Is voting an act of aggression?

[an anarchist]

Armed force? How do you work that out?

So, I’ll use taxes as an example. Let’s say voters in my town voted for a business tax and I ran a business. If I refused to pay it, eventually armed agents of the state would come to apprehend me. Voting gives agents of the state an assumed justification for using force on individuals. I don’t think voting makes force justified.
Sure, the voters themselves wouldn’t be the ones coming after me, but they had an integral part in the process. The armed force is implementing the voters will, supposedly.

 

[an anarchist]

Not voting is still a decision. The force of the state is going to be implemented whether you vote or not. Not voting is just a weak attempt to not take responsibility. But it doesn’t work.

“If you choose not to decide,
you still have made a choice.”

I’d say not voting is more akin to pacifism. If one sees voting as unjust force, and they refuse to use that force on others, even if it would benefit them, is that them being weak? I don’t think so.
I would say by voting, you are partly responsible for the state, as you are propagating it’s existence and giving it supposed justification for the use of force.
I have decided, I don’t choose “not to decide”. I decide not to take part in an immoral system, though society says I should do otherwise.

 

[an anarchist]

Kind of a strange question, really.

It seems strange, right? I think that’s telling in itself.
For the last two presidential cycles (the ones in which I’ve been old enough to understand politics) I saw a huge government funded campaign telling everyone to go out and vote. Ads were everywhere, celebrities would be in the ads talking about the importance of voting and such.
There is so much money and energy put into convincing the public to participate in voting here in the states. Why is that?
If no one voted, the democratic government would lose its justification for using force. It is important that voting happens, for the illusion of necessity of state.
It would be a strange thing if nobody voted. Strange because there is so much propaganda put out by the government convincing the masses that it is their duty and right to vote.

 

[exchemist]

So, I’ll use taxes as an example. Let’s say voters in my town voted for a business tax and I ran a business. If I refused to pay it, eventually armed agents of the state would come to apprehend me. Voting gives agents of the state an assumed justification for using force on individuals. I don’t think voting makes force justified.
Sure, the voters themselves wouldn’t be the ones coming after me, but they had an integral part in the process. The armed force is implementing the voters will, supposedly.

That's not how voting generally works. You vote for a party or individual who you trust to pass sensible laws that you are willing to abide by. Only in Switzerland do you have referenda on individual pieces of legislation.

Really what you are objecting to is the idea that laws can be passed and then enforced.

 

[an anarchist]

Yes, laws are often backed up by the threat of force, but a political party's platform might include a promise to weild that force less often or less severely.

Well, I suppose if you vote in a manner which limits the government, there is the point that you are using the means available to you to limit the state’s aggression. Do you think it is really effective, though? States usually tend to get more aggressive as time goes on.
voting still helps propagates the states existence. As an anarchist, I view the state’s existence as a constant violation of individual rights.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

“If you don’t vote, you can’t complain!”

The last two times I tried to vote in the States, I found myself purged from the voter rolls. The first time, I thought it was an oversight. By the second time, I realized that this was my fate for being registered Democrat in the reddest part of a red state surrounded by eight other red states. By then, I had already become disenchanted with America and was in the process of arranging my retirement and expatriation, so I never tried to vote there again.

To answer your question, yes, voting was an act of aggression, but not on my part. It was among the last straws for me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, I suppose if you vote in a manner which limits the government, there is the point that you are using the means available to you to limit the state’s aggression. Do you think it is really effective, though?

It can be. Depends on the will of the voters.

States usually tend to get more aggressive as time goes on.

And some of that aggression takes the forms of different levels of government putting restrictions on each other.

voting still helps propagates the states existence.

No more than not voting.

As an anarchist, I view the state’s existence as a constant violation of individual rights.

Well, there's that old line that democracy is the worst system of government except for all the others.

You aren't in a position to do anything about whether the state exists or not. The only options you have are a state that's slightly more or slightly less responsive to its citizens.

 

[an anarchist]

You aren't in a position to do anything about whether the state exists or not. The only options you have are a state that's slightly more or slightly less responsive to its citizens.

