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Is the Messiah to Bring Peace or Tribulation?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by wizanda, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Now fair enough the end results are we come to an Age of Peace; yet as far as we can see the Messiah comes to bring the destruction of evil, before we come to the Age of Godliness; can anyone show reason otherwise?

    Like if we examine the first occurrence based on the Tanakh, we have the Messiah come before the Abomination of Desolation (Daniel 9), and Destruction of the 2nd temple (Zechariah 11); whilst laying the Curse (Deuteronomy 28-32), a Snare & Bed of Adultery (Isaiah 28) to catch out the ungodly...

    The next time is just before the destruction of evil from this realm, and those whom are righteous don't actually see the Messiah until the Messianic Age.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  2. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    I begin to think the Messiah comes to help us keep from stepping in something.
     
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  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    The Messiahs bring spiritual laws and principles for the progressive spiritual evolution of humanity, which eventually leads to peace. There are different kinds of peace in the spiritual evolution of humanity. There is inner personal peace, peace in the family, peace community, peace in the nation and peace in the world. The Messiah does not bring the peace humanity brings the peace by following the spiritual laws and principles.

    Ancient beliefs and scripture reflect the human view at time they were revealed, and the natural disasters, suffering and misfortunes not understood as natural were consider Tribulation and at times punishment from God. The reality of spiritual Tribulation, resulting in physical suffering is the self inflicted suffering by the failure of humans to follow the spiritual laws and principles of the progressive Revelation from God.
     
  4. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    IEDs?
     
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  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Unfortunately that makes no sense, if the first precedent is we're down near Hell according to the Bible, and other religious texts globally...

    Mankind isn't going to magically fix its self; when many people are literally demons, and only care about themselves. :(

    Individuals can find some form of peace through enlightenment down here; yet to believe overall mankind as a whole will some day all turn to God down near Hell, isn't logical.

    Plus Biblically the Curse that Moses stipulated, warns of those who go around teaching that we can create peace before the Curse, and evil is removed by God.

    Deuteronomy 29:19-20 and it happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, “I shall have peace, though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart, to destroy the moist with the dry.” (20) Yahweh will not pardon him, but then Yahweh’s anger and his jealousy will smoke against that man, and all the curse that is written in this book will fall on him, and Yahweh will blot out his name from under the sky.


    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  6. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Sounds logical. There would be no reason to call it the messianic age, otherwise.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  7. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Which texts? Many religions have a similar idea, but with wildly differing details:

    Buddhism: Maitreya - Wikipedia
    Hindu: Kalki Purana - Wikipedia

    I think of WWII through the Cuban Missile Crisis to be the climactic events heralding the dawn.
     
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  8. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    That statement was in context of us being down near Hell; Dharmic religious texts teach here is the Maya (a realm of delusion), with Naraka below us... etc.
    Kalki means a white horse, he comes to fight Adharmic behavior with Fire before Satya Yuga, and comes bringing the wisdom from the Place of Peace (Shambhala).

    The rider on a white horse in Revelation, comes to fight sinful behavior with Fire before the Messianic Age, and to bring the City of Peace to Earth (Jerusalem).

    Kalki also exists in Buddhism.

    Maitreya is when Dharma is forgotten, and he doesn't bring in the Age of Godliness.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #8 wizanda, Nov 22, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  9. spirit_of_dawn

    spirit_of_dawn Active Member

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    It is also the Belief of Shia Islam that the Messiah will bring peace and destroy all forces of evil that refuse to submit to the will of God.
     
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  10. 9-18-1

    9-18-1 Active Member

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    Messiah is not without;
    messiah is within:
    each is their own
    Christ / anti-Christ.

    Everything else is idol worship: last 'idol' to be destroyed is ones own ego.
     
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  11. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Maybe...…...

    Israel had crucified the Lord and publicly called God's judgment down on themselves: "And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us and on our children." (Matthew 27:25). God's judgment on Israel in 70 AD matched their crime, the crucifixion of Christ.

    This crime was the worst in history, so their punishment was also the worst in history. To call anything else "the great tribulation" is to downplay the immensity of that generation's crime.

