Peace said:JazakAllah khayran brother!!!:clap
You too my dear sister. Thanks ..
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Peace said:JazakAllah khayran brother!!!:clap
The Truth said:Hi there dear Apple
Yes of course, in the arabic text God didn't say in this chapter which by the way is equal to 1/3 of the Quran because if you were an arab you would know the miracle here. There are 2 ways in here to say it:
1- If God said i don't have a son in this miraclous verse so the reader might think that God MAY had a son (God forbid) in the past.
2- If God said i didn't have a son so again the reader might think that God MAY have a son in the future.
Therefore, God said that he He begetteth not, nor is He begotten.
لم يلد ولم يولد
This is the miracle of Quran. You just have to know arabic well to understand what i'm talking about in here.
Quote:
Further, 4.171 states quite clearly that it is a Spirit from him through which Mary conceives Jesus ..NOT allah
What are you talking about?
Your example was taken out of context.
When it is followed by a proposition, the meaning of the digression is either the canceling of what precedes, as in:
وقالوا اتخذ الرحمن ولدا سبحنهبلعباد مكرمون
You said it yourself, it's canceling the words before it so عباد مكرمون is canceling اتخذ الرحمنولدا.
Your point?
Quote:
Allah is never once mentioned in this ayah.
.Quote:
Only the Messiah (Jesus) is mentioned directly by name
Al-Masih disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant, He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). (4:172)
Fact of the matter is .there is no classic Arabic word Trinity.I don't think that you are not aware of the trinity.
Anyway, you can find the definition of the trinity in here:
http://www.answers.com/trinity&r=67
Quote:
First of all, these are two different words.
Quote:
Secondly, alkitabi does not refer to the Koran.
It refers only to the scriptures of the Jews & Christians
Firstly, noor: is the noune. نور
noora: without "tanween" نورا
nooran:" with "tanween" نوراً
nooraan: 2 lights. نوران
Secondly, it called "alkitab" but not "alkitabi" because when you mention the word book alone without the word after it so you must say "alkitab" but when you mention it along with the word after it so at this moment you can say "alkitabi ....".
Got my point?
Anyway, i just wan t to drive your attention to my long post which proved that the light mean many things like Quran, Gospel and Torah but i guess you forgot to read them or somthing.
Apple Pie said:How does alkitab refer to the Koran ?
Apple Pie said:Greetings Truth,
Thanks for the continued effort in your replies
Sura 112 never denies that allah had a Son in the past.
4.171 makes the claim that allah has a Spirit (same as the Holy Bible).
This, then, would make allah a plural entity
It cancels the negative that occurs in 21.25
المقربونis the word that occurs in 4.172
This is not the word allah
Fact of the matter is .there is no classic Arabic word Trinity.
The word is THREE .not Trinity
Nehustan said:You are without doubt the strangest chap I have ever come across...
لَّن يَسْتَنكِفَ الْمَسِيحُ أَن يَكُونَ عَبْداً لِّلّهِ وَلاَ الْمَلآئِكَةُ الْمُقَرَّبُونَ وَمَن يَسْتَنكِفْ عَنْ عِبَادَتِهِ وَيَسْتَكْبِرْ فَسَيَحْشُرُهُمْ إِلَيهِ جَمِيعًا
Here (highlighted in Green) is the contruct 'Lilillah' which means
"To Allah"
لِّلّهِ
the whole contruct is 'Li +Allah' but due to the vowels it becomes 'Lilillah'
ألمدرسة
'The School'
becomes
للمدرسة
'To the School'
You will notice the difference in this two constructs is due to the many 'lams' in the 'Lililla' both 'lams' carry shadda'
and your translation of
الْمُقَرَّبُونَ
as the word that means 'Allah', well frankly I'm lost for words (not the first time in this thread!!!)
There seems to be some confusion regarding terminologyNehustan said:نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَأَنزَلَ التَّوْرَاةَ وَالإِنجِيلَ
Here 'The Quran' (the Recital) is referred to as a book. I am taking that you mean that initially 'The Quran' was not a book, but recited by Hafiz.
The translation is rendered....
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). (3:3)
Apple Pie said:Let’s look…
مقربون= “muqarraboona”
“muqarraboona” definition:
Those who are nearest (to God). It comes from the root "qariba"
Apple Pie said:قُرْآنَ is so called because it has collected the histories of the prophets, and commands and prohibitions, and promises and threats, and the verses or signs, and the chapters.
