benjamin and there presented an appeal in behalf of Jeremiah. Zedekiah responded favorably. Then Ebed-melech, at the king’s command, took 30 men to the cistern and let down ropes with worn-out rags and pieces of cloth for Jeremiah to place under his armpits in order to bring him up out of the cistern. (Jer 38:7-13) Likely Zedekiah directed Ebed-melech to take 30 men along, not that so many men were needed to get Jeremiah out of the cistern, but in order to effect a successful deliverance despite any possible interference on the part of the princes or the priests. Because of this righteous act toward God’s prophet, Ebed-melech was assured by Jehovah, through Jeremiah, that he would not perish during the Babylonian siege but would be furnished an escape.—Jer 39:15-18" (Insight Volume 2)

Ebed-Melech actively supported God's servant, Jeremiah, even risking his own life to do so.

 

[savagewind]

Romans 2:4-16:
"Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, because you do not know that God in his kindness is trying to lead you to repentance? 5 But according to your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and of the revealing of God’s righteous judgment. 6 And he will pay back to each one according to his works: 7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good; 8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be tribulation and distress on every person who works what is harmful, on the Jew first and also on the Greek; 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare."

OK. I do not know why you post scripture which argues MY point.

You say there are only sheep and goats. Sheep obey Jehovah's Witnesses and goats do not.
What happens to the goats in your opinion?

 

[savagewind]

"(Eʹbed-melʹech) [Servant of the King].
An Ethiopian eunuch in the house of King Zedekiah who, by his course of action, demonstrated that he was in full agreement with the work of Jehovah’s prophet Jeremiah. When the princes of Judah falsely charged Jeremiah with sedition, Zedekiah surrendered the prophet into their hands. These princes then took Jeremiah and threw him into the miry cistern of Malchijah in the Courtyard of the Guard, there to die without food. (Jer 38:4-6) Courageously, notwithstanding the danger in which it placed him because of the prevailing bitter hatred for Jeremiah and his message, Ebed-melech publicly approached the king seated in the Gate of Benjamin and there presented an appeal in behalf of Jeremiah. Zedekiah responded favorably. Then Ebed-melech, at the king’s command, took 30 men to the cistern and let down ropes with worn-out rags and pieces of cloth for Jeremiah to place under his armpits in order to bring him up out of the cistern. (Jer 38:7-13) Likely Zedekiah directed Ebed-melech to take 30 men along, not that so many men were needed to get Jeremiah out of the cistern, but in order to effect a successful deliverance despite any possible interference on the part of the princes or the priests. Because of this righteous act toward God’s prophet, Ebed-melech was assured by Jehovah, through Jeremiah, that he would not perish during the Babylonian siege but would be furnished an escape.—Jer 39:15-18" (Insight Volume 2)

Ebed-Melech actively supported God's servant, Jeremiah, even risking his own life to do so.

Someone asked about Jehovah's Witness propaganda. "In full agreement" is such propaganda. What it means is there is nothing, absolutely nothing, in scripture which proves that Ebedmelech was such, but it helps the case of the governing body to be getting people to obey them.
Jeremiah 39:18

18 “‘For I will surely provide you with escape, and you will not fall by the sword. You will have your life* as a spoil,*+because you trusted in me,’+ declares Jehovah.”

Does it really say, like you imply, that he trusting in Jeremiah? I am sure it says he trusted in Jehovah. You are not twisting, are you?

 

[savagewind]

I love that you @Deeje make this funny. I thought of something more. YOU say Ebed was saved because he trusted in Jeremiah the prophet, but Jehovah's Witnesses are not prophets, so that he trusted in him has nothing to do with trusting in JWs. Right?

I think that you twist much better than me. Do you also dance?

 

[savagewind]

Jesus wants to say something. Is that ok here?

He says that anyone not going through the door but climbing in another way is a thief.
He is the door, the way, the truth and the life.
Going in through the rear means reasoning with the subconscious and is something the leaders of the JWs do a lot of. An example, clear as the day, is them saying

An Ethiopian eunuch in the house of King Zedekiah who, by his course of action, demonstrated that he was in full agreement with the work of Jehovah’s prophet Jeremiah.

But, we all can see that they made a mistake. JWs are not prophets, but they do have have work. Don't they?

 

[Deeje]

OK. I do not know why you post scripture which argues MY point.

You say there are only sheep and goats. Sheep obey Jehovah's Witnesses and goats do not.
What happens to the goats in your opinion?

Sheep obey Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ appointed the slave to "feed" his household. We are not told to feed ourselves...there is no self-service at Jehovah's table, but 'all you can eat' at the other one.

We are admonished to obey our leaders in the congregation. (Hebrews 13:17) They are our shepherds, not our masters.

Just as a governing body directed the congregations back in the first century, so JW have a governing body to direct God's people today.
Israel had appointed leaders too. What is your beef with them apart from not wanting to be told what to believe, but wanting to decide it all for yourself? That attitude the human race in trouble in the first place.

 

[savagewind]

Sheep obey Jesus Christ.

I agree with this. YOUR JC can't speak to you. He doesn't speak to the governing body either.

Jesus Christ appointed the slave to "feed" his household.

This is your opinion and you are free to have it.

We are not told to feed ourselves...

Just so you know, there is a difference between the feeder and the fed. Scripture you use to prove we are to be fed is about the feeder not the fed. Look at it again. Is there anything about those being fed? I do not think so.

there is no self-service at Jehovah's table, but 'all you can eat' at the other one.

Well, it is written that the Kingdom of God is not about eating, but go ahead and make it about eating. You are free to do that.

We are admonished to obey our leaders in the congregation. (Hebrews 13:17)

This isn't even a little bit funny. Those might be the saddest words I will ever read.

They are our shepherds, not our masters.

