Is There Any Cause For Impinging on Someones Reproductive Rights?

[The Neo Nerd]

I have a friend who works for a child protection agency.

She was telling me about a couple who have 7 children. All of them wards of the state.

- At this moment they have a 6 week old child of which they have daily access to, of which they rarely do.

- When they kid was first born the mother was given uninterrupted access so as the kid could be breastfed, of which she did around 1 in 7 of the feedings the kid had.

- They have been abusive to my friend, they have continued to take drugs etc.

- They have never had jobs, they have been on unemployment benefits since they were old enough to get it (This is a generational thing, there parents were on it, their parents parents were on it)

Now there is no reason why this couple will not keep squeezing kids. Who will then be taken as wards of the state. Costing the government money and screwing up another kid.

Should something be done?

Should they be threatened with imprisonment if they get pregnant again?

Should the women be sterilised? (this definitely ain't something that i'd consider)

Do we have the right to mandate their reproductive rights?

What do you guys think, i have no idea.

-Q

 

[Father Heathen]

I think breeding licenses would be a swell idea.

 

[Revoltingest]

Want gov't to support you instead of doing it yerself?
The taxpayers want something in return....sterility.
Don't like the bargain? Get a job.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Want gov't to support you instead of doing it yerself?
The taxpayers want something in return....sterility.
Don't like the bargain? Get a job.

Yeah but they aren't going to. After 3-4 generations of dole bludging, it ain't going to happen.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah but they aren't going to. After 3-4 generations of dole bludging, it ain't going to happen.

Well....it was just a suggestion.
I don't think it will work.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

One of the problems with this kind of behavior, is that the people who actually need this kind of assistance generally get lumped in together with these kinds of people who are just looking for a free ride, which makes the whole system look suspect. There are people who are actually in bad situations who need government assistance. But these people abuse the system. I read a news article not long ago where a family was on welfare, living in a million dollar lake front home. And when they were investigated, it was learned that they were doing exactly as they were supposed to be doing. The system needs revised,and some sort of check needs to be in place to keep people who are just using the system off of it, so the people who do need it can continue to receive it.

 

[Revoltingest]

One of the problems with this kind of behavior, is that the people who actually need this kind of assistance generally get lumped in together with these kinds of people who are just looking for a free ride, which makes the whole system look suspect. There are people who are actually in bad situations who need government assistance. But these people abuse the system. I read a news article not long ago where a family was on welfare, living in a million dollar lake front home. And when they were investigated, it was learned that they were doing exactly as they were supposed to be doing. The system needs revised,and some sort of check needs to be in place to keep people who are just using the system off of it, so the people who do need it can continue to receive it.

True dat.

 

[Kathryn]

One of the problems with this kind of behavior, is that the people who actually need this kind of assistance generally get lumped in together with these kinds of people who are just looking for a free ride, which makes the whole system look suspect. There are people who are actually in bad situations who need government assistance. But these people abuse the system. I read a news article not long ago where a family was on welfare, living in a million dollar lake front home. And when they were investigated, it was learned that they were doing exactly as they were supposed to be doing. The system needs revised,and some sort of check needs to be in place to keep people who are just using the system off of it, so the people who do need it can continue to receive it.

Amen.

As for the couple in question - did the mother use drugs when she was pregnant? If so, I'd like to see a system in place that would prosecute her for inflicting harm on the unborn - as well as whisking that baby away from her the moment it was born. And incarcerating her in the interim if she couldn't pass regular drug testing, to protect that innocent life.

Of course, that's a little difficult to implement when the current system allows for late term abortions.

Our system is whacked.

 

[Valjean]

We imprison people for anti-social behavior. Odd that we're so hesitant to mandate birth control or sterilization when it would have no effect on the individual's daily life at all.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Because Eugenics is seen so poorly we stray on the side of probably being to laissez faire (sp?) about it; personally I think the only possible reason that this could be mandated is in the event that they demonstrate they are incapable of (or unwilling to) look after their offspring - as otherwise the children are the ones who suffer. This to me is the only ethical objective reasoning for such mandates - apart from perhaps inheritable defects, which is something that many others question as being an ethical basis for eugenics.