Nehustan said:Quran, comes from the Arabic meaning reading, recital, recitation. The first word said by Gabriel to Muhammad which upon completion was the first revealed surah was from this root 'Iqra'. This command was thus 'Read' (Recite) and thus the Quran is so called. You obviously do not believe that the angels (whatever they may be) inspired Muhammad or that Gabriel relayed the 'Recital' to Muhammad. Something about inventing a lie springs to mind, and Allah is just.
The Truth said:[/size][/font]
Observe the Koranic usages [/center]
· 56.11 These will be those Nearest to Allah:
· 83.21 To which bear witness those Nearest (to Allah).
· 83.28 A spring, from (the waters) whereof drink those Nearest to Allah.
Interestingly, all Koranic usages of the word almuqarraboona differ from a verse to another according the meaning of the verse and this is the miracle of Quran.
Further, look at the astounding context of 83.21
- 83.19 And what will explain to thee what Illiyin is?
- 83.20 (There is) a Register (fully) inscribed
- 83.21 To which bear witness those Nearest (to Allah).
Sound familiar ?
Of course not, because we can't use our own translations and fabricatations ignoring the arabic original text or the authorised translations which all scholars agree about.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/images/professional/misc/quotes/quot-top-left.gifQuote:http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/images/professional/misc/quotes/quot-top-right.gifhttp://www.religiousforums.com/forum/images/professional/misc/quotes/quot-by-left.gifOriginally Posted by Apple Piehttp://www.religiousforums.com/forum/images/professional/misc/quotes/quot-by-right.gifhttp://www.religiousforums.com/forum/images/professional/misc/quotes/quot-top-right-10.gifقُرْآنَ is so called because it has collected the histories of the prophets, and commands and prohibitions, and promises and threats, and the verses or signs, and the chapters. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/images/professional/misc/quotes/quot-bot-left.gifhttp://www.religiousforums.com/forum/images/professional/misc/quotes/quot-bot-right.gif
Your refernce please !!! , because Quran is not what you call it.
Thanks
The Truth said:You are most welcome dear Apple Pie.
Enlighten me, how is that?
Use your dictionary and refernces to translate the arabic word لم يلد(He begetteth not).
Quote:
4.171 makes the claim that allah has a Spirit (same as the Holy Bible).
This, then, would make allah a plural entity
The possessive pronoun hu makes it his own spirit.O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him .... (4:171)
Allah said Jesus is his word and a spirit from him not his own spirit. وَرُوحٌمِنْهُ
How does that make Allah a plural sir?
Ali Ansari said:well Apple pie I read your topic and very good replies given by my Muslim brothers. I only want to ask you a question that you are try to prove that jesus is God, son of god ,and you are trying to prove trinity form Quran which you can never prove even from your own bible. I was only laughing on your Misquotations, misinterpretations and mistranslations.
I want to ask you that do you believe in Quran as a word of God?
if No then why you are trying to prove those things, for what?
if yes then why don't you accept the truth. of Quran & Islam?
Apple Pie said:Do you have any Koranic ayahs that you could reference for this assertion...?
Thanks...
Apple Pie said:Hi Truth,
You can verify the references that I have provided, as truth...
Instead of just changing my post to fit your paradigm...
Apple Pie said:Do you have any Koranic ayahs that you could reference for this assertion...?
Thanks...
Nehustan said:It's inherent in the semitic languages (i.e. Hebrew, Amharic, Amaraic, Arabic), most words, even those that contain more than three letters derive from a three lettered root. Thus the word Quran, and the word Iqra share the root which at first glance would be QRA, tho of course the rules are very sublime, and as I am not an Arab speaker I make no apologies for not being able to give you a lesson in Arabic, tho I'm not sure it would make any difference even if I had degrees in Arabic coming out of my ears.
As to Quranic reference, well given that you believe the book to be a cut and past job from the bible, what validity would it have anyway. You have already proposed its nothing more than a case of plagiarism from previous books, you have no respect for it, as you have cleary illustrated by your editing which verges on non-linear (sorry for my audio-video editing analogy). So why should we waste the Quran on you, as you seem to use it to validate your arguments, then rubbish it in the next breath, and that my 'friend' is not only non-linear thought (for sure thinking outside the box is sometimes good), but in your instance plainly without logic.