Let's talk about Satan

[Dawnofhope]

You stole what I was going to say!

Great to see a debate with such diverse perspectives. Kind of reminds me of the tower of Babel though where meaning is lost in the cacophany of words

 

[OurCreed]

Satan is simply an allegorical way of describing the evil state of man. He is not a separate embodied being floating around the universe/earth and making us humans do evil things. If this was the case, then God cannot punish any individual for their evil actions, because we were under the influence of another entity controlling us, thoughts, actions, whatever. Humans, when they go against the Divine laws and act evil in nature, they are basically satan.

 

[omega2xx]

Ok, you either literally have some sort of memory disorder or are the most disingenuous person I have ever come across. I mean, I've seen some pretty dishonest arguments, but pretending you didn't even post at all is taking it to a new level. Since you either can't remember posting or are going to pretend you didn't, let me remind you with some evidence of you ..well..posting.

mbdrums

My post #61, in reply to user mbdrums, where I challenged his claim that 'evil is measurable by science'

your post #65 where you came to his defense and asked me to quote where he claimed that

my post #71 where I provide that quote and ask you if you would like to try to support the original claim made by user mbdrums(since you inserted yourself into the exchange)

your post #101 where you glibly ducked that challenge without actually responding to it.

My post #114 where I point out that you have come to user mbdrums aid yet backed off of the actual subject matter.

This seems to be where you forgot you were even posting. Where am I? wheres my pants? Who are these people?

You're a riot buddy.

Let me give you my rule---If you don't back quote, I am not going to scroll back looking for things you said.

If you are specific in a post to me, I will respond. I will not backtrack.

 

[Rival]

It may be that apostate Jews took religious ideas from Zoroastrian religion, but this occurred long after the events in the Hebrew Scriptures, including it's references to Satan, were recorded. Further, the worship of many gods in ZoroastrianIsm bears no resemblance at all to the exclusive worship of the one true God Jehovah, IMO.

Zoroastrianism has only one God.

 

[omega2xx]

Looks like Genesis was written around 900bc. Pyramid texts were 2400 bc and we know the religions were formed sooner.

It is highly doubtful that you have any substantial evidence when Genesis was written. However it is irrelevant It goes back to the beginning of time, which is before any records you have of Egypt or when religions started.

The only thing I am concerned about is not who wrote it or when it was written, but is it true. Most of which accept by faith alone.

 

[rusra02]

Zoroastrianism has only one God.

"The Zend-Avesta, the sacred Zoroastrian writings, actually contain prayers to fire, to water, and to planets as well as to the light of the sun, moon, and stars. Fire is even referred to as the son of Ahura Mazda."
Why pray to fire and water if they are not "god's"?

 

[Rival]

"The Zend-Avesta, the sacred Zoroastrian writings, actually contain prayers to fire, to water, and to planets as well as to the light of the sun, moon, and stars. Fire is even referred to as the son of Ahura Mazda."
Why pray to fire and water if they are not "god's"?

The Zend-Avesta came long after Zoroaster. The Gathas written by Zoroaster himself praise and worship Ahura Mazda and him only. Zoroaster specifically denied worship of other deities. Reform Zoroastrians reject the Zend-Avesta because it came later and is riddled with pre-Zoroastrian beliefs.
#ExZoroastrian

 

[Rival]

What about non-Reform Zoroastrians?

The majority of these will be the Indian Parsis, whose faith has become so steeped in other culture (India), tradition and archaic law that I'm not even sure what religion they are anymore. To me, they mostly just seem Zoroastrian in name.
Most Western Zoro converts are reform, as far as I know.
I would surmise that any Zoroastrians who worship other gods are going against their Prophet's teaching. However, this religion is so small, it only has about 2,000 adherents, and many of these are persecuted by Islamic authorities as they live mostly in Iran so that we have few studies on their actual current beliefs.

 

[Alan McDougall]

Not a deity nor a symbol. Just an angel doing his job like all the others.

Nonsense Satan is as real as Almighty God who created him. This "symbol" will take you with it to hell. The devils main deception is to make you believe he does not exist and you have fallen for it!

 

[Rival]

Nonsense Satan is as real as Almighty God who created him. This "symbol" will take you with it to hell. The devils main deception is to make you believe he does not exist and you have fallen for it!

Tumah never said Satan wasn't real, or just a symbol. Judaism has a different view than xianity. In Judaism (@Tumah correct me if I err), Satan is an angel (messenger) under God's authority. He does not reside in Hell, nor is he evil. One need only read the book of Job to see the dynamic between HaShem and the Satan.

Also, it would be great if you could prefix this with 'I believe that...' otherwise you are preaching; in this case preaching at Tumah, who I'm sure doesn't appreciate it.

 

[Tumah]

Nonsense Satan is as real as Almighty God who created him. This "symbol" will take you with it to hell. The devils main deception is to make you believe he does not exist and you have fallen for it!

Have you taken your meds today?
Allow me to requote myself

Not a deity nor a symbol. Just an angel doing his job like all the others.​

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Let me give you my rule---If you don't back quote, I am not going to scroll back looking for things you said.

If you are specific in a post to me, I will respond. I will not backtrack.

Yes yes I've already come to realize you can't follow a thread. I won't be wasting m time trying to converse with you again, no worries.

 

[1137]

It is highly doubtful that you have any substantial evidence when Genesis was written. However it is irrelevant It goes back to the beginning of time, which is before any records you have of Egypt or when religions started.

The only thing I am concerned about is not who wrote it or when it was written, but is it true. Most of which accept by faith alone.

So you just accept on blind faith that your one specific book is more valid than others?

 

[omega2xx]

Yes yes I've already come to realize you can't follow a thread. I won't be wasting m time trying to converse with you again, no worries.

My prayers have been answered.

 

[omega2xx]

So you just accept on blind faith that your one specific book is more valid than others?

Yes but my faith is not blind. yours that the Bible is not more valid than other is blind faith.

 

[Sutekh]

My prayers have been answered.

Give us your proof then.

 

[omega2xx]

Give us your proof then.

It seems no one in this forum understand sarcasm.

 

[SpiritQuest]

Do you believe Satan is a very real deity, or is Satan just a symbol? It seems to me that monotheism would require the latter, but what's your viewpoint?

Feel free to include other "dark lords" and religious text if you want.

Satan can be described as a metaphor for the human ego, it is that which sees everything as separate from the universal oneness of the all. Satan is the belief in death and fear, accusation and condemnation. But in truth, there is no death, there is only perceptual change, which people interpret as time.

 

[Native]

"Satan" is just short for "Saturnus", the Roman Creation God of Fertility and as such just an archetypical symbol for "all things sexy" (which most religions just allows inside marriage - otherwise it is sinful, hence the bad name and reputation of the ancient fertility deity). Read more here - Man and Animal. Monsters and fabulous Creatures

 

[Liu]

"Satan" is just short for "Saturnus", the Roman Creation God of Fertility and as such just an archetypical symbol for "all things sexy" (which most religions just allows inside marriage - otherwise it is sinful, hence the bad name and reputation of the ancient fertility deity). Read more here - Man and Animal. Monsters and fabulous Creatures

In case anyone believes this - it's bull****. And your "source" doesn't even mention it.

Also, I associate Saturnus rather with depression and restriction (by planetary associations), with wealth, with rebirth, agriculture and the circle of the year, and, due to its equation with the Greek Kronos, with tyranny and cruelty.