I know you believe this. I know your shepherds are appointed by men and not by God. OK?

Just as a governing body directed the congregations back in the first century, so JW have a governing body to direct God's people today.

Says you. I was told Psalms 146:3. Do you note that most people (or all, I do not know) that get taught by JWs do not know the Bible before you come? If I had known it I would see that you are false. Do you understand?

Israel had appointed leaders too.

This is where knowing the meaning of ALL scripture inspired can help you. If you were being taught it then up into your little head would pop, 1 Samuel 8:7 OK?

What is your beef with them apart from not wanting to be told what to believe, but wanting to decide it all for yourself?

Are you are being told what to believe and I should too, in your opinion? What about Proverbs 3:5?

That attitude the human race in trouble in the first place.

Maybe you do not realize that without the first place trouble we would not have Jesus.

 

[savagewind]

@Deeje please pretend for a minute that you may listen to someone not a man and something not a governing body.

Hebrews 13:17 is translated "obey" but look it up (it is called "study") and you will see it means, "yield". Look up the verb yield and see the antonyms of it.

Here:

• deny
• hold
• keep
• lose
• refuse

• take
• withhold
• withstand
• counter
• disallow

• disapprove
• oppose
• prevent
• reject
• veto

Hebrews 13:17 means do not do to those taking the lead the opposite of yield.
It doesn't mean they are to be obeyed because, what if they are wrong?
It means do not fight them. Look! Matthew 15:14

To yield to anyone taking the lead is to obey Romans 13:1

Not yielding means you might be actually fighting against God.

It might look as though i am fighting them. If you are who you say you are, a woman, do you see me fighting any man?

I love you Deeje!

 

[savagewind]

Let's talk about obey. I obey Psalms 146:3 @Deeje, you don't. I obey Revelation 2:7, you don't. (unless, of course, you call the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses God's spirit). I obey Proverbs 3:5, you don't. I obey Matthew 7:15, you don't. I keep this warning at Matthew 24:24, you don't.

By the way, Bible scripture was written by men and translated and copied by men so to lean on what it says is to disregard what it says at the same time which, I think, should be called crazy. Crazy people are unpredictable. Aren't they?

Do I lean?

 

[savagewind]

Proverbs 3:5 @Deeje do you lean? I realize you believe it might be a sin to lean on your own understanding, but isn't it a fact that all governing body members lean on THEIR own understanding? Aren't you leaning on human understanding?

How I do not lean. I do not believe that what I think I know will do anything for me except waste time.

What do YOU think Deeje? Do you believe I love you?

 

[savagewind]

Am I right that you think it is a sin for a person to lean on her own understanding?
But that you do not think it is a sin for a person to lean on another person's understanding?

You say that you answer my questions, but that I keep asking them. I remember one question, just one, that you attempted to answer.
I asked who you will believe in after the governing body members get taken to Heaven and you said that they are training men to do their job in the stead.

As far as I know those brothers are being trained to look up answers in the Watchtower. How are they being trained to hear Jesus Christ? What if somebody has a question that was not answered in the Watchtower or one which the answer was changed? How is a trained brother to decide which answer is the right one?

Well, I suppose it IS on topic because the right answer is The Holy Spirit.

So another question gets planted. Why not NOW?

 

[savagewind]

I want to explain the question.

The governing body members are guided by The Holy Spirit.
They will be leaving to join Jesus in Heaven.
The brothers who are not 144,000 must trust that the governing body is guided by The Holy Spirit.
When the 144,000 are all gone the brothers who are left must trust in The Holy Spirit to guide them. Right?

According to eating at the table of Jehovah @Deeje, it is not allowed for them to be guided by it NOW.
It will be an interesting transition. Don't you think? How will it go?

So the question.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to think anything different than what the governing body feeds them (Compare Romans 14:17),
but when the governing body is gone the brothers must know how to feed you too. How will they know? How will you know to trust them?

 

[savagewind]

Any other religion is not much different, but there are none like the JWs who divide the 144,000. Are there? Should I go troll them too? Tell me where they are, and I will! Oh fun!

The teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses.

All governing body members can be and are guided by The Holy Spirit.
They seem to be able to train other men to be guided by it too.
An individual who is not a governing body and who is not trained by it is not guided by The Holy Spirit.

The reason seems to be well hidden.

Can you make some sense of this please?

What is the reason why brothers taking the lead are guided by The Holy Spirit, but sheep who follow can't/shouldn't be/aren't (pick one) be guided by The Holy Spirit?

Do not tell another lie @Deeje, because it just isn't right to lie. Is it? Compare Ephesians 4:25

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Do not tell another lie @Deeje, because it just isn't right to lie. Is it? Compare Ephesians 4:25

They first have to determine if you are "entitled" to the truth! If they determine you aren't, then they can lie to you and it's not a sin.

 

[savagewind]

They not only divide the 144,000 but they also divide the Holy Spirit.

How so?

Jesus is always with The Holy Spirit as he always does the will of The Father. In the last days, they have Jesus in Heaven and Jesus on Earth at the same time. According to them, Jesus is a lamb in Heaven opening scrolls and he is also the rider of the white horse who will/was (pick one) let go to conquer by the opening of the scroll.

I know you don't understand. Imagine?

 

[moorea944]

They not only divide the 144,000 but they also divide the Holy Spirit.

How so?

Jesus is always with The Holy Spirit as he always does the will of The Father. In the last days, they have Jesus in Heaven and Jesus on Earth at the same time. According to them, Jesus is a lamb in Heaven opening scrolls and he is also the rider of the white horse who will/was (pick one) let go to conquer by the opening of the scroll.

I know you don't understand. Imagine?

Not quite sure what your saying here. Divide the Holy Spirit? How can you divide the power of God? Your not saying that the HS is a person or something like that are you...