Islam in the Tanakh and the Bible

[Gharib]

I am not calling you a liar. I believe you believe every word you say. That still does not make it truth. You are not looking at things logically and factually. There was no religion called Islam until Muhammad founded it in the 7th century AD/CE. There were many religions already founded and being practiced before that time. Therefore, Islam CANNOT be the oldest religion on Earth. Period, end of story.

but "Islam" means "submission to god" all monotheisitc religions claim that we must surrender to god, who carea about some word that didn't exist before Muhammed (saws) the meaning and message was there. so that makes it proof. does it not?

 

[Green Gaia]

but "islam" means "submission to god" all monotheisitc religions claim that we must surrender to god, who carea about some word that didn't exist before muhammed (saws) the meaning and message was there. So that makes it proof. Does it not?

no...

 

[Gharib]

No, they don't.

thats not a fact, it isn't proof, nor is it evidence. i haven't even showed you, so can it not be? it seems the tables have turned, that was quick

 

[Gharib]

no...

because you say so, right?

 

[YmirGF]

what about non muslim scholars, what do you say to that?

As long as they are accredited historians, that have the backing of other accredited historians. Sure, fill yer boots. But... no... I will not accept accounts written by so-called "scholars" of the Muslim faith that not given any serious recognition outside the Muslim community.

In my opinion, so-called "scholarly" articles written by Muslims are merely white washed accounts that rely on other white washed accounts, and so on and so on, back to the earlier recorded history written by FANATICAL FOLLOWERS of Muhammad. The simple reality, Eselam, is that you cannot get around the fact that the earliest accounts were written by absolutely fanatical followers. What else DO you expect them to say. Fanatical followers of Muhammad are simply not going to talk about anything that is not flattering. So... we end up with this incredibly distorted view of a perfect man.

 

[Green Gaia]

thats not a fact, it isn't proof, nor is it evidence. i haven't even showed you, so can it not be? it seems the tables have turned, that was quick

No, just because someone converts is proof of nothing except they found something they connect to. That's it. It does not verify it's truthfulness or accuracy. People are duped by things all the time.

 

[Gharib]

As long as they are accredited historians, that have the backing of other accredited historians. Sure, fill yer boots. But... no... I will not accept accounts written by so-called "scholars" of the Muslim faith that not given any serious recognition outside the Muslim community.

In my opinion, so-called "scholarly" articles written by Muslims are merely white washed accounts that rely on other white washed accounts, and so on and so on, back to the earlier recorded history written by FANATICAL FOLLOWERS of Muhammad.

actually they are scholars, or amybe doctors in their fields. they are non muslims and are from the 21'st century.

 

[Gharib]

No, just because someone converts is proof of nothing except they found something they connect to. That's it. It does not verify it's truthfulness or accuracy. People are duped by things all the time.

well he is not the only person who says that the quran is from a real god, and them others do not convert, the stay non muslim.

 

[Green Gaia]

because you say so, right?

No, because your claim still is not verified by factual, historical evidence.

Look, I don't care if your religion wants to go back and claim Adam, (which is just a creation story of a culture and is not factual in any way), was a Muslim. The truth is, Islam did not exist before the 7th century of the common era. AFTER many other religions were already formed and had in some cases been practiced for many, many years. Your attempt at historical revisionism is just silly.

 

[Gharib]

No, because your claim still is not verified by factual, historical evidence.

Look, I don't care if your religion wants to go back and claim Adam, (which is just a creation story of a culture and is not factual in any way), was a Muslim. The truth is, Islam did not exist before the 7th century of the common era. AFTER many other religions were already formed and had in some cases been practiced for many, many years. Your attempt at historical revisionism is just silly.

before Muhammed came, judaism could just as well be called "islam" don't you get it. the monotheism belief of the arabs was given the name islam, so monotheism or islam are basically one thing, in a different way (having a different meaning)

 

[Green Gaia]

well he is not the only person who says that the quran is from a real god, and them others do not convert, the stay non muslim.

So where are they? Show us.

Christianity claims their holy book is from God, so does Judaism. What makes you think your claim is anymore accurate or should be taken anymore seriously? Just for the record, I don't believe any of those claims.

 

[Green Gaia]

before Muhammed came, judaism could just as well be called "islam" don't you get it. the monotheism belief of the arabs was given the name islam, so monotheism or islam are basically one thing, in a different way (having a different meaning)

Just because both are monotheistic means absolutely nothing.

 

[YmirGF]

actually they are scholars, or amybe doctors in their fields. they are non muslims and are from the 21'st century.

It is largely irrelevant, Eselam, as the historical record has been recorded by fanatical followers almost from the first word put on paper about Muhammad. There is very, very little information written about Muhammad by non-Muslims to go on.

 

[Green Gaia]

eselam, why don't you just admit that the belief that Islam is the oldest religion is one made not on actual historical evidence, but one made on faith after taking another religion's creation story and rewriting it.

 

[Gharib]

it seems you won't have to wait 2 days afterall. ok now it is a small book, in order to understand those people making the claims that the quran is from god you guys will need to read the book, but i can just as well post the speeches if you all want, or i can open a new thread. you decide?

 

[YmirGF]

before Muhammed came, judaism could just as well be called "islam" don't you get it. the monotheism belief of the arabs was given the name islam, so monotheism or islam are basically one thing, in a different way (having a different meaning)

NO! Islam insinuated itself into pre-existing traditions. Don't YOU get it? If the early followers thought Muhammad was talking about the same thing it is likely everyone would have fallen all over themselves to immediately convert to his creation -- Islam. They didn't. Many thought he was a complete nut and ridiculed him mercilessly because of it.

 

[Gharib]

It is largely irrelevant, Eselam, as the historical record has been recorded by fanatical followers almost from the first word put on paper about Muhammad. There is very, very little information written about Muhammad by non-Muslims to go on.

bo actually, they are proving the quran right, not the life of Muhammed, about muhammed they say that he must have been inspired by god, since man can not author the quran.

and how is it irrelevant?

 

[Gharib]

eselam, why don't you just admit that the belief that Islam is the oldest religion is one made not on actual historical evidence, but one made on faith after taking another religion's creation story and rewriting it.

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well i can't claim that bcause then i would be a liar, since it is not how it happened.

 

[Green Gaia]

it seems you won't have to wait 2 days afterall. ok now it is a small book, in order to understand those people making the claims that the quran is from god you guys will need to read the book, but i can just as well post the speeches if you all want, or i can open a new thread. you decide?

Why don't we start the title and author of the book?

 

[YmirGF]

it seems you won't have to wait 2 days afterall. ok now it is a small book, in order to understand those people making the claims that the quran is from god you guys will need to read the book, but i can just as well post the speeches if you all want, or i can open a new thread. you decide?

It makes no difference to me where you wish to flush this pollution. Have at her, I say. Good luck.