    Renan said, "From this time forth, hunger, rage, despair, and madness dwelt in Jerusalem. It was a cage of furious maniacs, as city resounding with howling and inhabited by cannibals, a very hell.

    Titus, for his part, was atrociously vindictive; every day five hundred unfortunates were crucified in the sight of the city with hateful refinements of cruelty or sufficient ground whereon to erect them."

    We need to realize the scope of the great tribulation upon the people of Israel. It was not just those in Jerusalem that suffered and died, but all over Palestine, the whole country felt the judgment of God. Josephus said, "There was not a Syrian city which did not slay their Jewish inhabitants, and were more bitter enemies to us than were the Romans themselves."

    The Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:21)
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    This part of the cycle of Progressive Revelation and not just one "great tribulation," and not the worst in history. The accusation that Israel had crucified the Lord is really not the case. It was the Romans that crucified Jesus Christ for rebellion against Rome. Your quoting the Bible far too literally to justify your case. The cycles of Revelation and tribulations are universal with humanity over the eons as long as humans have been human.
     
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  13. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Is the Messiah to bring peace or tribulation? BOTH! First the greatest tribulation that this earth has ever seen, if not for the intervention of the Lord, no flesh would survive, this is followed by a thousand years of peace in which the Lord will judge the whole world with Justice by means of a MAN that he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death; see Acts 17: 31.

    One of the worst tribulations that the earth has suffered in recent times occurred some 75,000 years ago with the Toba super eruption, which was a super volcanic eruption that occurred sometime between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at Lake Toba (Sumatra Indonesia). It is recognised as one of earth’s largest eruptions.

    Thousands of cubic kilometres of material would have been blasted out into the stratosphere blocking out the light all over the world, turning the sun and moon into huge blood red orbs and causing the earth’s temperature to drop some 21% and it would possibly have been a thousand years, before rainbows could form in our atmosphere again.

    The related catastrophe theory holds that this event plunged the planet into a 6 to 10 year volcanic winter and possibly an additional 1,000 year cooling episode. This change in temperature resulted in the world’s proto-human population being reduced to 10,000 or even a mere 1,000 breeding pairs, creating a bottleneck in human evolution.

    Could an eruption such as this, be more of a blessing, than a curse, could a protective shield around the earth to protect us from increased heavenly radiation for a period of time, be established, to give us time to prepare for the ultimate end of all physical life forms that remain on this planet, and if so how?

    Zephaniah 1: 2-3; The Lord said; "I am going to destroy everything on earth, all human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy all mankind, and no survivors will be left.

    Verse 18: "On the day when the Lord shows his fury, not even all their silver and gold will save them. The whole earth will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end---a sudden end---to everyone who lives on earth.

    The huge column of molten rock that feeds Yellowstone's "super volcano" dives deeper and fills a magma chamber 20 percent bigger than previous estimates, scientists say. The finding, based on the most detailed model yet of the region's geologic plumbing, suggests that Yellowstone's magma chamber contains even more fuel for a future "super eruption" than anyone had suspected.

    The model shows that a 45-mile-wide (72-kilometer-wide) plume of hot, molten rock rises to feed the super volcano from at least 410 miles (660 kilometers) beneath Earth's surface. The deepest part of the plume actually sits beneath the town of Wisdom, Montana, about 150 miles (241 kilometers) from Yellowstone National Park, a steady flow of hot rock in Earth's upper mantle causes the plume to drift to the southeast, where it fills a magma chamber that sits just 3.7 to 10 miles (5.9 to 16 kilometers) beneath Yellowstone.

    Other new data show that Yellowstone's magma chamber extends 13 miles (21 kilometers) farther to the northeast than previously thought. Scientists had already known that Yellowstone is a volcanic hot spot, and that within the past two million years, the region has seen three mammoth eruptions at intervals of about 600,000 years, and it is 640,000 years since it’s last eruption. Such events it is said, can produce at least 77 cubic miles (360 cubic kilometers) of basalt: enough to bury Washington, D.C., under nearly 7,200 feet (2,200 meters) of solidified lava.

