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Featured Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But God is NEVER going to send Jesus back to this world because Jesus already completed His mission on Earth.
    Why would God send Jesus back to tell us that He is our Lord and savior, when Jesus already did that?

    God is not interested in getting the world to believe in His son as man's savior because that is a false Christian belief made up by men since there was never anything to be saved from. Jesus was Savior but not in the sense Christians believe, not a Savior we needed to expunge us from original sin.
    God has uttered three peeps since the Bible was written.... these peeps are in the Qur'an, in the Writings of the Bab, and in the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
    I do understand how you feel about all the suffering in the world because I have suffered all my life and seen the suffering of others, and this suffering has called into question whether there is a loving God.

    You said: "70% of the world's children tells me He couldn't care less about us...."
    Do you mean the 70% of people in the world who are not Christians? Do you imagine that God cares only about Christians and not the other 70%? All humans suffer, it is part of living in a material world. Christians can pretend they don't suffer, but there is plenty of evidence that contradicts this.
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Why would that matter if Christians disagree with me? How many people do you think believed in Jesus in the early years?

    “Just how small was the Christian movement in the first century is clear from the calculations of the sociologist R Stark (1996:5-7; so too Hopkins 1998:192-193).Stark begins his analysis with a rough estimation of six million Christians in the Roman Empire (or about ten percent of the total population) at the start of the fourth century... There were 1,000 Christians in the year 40, 1,400 Christians in 50, 1,960 Christians in 60, 2,744 Christians in 70, 3,842 Christians in 80, 5,378 Christians in 90 and 7,530 Christians at the end of the first century.

    These figures are very suggestive, and reinforce the point that in its initial decades the Christian movement represented a tiny fraction of the ancient world.”
    How many Jews became Christians in the first century?

    How many people believe something has nothing to do with whether it is true or false. That is the fallacy of argumentum ad populum

    In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so." Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

    The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.

    Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
    As far as I am concerned all the predictions that Jesus made have come true. Jesus never promised to return in the same body and that has come true. Jesus promised to send the Comforter/Spirit of Truth and that has come true. Jesus is batting 1000 so far. I do not expect that to change.

    Baha'u'llah is no more dead than Jesus, since the bodies of both of them are dead. Baha'u'llah and Jesus are both alive in heaven in spiritual bodies and Baha'u'llah is ready to assist those of us who arise for the triumph of God's Cause.

    “Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 139
     
  3. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    That's because

    80% of Churchgoers Don't Read Bible Daily, LifeWay Survey Suggests

    80% of Churchgoers Don't Read Bible Daily, LifeWay Survey Suggests
     
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Oops! And thank you.
     
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  5. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    No, I meant that extreme suffering, abuse, neglect, and disease extends across all races, cultures, creeds and countries around the world--but primarily in very poor 3rd world continents like Africa and Asia. What disgusts me is that tens of thousands of children under 10 are sold into sexual and other forms of abusive slavery every year and police agencies do nothing to stop it, nevermind God. These children come from all faiths so God clearly doesn't play favorites. He's an equal-opportunity neglector.
     
    #245 SeekingAllTruth, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
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  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Thanks for that information, that tells us a lot. ;)

    But what about the Christians on this forum who cite verses and conveniently ignore all the verses I cite?
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Well your verses don't count. Sure, sure, they are in the Bible. But only True Christian™s can understand Christianity. Make sure that your belief has the True Christian™ trademark.
     
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  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I would say that God is an equal-opportunity non-intervener.
    How do you think God could fix all of that and what would happen if He did?
    Food for thought.
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But the prawblum is that all Christians BELIEVE that they understand the Bible yet they all understand it differently. o_O
    Will the True Christians please stand up and identify themselves.... not all at once now. ;)
     
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  10. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    I meant from the Christian point of view. I'm trying to assure Christians that Jesus is never coming back in any way, shape or form nor has he ever come back in the past as cOLTER keeps insisting. The reason? He never existed, or if he did he was an ordinary mortal man who died and is now dust blowing around in the Middle East. From my point of view, God is a deist God--He doesn't get involved in our affairs. We may disagree on this point but we agree very nicely on everything else. :)
     
  11. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Jesus speaks of One to come after Him. After the Sun of His religion becomes darkened with superstition and fails to give spiritual light anymore, the stars of the heaven of His faith will fall upon the earth, that is, the leaders of His faith will become primarily materialistic involving themselves in worldly affairs, conflicts and desires.

    After all these things have happened, a Great Spiritual One, with a New Name will appear bringing a new faith. (New heaven, new earth, new song, new name - see Book of Revelation.) The Bhagavad-Gita, the Holy Book of many Hindus means ‘Song of God) so a new song is a New Holy Book and a new heaven is a new religion.

    But warnings of Jesus are that only spiritual eyes will see Him and that otherwise He will appear as if a thief without the owner knowing. Otherwise if He is to descend from the physical sky there is no need to ‘watch’ as it will be obvious.

    These things, I believe occurred with the appearance of Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah but as religious leaders have opposed Them, the followers have been slow to recognise that These are the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth Christ spoke of.

    The Bible is replete with magnificent symbolical language regarding the appearance of all Three Prophets but Christians fail to recognise the truth because they are too attached to what their leaders teach them and so fail to comprehend the many spiritual truths and mysteries hidden within their Book.

    This generation shall not pass?..... you left this very crucial point out which makes me question the credibility of your post.

    Which generation shall not pass? -

    verses 37/38


    37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Clearly, Christ is saying that the ungodly and wicked generations as in Noah, will not pass until the Son of Man has returned and changed the world. Wicked and ungodly generations have continued for well beyond the time Christ uttered those Words.

    Which death?

    Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Death in the Holy Scriptures often refers to disbelieving in God or the death of unbelief.

    Christ here is foretelling that many who followed His first coming will be spiritually dead when He returns and disbelieve in Him. And as we have so clearly seen, the entire Christian population rejected Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

    So the point Jesus makes is that His followers then who accepted His first return will reject Him when He comes again and taste spiritual death then by rejecting His second coming.

    So, so profound.

    No promises whatsoever broken. Jesus kept His promise to return but His followers ears, itchy for smooth talkers were led astray and now, according to Jesus are spiritually dead as He has returned (Baha’u’llah) but they reject Him even though He Himself in Revelation states clearly that He will return with a ‘New Name’.
     
    #251 loverofhumanity, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
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  12. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    The second coming of Jesus started when He came back from the dead, and the days of the prophets shall increase now that it is omega.
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Good luck on the endeavor, I have been working in it for seven years. You will get the door prize if you even convince one Christian that Jesus is not coming BACK. :D
    Well, that's your reason, we all have our own reasons. My reason is very different because I believe that Jesus existed and was more than a mortal man, but since Jesus completed His mission on Earth.....

    John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


    ...... there would be NO REASON for Jesus to return to earth. Add to that the fact that NOWHERE in the New Testament did Jesus ever promise to return. :rolleyes:

    Now, IF there were other verses that said that Jesus had more work to do on Earth then maybe Christians would have a leg to stand on, but so far no Christian has provided any such verses.

    If you want to convince Christians of something it is best to try to do that with their own Bible and you have plenty of ammunition since they deny and distort what is written in their own Bible. :D

    Please notice how many Christians ignore my questions.
    Here are some questions I posted earlier on another thread. #326 Trailblazer, Today at 4:42 PM
    I highly doubt I will get any answers.

    Edited to add: Oops, I spoke too soon..... Bible verses answered with other Bible verses, it's gonna be a long night.
    Christians are fun, but I have to eat sometime! ;)

    #330 URAVIP2ME, 3 minutes ago
     
    #253 Trailblazer, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Not in the Bible. This sort of interpretation only appears because the Bible fails so badly at times.
     
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  15. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    You aren't a credible witness for themes in the Christian scriptures in light of the contamination by the claims of your own Messiah who appropriated the narratives about Jesus to justify himself. That explains your 7 year obsession with this topic across threads and years of attempting to dissuade Christians away from common beliefs in our religion.

    We don't buy your arguments and have no allegiance to your Messiah. I will say that your Messiah seems like a really sincere and kind guru who collated many preexisting spiritual teachings and grafted them onto his religion.
     
    #255 cOLTER, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am not trying to be a 'credible witness' for themes in the Christian scriptures, I am just interpreting the Bible verses, and I can interpret them as well as any Christian, actually better. Since Baha'u'llah unsealed the Book and explained what it means as per Daniel 12, Baha'is are able to know what the Bible means better than any Christian.

    Baha'u'llah did not appropriate any narratives about Jesus to justify himself. Baha'u'llah did not need to justify Himself since He was sent by God. You only make yourself look ignorant when you speak about something you know nothing about.
    Who said I have an obsession? I have posted mostly to atheists during these years, not to Christians. I have not been trying to 'dissuade' any Christians away from their beliefs. I just post accurate information from the Bible, what Christians do with that is their own business because we all have free will.
    There is one reason and only one reason that Christians reject Baha'u'llah, it is because they are waiting for the same man Jesus to return and they believe He will return. It has nothing to do with who Baha'u'llah was as a person or what He actually did on His mission or how many prophecies were fulfilled by His Coming... NONE of that matters to Christians because Baha'u'llah is not the same man Jesus. Christians would not want to know the Truth even if Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ because all they want is Jesus. Seven years has been more than long enough for me to figure that out. Christian belief is all emotional, not based on facts or evidence. It is all about an emotional attachment to Jesus.

    The problem Christians have to contend with is that Jesus never promised to return to Earth, not even once in the entire New Testament. Jesus said He would send the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth, which was Baha'u'llah, who did everything that Jesus promised. Moreover, the Bible says that Christ would return with a new name and that is why Jesus warned us not to follow anyone who claimed to be Christ.

    Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    There is enough evidence in the Bible to prove that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ to sink a ship so I do not even need to go into the evidence that Baha'u'llah told us to look at as I posted on the thread below. There is no way Christians can win this one because evidence is evidence.

    Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah
     
    #256 Trailblazer, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  17. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    He will speak
    He will tell
    He will hear
    He will glorify
    He will receive
    He will make known unto you

    A personal pronoun as in He that has ears to hear and a tongue to speak is clearly referring to a Person.
     
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  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    John 16:14
    New International Version

    14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

    Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah wrote:


    “We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86
     
  19. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the generation he was talking to. If it had been a future generation he likely would have said, "That generation". make sense?
     
  20. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    See--believing Jesus was more than a mortal man changes a person perspective on how they view the gospels. That's why you can take the gospels seriously. For me they are just fanciful accounts like any Harry Potter novel except they are set in Israel instead of London. Let me remind the readers of some pertinent facts: the gospels are NOT legitimate narratives of the life of Jesus. They are mostly fiction made up by the writers, who had absolutely no references upon which to base their narratives. They had no eyewitnesses;they had no written records that we know of to draw details from. All they had was their imaginations. Mark got the ball rolling with his bare-bones framework, then each subsequent writer began expanding the story and making it more and more fantastic until we get to a fully formed Jesus/god. It's a personal choice based on faith as to whether to believe the details in the gospels are real. One last reminder: we have no secular evidence for Jesus' existence. It's a matter of believing in him based completely on faith, not on evidence.
     
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