Let's talk about Satan

[viole]

Think about the 3 requirements for the Sabbath, which is for us, not for Him"

--Remember it. God can't forget it.
--Keep it holy. God can do nothing else. He made it holy.
--no work. God works ever day keeping His universe working properly.

Is that a lot of work? And does that entail that on the Sabbaths the Universe starts getting astray (assuming He also rests those days)

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Source please.

Source please? Didnt He rest on the seventh day?

God works every day---Jn 5:17

Well, apparently not.

Ciao

- viole

 

[omega2xx]

Is that a lot of work? And does that entail that on the Sabbaths the Universe starts getting astray (assuming He also rests those days)

Ciao

- viole

I don't know how much word it is to keep the universe working correctly, God may have created it in such a way, that it will always work perfectly. God works on the Sabbath.

 

[omega2xx]

Source please? Didnt He rest on the seventh day?

He rested from the work of creation---it was all done then---Gen 2:1-2

He continues to work to keep things working right.

Well, apparently not.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Native]

In case anyone believes this - it's bull****. And your "source" doesn't even mention it.

Also, I associate Saturnus rather with depression and restriction (by planetary associations), with wealth, with rebirth, agriculture and the circle of the year, and, due to its equation with the Greek Kronos, with tyranny and cruelty.

Yes "the source mention this" because I am the source of the website and I told you so

Your planetary association is bullxxxx because planets got their names AFTER the Roman Pantheon deities of which the fertility god, Saturnus, was one of these. Planets can of course not have gendered names because they are just round dots in the Sky and looks nothing like a gendered being.

Besides this: How on Earth can a deity of "wealth, with rebirth, agriculture and the circle of the year" be contraditionary described in dualistic terms as "tyrannic and cruel"?

 

[Liu]

Yes "the source mention this" because I am the source of the website and I told you so

Okay, but you didn't explain how this would have happened. The name Satan occurs in Judaism much earlier than the times in which they had any frequent contact to Romans, and first referred to the punishing aspect of YHVH, far from being a deity of sex and fun.
Or do you say that due to the similar name between Saturn and Satan, the Christians or Jews took aspects from Saturnus and associated them with Satan? Seems unlikely to me, too, but far more likely than your claim the name of Satan would be derived of the name of Saturnus.

Your planetary association is bullxxxx because planets got their names AFTER the Roman Pantheon deities of which the fertility god, Saturnus, was one of these. Planets can of course not have gendered names because they are just round dots in the Sky and looks nothing like a gendered being.

Besides this: How on Earth can a deity of "wealth, with rebirth, agriculture and the circle of the year" be contraditionary described in dualistic terms as "tyrannic and cruel"?

Easy, deities can stand for different things at different times, and the equation with Kronos only happened at a time of strong cultural contact between Greeks and Romans, which was relatively late in the history of Saturnus.
I only listed what Saturnus is associated with nowadays, whereas you seem to have made a historic claim.

 

[Native]

Or do you say that due to the similar name between Saturn and Satan, the Christians or Jews took aspects from Saturnus and associated them with Satan?

Yes, and they (priests and politicians) used this in order to govern the people.

Easy, deities can stand for different things at different times, and the equation with Kronos only happened at a time of strong cultural contact between Greeks and Romans, which was relatively late in the history of Saturnus.

The dieties concerned all belongs to the creation tellings and they were known by people from all over the world long before any migrations took place - and they all can be compared to each other. So, my "historic claim" goes far back to the very times of creation.

Regarding "deities can stand for different things at different times" I really don´t think so. The creative forces of creation can "split up" in different stages of creation but their archetypical qualities is the same and unchanged.

Planets as deities? No way. You have to have more than just one dot in the Sky in order to imagine something whch can be mentioned in gendered names as it is the case with the Roman naming of planets. This demands either a suitable star constellation or the very contours of the Milky Way as illustrated several places in my Mytho-Cosmological website - Ancient Science. The Ancient and native Way of Knowledge

 

[Liu]

Yes, and they (priests and politicians) used this in order to govern the people.

That's an entirely different claim than what you made in your first comment.
The Christian concept of Satan seems to have more in common with some other pagan deities than with Saturnus, but admittedly, he might have been among the inspirational sources. I don't know that much about earlier Christianity, though, so I don't actually know whether these concepts were formed more by priests and other authorities or by common consensus among the people.

The dieties concerned all belongs to the creation tellings and they were known by people from all over the world long before any migrations took place - and they all can be compared to each other. So, my "historic claim" goes far back to the very times of creation.

Okay, you have a very different history belief than I have. I don't belief in creation, at least not in that humans were already around at that time. Migrations took place such a long time ago that you won't convince me that the deities who we know now already were known before the first migrations.

Regarding "deities can stand for different things at different times" I really don´t think so. The creative forces of creation can "split up" in different stages of creation but their archetypical qualities is the same and unchanged.

The archetypes might be unchangeable, but we were talking about names here, not about the underlying archetypes. And those names of deities of course stood for different things/archetypes at different times, that's common knowledge.

Planets as deities? No way. You have to have more than just one dot in the Sky in order to imagine something whch can be mentioned in gendered names as it is the case with the Roman naming of planets. This demands either a suitable star constellation or the very contours of the Milky Way as illustrated several places in my Mytho-Cosmological website - Ancient Science. The Ancient and native Way of Knowledge

As I mentioned before, at that point of my post I was talking about contemporary beliefs, and nowadays it is established to name the planets by deities and sometimes even equate them in astrology.

