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Featured Jesus was NOT a capitalist

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Thief, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. He taught a gainful life

    6 vote(s)
    20.7%
  2. He taught a life of abstinence

    23 vote(s)
    79.3%
  1. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    I think the point you are missing is that Jesus' father was a carpenter. He had to sell his goods to provide for his family. He didn't give them away, nor did he simply share his creations with every loser that showed up at his door. Also, all the disciples were workmen in some form or another. They were not socialist by any means. They sold their fish for money and Matthew worked for the government; he collected taxes on this money earned. I can find nowhere were Yeshua told his followers to live in a commune. Nor could I find anywhere when He compelled others to share their stuff. As I have said before many of his parables high-lighted entrepreneurs. Jesus was no Pinko.
     
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  2. The magical volleyball

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    I think the whole bible echoes the dangers of over consumption or greed and gluttony. We as Americans use to accept this idea not just because Jesus said it but because it was common sense. Which is why there was a 90% tax rate on the wealthiest 1% to keep in check greed and to build the things that created a great society like schools and roads and bridges. Today most of the top 1% pay a lower percentage in taxes than people making between $50k and $100k.
     
  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Socialists need not live in a commune, but the apostles and some of the disciples lived and moved around together until they had to move out of eretz Israel.

    BTW, "church" in the Bible comes from the Koine Greek word "ecclesia", which means "community".

    But he did, telling people to give of their need and not just what required by the Law. This demand is repeated over and over again by Jesus and the apostles.

    Three times in Acts it says that the apostles help their purse in common.

    BTW, there are different forms of socialism, including actually most of them that actually do include elements of capitalism: Socialism - Wikipedia
     
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  4. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    Lots of people travel and work together, doesn't make them Socialists by any stretch of the imagination. Take the Mormon missionaries for instance.

    What in tarnation does this quote even mean? "...give of their need..."?


    And?
     
  5. Corvus

    Corvus Feathered eyeball connoisseur

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    Mwahahaa...oh yes.
     
  6. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    No, they don't. Check the tax rates.
     
  7. Corvus

    Corvus Feathered eyeball connoisseur

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    Jesus is not a capitalist, he is a very naughty boy.
     
  8. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    None of this has anything to do with what Jesus taught. He took the disciples away from their professions. He told them to give away all of their possessions and follow him. And, they did live in a commune.
    You are quite wrong, sir:

    13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you.
    14 You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.

    44 And all that believed were together, and had all things in common;
    45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
    32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
    33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
    34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
    35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
    36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
    37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
    31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.
    32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
    33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
    34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
    35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
    36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
    37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
    38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
    39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
    40 The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
    41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
    42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
    43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
    44 They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
    45 He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
    46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.

    1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
    2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
    3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
    4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
    5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
    6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.
    7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
     
  9. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Hello George :D
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    There's a number of Christians that defend Capitalism as a Godly invention derived from Christian values.
    Winter is truly coming.
    Do you think socialist think they won't have to work? Of course everyone, in a socialist and communist society, has to work and be productive.

    You were provided evidence of this claim. Sell your belongings, give the money to the poor.

    Meaning they were living communally, which is the "root word" of communism.

     
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  11. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    Sooo...these are your best arguments? Okay, you win.
     
  13. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    just saying.....the Temple is a house of prayer
     
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  14. The magical volleyball

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    If all you take into account is the income tax then you are right. 25% for 30k-80k and 35% for 400k and over. But most of the wealth of the 1% is recorded as capital gains and the capital gains tax is 15%. This is why most bonuses are paid in stock options and why they fight so hard to keep this tax as low as possible.
     
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  15. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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  16. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    Obviously you don't understand Capital gains. Capital gains come from money you invest and receive--wait for it--a gain. This investment money has already been taxed as income at some time previous. So not only are you misinformed, but, as you can see, the "rich" actually get taxed twice.
     
  17. Ricktheheretic

    Ricktheheretic "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law"

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    15 Then the Pharisees went and took counsel how to entangle him in his talk. 16 And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Hero′di-ans, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are true, and teach the way of God truthfully, and care for no man; for you do not regard the position of men. 17 Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” 18 But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? 19 Show me the money for the tax.” And they brought him a coin. 20 And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” 21 They said, “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Matthew 22:15-21 RSV

    19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:19-21 RSV

    24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 6:24 RSV

    25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek all these things; and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well. Matthew 6:25-33 RSV

    Sure doesn't sound like a capitalist to me.

    Here's something from a guy whos a minister Jesus was a LIBERAL
     
  18. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    Indeed it is.
    However, I am pretty sure that there were money changers there as well as merchants to provide services like food etc
    As I see it, these people provided a service to the pilgrims who come their to express their devotion to God.

    Pilgrims that come to my town to visit the abbey have a place where they can buy food as well as a shop which can change money, all within the abbey grounds.
     
  19. SpaceAgeLove

    SpaceAgeLove Sentient

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    He didn't support any sort of government on earth, only the kingdom of god. So if anything, he was advocating for a theocracy ran by god himself. Also, capitalism wasn't even invented yet. So yeah... he couldn't have been and I've never heard anyone say he was a capitalist.
     
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  20. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    The money changers were in the inner sanctum area of the temple and they were ripping off the pilgrims as well as kicking back to the Rabbis. This had absolutely nothing to do with commerce. Check out the real story of why the mc's were there to begin with.
     
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