Is Pornography really degrading women?

[Darkness]

I agree with that actually.

It is common sense, really. I am a senior in college, and honestly, male and female 18-year-olds are definitely not mature enough to work in pornography.

 

[Darkness]

Then we might as well drive the legal age for gambling, smoking, alcohol, voting and joining the service to 25 as well, Mustn't forget driving, either. Can't drive until your 25.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Drinking is done in private by those under-aged, so it is doubtful raising the age floor for alcohol consumption will do anything to deter consumption. By its very nature, the porn industry functions out in the open. If made illegal, we should be able to eliminate a vast majority of the industry. Who is going to hold an underground porn conference?

 

[Darkness]

There is a very big difference between a fight , with two consenting adults, and randomly harming someone. It is pretty clear to me.

So, we should be able to have gladiator fights to the death if the participants are consenting adults.

rakhel's answer was simply perfect so i will quote her:

(see post above)

People shouldn't have to be forced to use the seatbelt if they don't want it as long as they are putting ONLY their lives in danger. The fact is, however, there is no good reason to don't use a seatbelt.

And this is the crux of the issues and why I reject liberal theory. I believe it is in the full right of the society, through a democratic process, to compel people to wear seatbelts, even if it conflicts with their natural liberty. It always comes back to seatbelts, my political theory professor always says.

 

[Koldo]

So, we should be able to have gladiator fights to the death if the participants are consenting adults.

Aha, this could make up for an even more interesting topic than the whole pornography thing. My answer is yes. Nevertheless, the fact is that gladiator matches are quite devastating. Comparing them to pornography is a real joke. You are comparing a death match to sex.

And this is the crux of the issues and why I reject liberal theory. I believe it is in the full right of the society, through a democratic process, to compel people to wear seatbelts, even if it conflicts with their natural liberty. It always comes back to seatbelts, my political theory professor always says.

I don't see a good reason to do so. Would you care to explain why do you think so?

 

[Darkness]

Aha, this could make up for an even more interesting topic than the whole pornography thing. My answer is yes. Nevertheless, the fact is that gladiator matches are quite devastating. Comparing them to pornography is a real joke. You are comparing a death match to sex.

I am not saying that the two are analogous. I am merely presenting the limits of adult consent.

I don't see a good reason to do so. Would you care to explain why do you think so?

It is simple really. Living life (i.e. not dying) makes us more free, than our ability to be stupid ever could. Think about it this way. It is foolish to say that living in anarchy is the freest state we could ever experience. You are under constant threat of violence and death. We need a society/government to create and authority with power to restrict our anarchistic freedoms, so that we can experience true freedom; what the Greeks called eudaimonia, or human flourishing.

 

[Koldo]

I am not saying that the two are analogous. I am merely presenting the limits of adult consent.

And i said "yes" to your question so unless you want to expand on that your argument failed.

It is simple really. Living life (i.e. not dying) makes us more free, than our ability to be stupid ever could. Think about it this way. It is foolish to say that living in anarchy is the freest state we could ever experience. You are under constant threat of violence and death. We need a society/government to create and authority with power to restrict our anarchistic freedoms, so that we can experience true freedom; what the Greeks called eudaimonia, or human flourishing.

What? Obviously each individual right should be respected to the point it doesn't interfere with another individual's right. We do need a government to enforce this, however we do not need a government to restrict our individual rights that have nothing to do with other people. Got it?

You are just seeing the two extremes: government controlling our individual rights completely and the anarchy. You simply ignore/forget there is a whole lot between those two.

By the way i just noticed your reply in the other post so i will talk about it now:

You are comparing apples to oranges. Drinking is done in private by those under-aged, so it is doubtful raising the age floor for alcohol consumption will do anything to deter consumption. By its very nature, the porn industry functions out in the open. If made illegal, we should be able to eliminate a vast majority of the industry. Who is going to hold an underground porn conference?

First of all, you addressed just the part that you felt convenient in her statement, the drinking. What about the others? Driving, gambling, voting and joining the service can not be rebutted by your reply.