    The ground beneath Yellowstone is said to be 74cm higher today than it was in 1923, which indicates a massive swelling beneath the Park. Scientists believe that the reservoir of Magma is filling at an alarming rate and as that volcano erupts with an average cycle of 600,000 years and the last eruption was more than 640,000 years ago we are overdue for annihilation.

    Forget about the death total within the immediate period of the explosive eruption, but just imagine what happens to our communication and ground and air transport systems, fuel supplies, power grids, atomic power stations spewing out radiation into the atmosphere, etc, etc.

    What did Jesus say concerning that day? "Pray that your flight be not in winter, (The nuclear/volcanic winter) and woe unto the women who are pregnant in those days, perhaps the evolutionary son of man, came from mutants that are to be born in those days.

    Zechariah 14: 6; And it shall come to pass in that day, (The Lord’s Day of one thousand years) that the light shall not be clear or dark: and it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that evening time it shall be light. On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter. The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

    Could the Great prophesied war in the Middle East be the trigger to set off the volcano beneath Yellowstone, bringing in a thousand- year period of twilight in which rainbows can't form in our atmosphere? And when, according to Isaiah 65: 20, "If one were to die during that period at the age of 100, they would be but a child.

    In that day says Isaiah, the lion will lay down with the sheep and all people will live out their full life span. A hundred-year old person will be considered to be but a child etc.

    Revelation 20: 7-9: It is after the thousand years have ended (How long after? Nobody knows.) that the last trumpet will sound and the fire from heaven descends and incinerates the surface of this planet as prophesied by Zephaniah.

    In dream I saw the heavens ablaze with balls of fire
    Huge hailstones that were burning and streaking down the skies
    The earth was clothed in purples, dark orange, and deep blue
    Like a swaddling cloth surrounding us that hid the stars from veiw
    Dark clouds rose from the mountain peaks, earth's veins were opened wide
    Through which her inner blood spewed forth in streams of living fire
    Whole continents, they heaved and tossed, waves rippled through the ground
    In all the earth, no hiding place of safety could be found
    The oceans boiled, they foamed and rose destroying cities on their shores
    All the river dams were busted, valley towns were seen no more
    The power stations of the earth--all were melted down
    A few survivors of the human race were all that could be found
    And then I saw the winter, a winter so severe
    It lasted not a few short months, but many, many, years
    And the women who were pregnant, Ahh, the children that they bore
    Grotesque and hideous malformations, I pray to see that sight no more
    Then when the winter lifted and the crops began to grow
    A strange and eerie world emerged from the destruction and the snow
    A world with neither day nor night where rainbows couldn't form
    In the atmosphere above the earth, and yet the air was strangely warm
    A thousand years of twilight and through that swaddling band on high
    Three blood red giants were blazing through a hazed and orange sky
    The sun and moon had turned to blood, but far brighter than the moon
    Was Jupiter, that heavenly light, which in time would spell man's doom...…...The Anointed
     
    #13 The Anointed, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  14. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Continued from post #13.

    Zechariah 14: The Lord will gather all the nations together to make war on Jerusalem. The city will be taken, the houses Looted, and the women raped. Half the people will go into exile, but the rest of them will not be taken away from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he has fought in times Past. (This has not yet happened)

    Numbers 24: 17, "A king, like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his property. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors." Zechariah 12: 10; "They will look upon me and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc."

    To see the man Jesus, who they pierced, is to see the Lord of whom Enoch was the chosen cornerstone.

    Isaiah 63: 1-6, "Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?" It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. "Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?"

    The Lord answers, "I have trampled the nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I DECIDED THAT THE TIME TO SAVE MY PEOPLE HAD COME; it was time to punish their enemies.

    I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole nations and shattered them, I poured out their life’s blood on the earth."

    See Zechariah 14. The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle (The kingdom of God is within you) which temporary tabernacle is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea.

    The African tectonic plate in its northern migration, grinds against the Arabian plate in a line that runs up through the Red Sea and along the Jordon valley beneath the Mount of Olives.

    Zechariah 14: 3-4; Then the Lord will go out and fight for his people as he has fought in times past. At that time, he will stand on the Mount of Olives, to the east of Jerusalem. Then the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west by a large valley. Half of the mountain (On the African plate) will move northward, and half of it (On the Arabian plate) will move southward.