That’s a shame! Oh well I guess.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What if one really doesn't know or feel it isn't their job to meddle in such affairs?
Do you feel such an individual should vote anyway?

Everyone should contribute to their community and voting for those who will direct our affairs is part of that.

It only works when all take part in the same spirit of service.

Regards Tony

 

[Nimos]

I am of the opinion that voting is an act of aggression, hence why I don’t vote.
You are using armed force (via the state) to implement your will upon others within a geographical region.
Is this not true?
“If you don’t vote, you can’t complain!” Is the old saying, but I say “If you vote, you can’t complain!”
Fishing for debate don’t mind me

I don't think voting is the most optimal system there is, but at least for now with what we have it seems to be the best way for everyone to at least have the possibility of getting heard and affect the society in the direction that they think is best.

However there is some issues with the system, as it seems that certain groups of people are more likely to vote than others are, for instance such as income seems to play a role, meaning that in general people that earn more are more likely to vote than those with lesser income. This could obviously mean that certain groups of citizens and their concerns are maybe less likely to be considered important compared to others.

Also, when voting there is a chance that those people that vote might be incorrectly informed about what exactly they are voting for and the effect of it. Either because the information given to them aren't 100% accurate, which we often hear during political debates that you have several different views being promoted, which will often try to discredit the other sides views. And if you are a "normal" person with limited knowledge about the topic, you might actually vote on it without really understanding it.

So as I see it, voting or in general our political system is not optimal, when it comes to problem solving, but at least you have the option to vote and express your opinion based on what you believe is important to you.

You are not really forcing anything on anyone else, more than you trying are being "aggressive" when you might try to figure out where to go for dinner with some friend and you giving your opinion on which place you prefer to eat

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

If you live within such affairs, it's hardly meddling to try to have a say.

I suppose "meddling" was a poor choice of words.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I am of the opinion that voting is an act of aggression, hence why I don’t vote.
You are using armed force (via the state) to implement your will upon others within a geographical region.
Is this not true?
“If you don’t vote, you can’t complain!” Is the old saying, but I say “If you vote, you can’t complain!”
Fishing for debate don’t mind me

Well, I used to be an anarchist, but I figured out it is to simple in a complex world. Agrian stone age anarchism might work, but it doesn't work in a modern complex world like this.

 

[an anarchist]

Well, I used to be an anarchist, but I figured out it is to simple in a complex world. Agrian stone age anarchism might work, but it doesn't work in a modern complex world like this.

My anarchist thinking is indeed utopic thinking

 

[danieldemol]

I decide not to take part in an immoral system

Oh yeah, the rich giving there fair share back to the poor is so immoral *not*

Please give me a break. It is immorality not to vote for redistribution of wealth. But hey, if you dont like it feel free not to vote against the redistribution of wealth.

It won't stop me from voting for the redistribution of wealth, because I don't buy into your fake so called morality.

In my opinion.

 

[an anarchist]

Oh yeah, the rich giving there fair share back to the poor is so immoral *not*

Please give me a break. It is immorality not to vote for redistribution of wealth. But hey, if you dont like it feel free not to vote against the redistribution of wealth.

It won't stop me from voting for the redistribution of wealth, because I don't buy into your fake so called morality.

In my opinion.

I suppose that we would disagree on property rights. I’m libertarian in my thinking, so I believe that original appropriation/ homesteading is a valid means to acquire resources for individual use.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I suppose that we would disagree on property rights. I’m libertarian in my thinking, so I believe that original appropriation/ homesteading is a valid means to acquire resources for individual use.

That is at best a partial solution because it doesn't address the common land and social interaction.

 

[Estro Felino]

IIRC, most compulsory voting countries have a "None of the above" option

Actually...you can just put a empty ballot into the box...

 

[Estro Felino]

Since I think the State is an entity by which God's will is implemented on Earth, I think that only by voting, citizens become a part of the State. By participating in the public welfare.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Actually...you can just put a empty ballot into the box...

In Denmark the custom is also to vote for the one, who printed the ballot, since that is at the bottom.

 

[Estro Felino]

In Denmark the custom is also to vote for the one, who printed the ballot, since that is a the bottom.

LoL...really? Cool.