Honestly, I have the feeling our worldviews differ too much to even properly discuss such with each other.

 

[Native]

I don't belief in creation, at least not in that humans were already around at that time.

The validity of the Creation Story is not a historical question of "being around when it happend", but of being present and spiritually in contact with the creative forces which still works today and seeing spiritually back in the formational processes, thus gathering cosmological knowledge of it all.

As I mentioned before, at that point of my post I was talking about contemporary beliefs, and nowadays it is established to name the planets by deities and sometimes even equate them in astrology.

Just ponder over this: Observe and study the ancient 5 known planets in the night Sky and see if they appears as gendered deities with different powers and gendered attributes. If you still believe in planetary astrology after some ponderings, we´ll better stop our discussion here.

 

[Liu]

Just ponder over this: Observe and study the ancient 5 known planets in the night Sky and see if they appears as gendered deities with different powers and gendered attributes. If you still believe in planetary astrology after some ponderings, we´ll better stop our discussion here.

I did never say that I'd belief in astrology - I only said that there is a general belief among contemporary people who belief in astrology that the planets can be equated or associated with certain deities.
Personally I don't belief in astrology at all.

 

[Native]

I did never say that I'd belief in astrology - I only said that there is a general belief among contemporary people who belief in astrology that the planets can be equated or associated with certain deities.
Personally I don't belief in astrology at all.

This is my very point. When the Romans gave names to planets, they used the names from their Pantheon deities when adopting Christianity. The Pantheon deities belongs to the realms of the Milky Way Myths and the Story of Creation from all over the world.

Here Saturnus represents the contours of the Milky Way on the northern hemisphere as illustrated here - The Greatest God in Heaven - This deity is also described in the numerous other cultural Stories of Creation, which is why this deity Saturnus/Saturn/Satan just is a benign creator and not a dualistic figure at all.

 

[Liu]

This is my very point. When the Romans gave names to planets, they used the names from their Pantheon deities when adopting Christianity.

Do you have a source on that? I don't know when the Romans started naming the planets by deities. I do know however that that was already done by the Babylonians, but you may have a point here that the equation of Saturnus with the planet happened not early in Roman history.

The Pantheon deities belongs to the realms of the Milky Way Myths and the Story of Creation from all over the world.
Here Saturnus represents the contours of the Milky Way on the northern hemisphere as illustrated here - The Greatest God in Heaven - This deity is also described in the numerous other cultural Stories of Creation, which is why this deity Saturnus/Saturn/Satan just is a benign creator and not a dualistic figure at all.

Even if it were the case that those deities of different cultures which you equate here actually stem from the time before those cultures separated, and did not develop independent of each other, that wouldn't mean that they have stayed the same over time. Say the creator gods actually exist, and that we still use their original names, that still doesn't mean that when we nowadays use one of the names that was originally used for them we'd still refer to the same entity.
The name of Satan was used most often in dualistic concepts, so it makes no sense to say, just because it sounds similar to another culture's not-so-dualistic deity it itself would not refer to a dualistic figure.

 

[Christ's Prophet]

Do you believe Satan is a very real deity, or is Satan just a symbol? It seems to me that monotheism would require the latter, but what's your viewpoint?

Feel free to include other "dark lords" and religious text if you want.

You should consider this passage of Scripture:-
Job 2:1-6 (KJV)
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Here we have record that God had a conversation with Satan. So Satan is a real person. He likes to keep his presence a secret so that he will not be confronted with his wickedness.
The reason there is so much evil in the world is because of him. I will certainly not give any care for Satan, because he cares nothing for you and hates you and will despitefully use you as he has done to unwitting people throughout the millennia.
But rather give your attention to Jesus Christ who has created you in His image, and has died and been resurrected and paid the penalty for your sins, so that you can live for an eternity with Him. If you ask Him, He will save you and put His hedge of safety around you. That’s the options, LOVE or HATE.
Certainty for eternity

 

[Onyx]

Here we have record that God had a conversation with Satan. So Satan is a real person. He likes to keep his presence a secret so that he will not be confronted with his wickedness.

In your view, would you say Satan has a will of his own, or performs the will of God through the various deceptions and temptations?

 

[JerryL]

You should consider this passage of Scripture:-

Maybe Satan won?

Maybe scripture is an elaborate lie by a powerful satan-god in order to fool humanity.

There's no way to tell.

 

[EtuMalku]

Sorry I'm late to the party!


Who the Hell is Satan?

Here's my understanding of this "Old Enemy" as the literary scholar Neil Forsyth coined and what I consider to be the foundation of what is called Satanism.

Satan has always existed, only under other names and guises, Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche . . . a meme, or what some may now call a "Godform", I think the Magus of Chaos, Peter Carroll uses that term?

This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is a social and cultural phenomenon as old as the mind of humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them" or "Me" and "the rest of you" . . . etc.

Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", which excluded all who were not Egyptian to be relegated to 'non-human', the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi" (barbarians). The Jewish Essenes called anyone not an Essene "ha satan" (the adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).

"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference"
________________________________
- William Scott Green
(Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion).


So, who/what is this Satan? He simply is who you are not!

____________________________
IAMTHATIAMNOT
Etu Malku V° HH☿D

 

[nasheayahu]

Which shaton? There millions of them?