    Could the violent activity around the earth at this time, be the trigger that will cause the super volcano beneath Yellow stone to erupt, enveloping the planet in a cloud of debris? And that day shall be neither day nor night, but a perpetual twilight.

    Zechariah 14: 13; Then the Lord will throw those nations that surround Jerusalem, into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh, cooked to the bone, will slide from their bodies while still standing. Then all the surviving Nations will send their representatives each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship and pay tribute to the Lord who will rule the whole world with justice for a thousand years, and woe betide those who refuse to do so.

    Then all the godless people of this world, and all those, who in their Synagogues, Mosques, and Cathedrals of stone, marble, or crystal, who prostate themselves on the floors or who sing and dance with their eyes and hands raised to the heavens in worship of a god they neither know or understand, will bow down and worship THE God of the Bible, the Most High in the creation, ‘The Son of Man’ who evolves from the body of mankind.

    It is in that thousand years of peace that all our resources will be used to prepare for the ultimate destruction of all physical life forms that remain on this planet. Knowing that which is to occur after the one thousand year Sabbath, when heavenly fire incinerate the surface of the earth, with the great wealth that will be paid in tribute by the nations of the world during that thousand year rule of our king and high priest, genetic banks of all physical life forms will be created, (The Ark) and sent to a place of safety in order that when the incinerated earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, Plants will be planted, animals will be created anew, and when the system for the sustainability of mankind has been put in place, the Lord, our brother, king, and high priest will say, "And now, let us make man in our image and likeness." And a new and more humble Race of men will people this earth.

    "Under the guidance of Jupiter (Planet) man prepares, by means of religious exercises, for the journey to the life beyond, and he attains rest under the influence of Saturn." (Basra Encyclopedia)- De Boer, Philosophy in Islam, p 88.

    The water ocean on Enceladus, a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, researchers said. Further, it's in direct contact with a rocky seafloor, theoretically making possible all kinds of complex chemical reactions — such as, perhaps, the kind that led to the rise of life on Earth.

    "The world being melted and re-entered into the bosom of Jupiter, this God continues for some time totally concentered in himself: . . . afterwards we see a new world spring from him, perfect in all its parts; animals are produced anew; an innocent race of man is formed under more favourable auspices, in order to people this earth." " Seneca, Epist, 9, and Qucest. Nat. L. 3, c, ult.
     
    #14 The Anointed, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    It brings both with each of God's Messengers. Peace and Tribulations.

    It brings a new heaven and a new earth and each time a message is given, this is what unfolds;

    Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

    It is either acceptance or rejection of the message. In this age humanity will find unity and have an age of peace yet to be witnessed.

    Regards Tony
     
  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    Sorry Wizanda, you do not fit the requirements. ;)

    Regards Tony
     
  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Sorry had deleted that post as it came across too harsh, and we need to resolve this, not have an ego battle... :purpleheart:

    The requirements are being a divine representative; thus regardless of personal criteria (waiting a thousand years, when mankind is on the verge of extinction), can we deal with the facts of the case?

    The message I've been sent with could help heal mankind, we could rectify Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Baha'i, Dharmic divide; we just need workers in the harvest, who believe it is possible.

    As you just said mankind is doomed otherwise; so don't be a contributing cause of it, instead help in the dreams of Baha'i's success.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #17 wizanda, Apr 6, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    When Yeshua came Judah got destroyed, when Muhammad came its caused war in the Middleeast, and the same when Buddha came, other religions got wiped out...
    This expectation is on all the world's governments accepting Baha'i's message, this will not happen automatically, as profit comes before prophets.

    We need unification of religious ideas for this to succeed, and literally the Baha'i currently do not have the exegetical skills to do so (Zand).

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #18 wizanda, Apr 6, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Daniel was writing about Antiochus IV Epiphanes during the Maccabean revolt.

    Are you talking about the adultery of Queen Berneice and Titus?

    Why "Flee" to the mountains if you are going to be raptured?
     
  20. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Those who the Gods would use, they first send mad.
     
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