1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Jesus was NOT a capitalist

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Thief, Jul 14, 2017.

?
  1. He taught a gainful life

    6 vote(s)
    20.7%
  2. He taught a life of abstinence

    23 vote(s)
    79.3%
  1. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    33,528
    Ratings:
    +2,046
    let's go for it
    use His own words if you can
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Terese

    Terese ॐ ātmā na deho'smi viṣṇu-śeṣo-parigrahaḥ
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,954
    Ratings:
    +2,463
    Religion:
    Gaudiya Vaiṣṇava
    Who thinks he's a capitalist?
     
  3. Corvus

    Corvus Feathered eyeball connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    602
    Ratings:
    +226
    Religion:
    Grokk-ism
    The Rich Young Man
    (Mark 10:17-31; Luke 18:18-30)

    16Just then, a man came up to Jesus and inquired, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to obtain eternal life?”

    17“Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied, “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

    18“Which ones?” the man asked.

    Jesus answered, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness,19honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.’d

    20“All these I have kept,” said the young man. “What do I still lack?”

    21Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”

    22When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.

    23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

    25When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

    26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    27“Look,” Peter replied, “we have left everything to follow You. What then will there be for us?”

    28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wifee or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.
     
  4. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    4,503
    Ratings:
    +1,079
    Religion:
    Christian
    He taught to give up wealth in this life for wealth in the next life. "Giving to the poor is laying up treasure in heaven"

    Do Not Worry
    2Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father is pleased to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide yourselves with purses that will not wear out, an inexhaustible treasure in heaven, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.…

    So Jesus was a Capitalist, teaching people to invest their money in Heaven.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    758
    Ratings:
    +513
    Religion:
    None
    That passage that @Corvus quoted is a remarkable one for a number of reasons. Does Jesus hint at salvation through good works? Does he deny his own divinity by “Why do you ask Me about what is good? There is only One who is good."?

    Anyhoo, of course the person of Jesus in the bible advocates a life of abstinence and poverty in materialistic terms, but he values "spiritual wealth". The prosperity gospel crew have completed some impressive mental gymnastics to turn that message on its head.

    There is a problem with what Jesus says if you take it to its logical conclusion. If everyone gave up everything to the poor, the only people who wouldn't be poor any more would be those who were previously poor before the Christians gave them everything! Then the previously poor people would have to give up all the wealth given to them by the new poor people who follow Jesus (who are now poor) so they would have to give up everything again..etc. [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  6. Jedster

    Jedster Bazinga

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,142
    Ratings:
    +633
    Religion:
    eclectician
    Seems to me he was a leftie.
    If he was a capitalist he wouldn't have thrown out merchants & money lenders from the temple. I see nothing wrong in providing services in a place where many travelled long distances to be and it was gathering place.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Corvus

    Corvus Feathered eyeball connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    602
    Ratings:
    +226
    Religion:
    Grokk-ism
    Ah a clever one eh? We shall have to watch you. ;)
     
  8. Corvus

    Corvus Feathered eyeball connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    602
    Ratings:
    +226
    Religion:
    Grokk-ism
    Hehe, indeed. Amusing watching them attempt to do so. Not sure Jesus would laugh though.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Corvus

    Corvus Feathered eyeball connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    602
    Ratings:
    +226
    Religion:
    Grokk-ism
    Holy Bottom Burp, I see or infer that you support Tottenham Hotspur or as I call them The Scum. Can you explain yourself?
     
  10. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    10,874
    Ratings:
    +4,255
    Religion:
    Buddhistic Panenthetic Jesusonian

    Obviously he knew that you had to earn to give it away.


    Throwing the money-changers out of the inner sanctum of the temple had absolutely nothing to so with economic theories. You might want to investigate to story a little deeper. Also, there were no merchants involved in the butt whippin'.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    4,181
    Ratings:
    +2,338
    It is still motivated by greed if you are giving up your riches in life because you expect to get something better in death. That passage not only makes Jesus and his followers look desperately greedy for the wealth of Heaven and eternal life, but it also makes them look like suckers for being taken in by such nonsense.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Sartre

    Sartre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,559
    Ratings:
    +2,687
    Religion:
    "Man makes man in order to be God"
    Jesus (providing he did actually exist,) existed more than a thousand years before capitalism did.
     
  13. Nakosis

    Nakosis Barnacle Bill the Sailor
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    6,799
    Ratings:
    +1,598
    Religion:
    Cynicism
    Perhaps Jesus was not a capitalist but the Church was...

    "Capitalism, it is usually assumed, flowered around the same time as the Enlightenment–the eighteenth century–and, like the Enlightenment, entailed a diminution of organized religion. In fact, the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages was the main locus for the first flowerings of capitalism."

    How Christianity Created Capitalism | Acton Institute


    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    21,396
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    ecumenical/unaffiliated/attend wife's Catholic church
    And remember that the apostles shared their income in common, and I do believe we all know what that means. And Jesus was no more a capitalist than I am George Clooney. :cool:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    758
    Ratings:
    +513
    Religion:
    None
    How dare you sir, please don't tell me you're a Gooner? I've now gone right off you...
    My old Mum was born in Edmonton, supporting Spurs is in the blood! ;)
     
    #15 The Holy Bottom Burp, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    21,396
    Ratings:
    +7,563
    Religion:
    ecumenical/unaffiliated/attend wife's Catholic church
    BTW, let me just add to the above that around 10 of the 613 Commandments as found in Torah dealt with various forms of taxation, not including charity, and Jesus didn't dis them: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) (see 41-51) Instead, he taught to go beyond what's required by the Law.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    15,638
    Ratings:
    +5,176
    Religion:
    Agnostic Atheist
    Given that we have no way of knowing what Jesus' actual words were, as he didn't write anything down himself, it is tough to "use his own words". But, by his actions, he seems to have preferred a more socialistic society where the main concern was that everyone is taken care of by their neighbors. Certainly capitalism would not fit into his worldview. But, he apparently did not teach abstinence. He provided alcohol to others, there is no claim in the Bible that he abstained from alcohol, and, back then, alcohol was sort of a necessity. But, when it comes to money, he said that his followers should give up all of their possessions and follow him. So, abstinence when it comes to buying nice things and such seems off limits.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    13,082
    Ratings:
    +3,750
    Religion:
    Zen Buddhism
    Well the name anyways.
     
  19. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    15,638
    Ratings:
    +5,176
    Religion:
    Agnostic Atheist
    The middle ages were more than a thousand years after Jesus. The early Church was not capitalist.
     
  20. Nakosis

    Nakosis Barnacle Bill the Sailor
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    6,799
    Ratings:
    +1,598
    Religion:
    Cynicism
    I didn't mean to imply otherwise but thanks for the correction.
     
Loading...