 

[Drolefille]

We imprison people for anti-social behavior. Odd that we're so hesitant to mandate birth control or sterilization when it would have no effect on the individual's daily life at all.

Because it has been done before to disastrous results in the US. And we don't cut off a limb as punishment for a crime. We generally -now - respect one's bodily autonomy.

 

[Songbird]

I have a strong anti-sterilization sentiment for a few reasons, one of which Drolefille mentioned. It's usually permanent, and it's an invasive surgery, neither of which are punishments we inflict on anyone for any reason. And punishing a woman for dangerous behavior while pregnant seems frighteningly slippery slope-accommodating. And frankly, completely unfair to the average responsibility of the male/female dynamic regarding parenting rights. If a woman can be legally scrutinized and penalized for prenatal activity, I foresee a knee-jerk reaction allowing women more favor in post-natal court decisions to make up for the unfairness. In other words, more discrimination against men after the baby is born to equalize the discrimination against women before it's born.

 

[Valjean]

Mandated family planning has been done to beneficial effect in China, but I would prefer not to resort to compulsory limits.

Advertizing and a good PR program, coupled with tax incentives might be all it takes.

 

[Drolefille]

Mandated family planning has been done to beneficial effect in China, but I would prefer not to resort to compulsory limits.

Advertizing and a good PR program, coupled with tax incentives might be all it takes.

I support making birth control as well as sterilization FREE, I do not support paying people to do it.

 

[Valjean]

There are currently tax incentives to have children, regardless of weather you can afford them. I'm not advocating paying people to remain childless. I'm advocating changing these incentives and publicizing the financial and lifestyle benefits of family planning.
Silly girl!

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Actually Seyorni, depending on where you are there are indeed some programs that pay people to get the snip so to speak. Such as an American run scheme in Bristol UK targeting drug addicts http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/bristol/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9095000/9095921.stm

 

[Drolefille]

There are currently tax incentives to have children, regardless of weather you can afford them. I'm not advocating paying people to remain childless. I'm advocating changing these incentives and publicizing the financial and lifestyle benefits of family planning.
Silly girl!

No no, it's "FUNNY girl"
Tax incentives for having children don't come close to making up the cost of raising children. Without the incentives the cost is merely higher. Poor people, whose children's care is paid for through public funding in some shape or fashion - health insurance, child care, food, and so on - typically do not pay taxes and therefore tax incentives do not benefit them. Anything that would result in a refund on taxes, would result in paying them.

I'm for education, but good luck getting the Catholics and the more stodgy protestants behind you.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I support making birth control as well as sterilization FREE, I do not support paying people to do it.

I used to be against that, but in light of what could transpire in lieu of such controls and the fact that a good number of people will still persist in their habits irregardless, its IMO more compassionate to dole out tax money. I think by doing so, on the long run, saves obvious pain and suffering as well as actually saving more by way of the pocketbook.

 

[Drolefille]

I used to be against that, but in light of what could transpire in lieu of such controls and the fact that a good number of people will still persist in their habits irregardless, its IMO more compassionate to dole out tax money. I think by doing so, on the long run, saves obvious pain and suffering as well as actually saving more by way of the pocketbook.

It targets the poor, hence my disapproval. (This is who is usually targetted by eugenics and sterilization programs, not bad parents but poor parents.)

Also birth rates in the countries that can afford to do this as public policy are much lower than in countries where it's probably no affordable. (And often only immigration has birth rates in "first world" countries increasing.)

 

[Valjean]

Actually Seyorni, depending on where you are there are indeed some programs that pay people to get the snip so to speak. Such as an American run scheme in Bristol UK targeting drug addicts BBC - Sterilisation scheme targets Bristol drug addicts

I'm not entirely comfortable with offering drowning person a life ring. Cumpulsory family planning has a bad history and tends to be political dynamite.
I'd prefer publicizing the advantages of family planning, removing the social stigma of a child-free lifestyle, and letting people make their own choices.