Second, if that is your argument against drinking, then how about not having an age floor for drinking? According to your own argument, the current law is not making any difference, so why stick to it, right? Oh, but if it does make a difference then there would be a point in raising the age floor to 25 years old.

 

[Vendetta]

Let me ask you a question. Should two consenting adults be able to fight to the death?



You are utilising a double-standard. Yes, victims may have become complacent in their relationship, but according to your standard, as long as the participant is a consenting adult, shouldn't he or she be free to make that choice? There are plenty of other men/women out there to go have a relationship with. You see, in the abusive scenario you consider psychological reasons, but when it comes to pornography you throw those out the window. Maybe a man in pornography is in it for self-esteem issues. Maybe a woman is involved doing it, because she doesn't know feel any worth in herself besides her body image in an overly sexualised culture. A typical scenario is the heterosexual male who performs in gay porn, because it pays more.



I have no problem with you filming yourself having sex and putting it on the internet. That is fine. I am merely concerned with the wage-labour monetary dimension to it.

The problem with your view, like Dworkin-Mackinnon, is that you are.comparing poenography with physical abuse. You tell others you are.comparing apples to oranges yet you are doing it yourself. Should two consenting adults fight to the death?

Apparently you don't watch boxing or MMA.

Apparently sexes perceive pornography differently and as you have shown, pornography to you is "physical harm" yet, you haven't shown any psychological research to provide validity. I am a researcher and I look at peer reviewed articles daily so if you can provide evidence I would appreciate it.

Most people on RF that is familiar with pornography would not equate porn with spousal or sexual abuse. When I said women (or men) become complacent in abusive relationships I am referring to the psychological instability of that relationship because its constant emotional stress which the victim feels they have little option of escape. A porn star is not only financially compensated but has the choice of not performing sexual acts. The only way a pot star becomes complacent, is the constant financial success. Sure, you have some addicted to the lifestyle but I have a hard time making correlations between domestic violence and porn.

 

[Dezzie]

I am not under the illusion we could ban pornography-for-profit any time soon in the United States, but how about a compromise. We keep pornography legal, but set the age floor for participation at 25. The pornography preys on young people who are still not cognitively and emotionally developed. Taking those victims out of the equation would be a step in the right direction.

I completely agree with this as well but there is no way this would ever happen. I am taking a guess here but isn't porn with younger people more popular? If it is, this just helps the adult film industry make more money. They aren't going to get rid of that. It's the same thing with cigarettes. They don't care if they are bad for you. They just want the money.

 

[ninerbuff]

I completely agree with this as well but there is no way this would ever happen. I am taking a guess here but isn't porn with younger people more popular? If it is, this just helps the adult film industry make more money. They aren't going to get rid of that. It's the same thing with cigarettes. They don't care if they are bad for you. They just want the money.

I doubt it too. Especially now that unlike porn from the past where you had to go to a theater to watch it (and be labeled a pervert or skank) today the internet allows anyone to view it as long as you have it.

 

[blackout]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean that 18 year old shouldn't be legally allowed to WATCH porn. :no:

I was referring to 18, 19, 20 year olds being filmed IN porn movies, for profit.
Come to think of it, the sex shop around here that I occasionally visit
does not even let anyone in under the age of 21. ???

Is that a law?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If you can't see 18 year old hotties in porn, what's the point?

 

[blackout]

If you can't see 18 year old hotties in porn, what's the point?

wow.

I hardly know what to say to that.

How old is your wife?
Do you enjoy looking at her?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

wow.

I hardly know what to say to that.

How old is your wife?
Do you enjoy looking at her?

Do you take anything I say seriously?

However, my wife is 33 and I do enjoy looking at her. I also enjoy looking at 18 year olds. I also enjoy looking at chicks with purple hair. I also enjoy pancakes.

 

[blackout]

ah.

yes. sarcasm. I should have realized.
I've been here long enough.

 

[blackout]

I really DON'T like watching teenage girls/young women
engaging in sexual activity.
My own daughter is 18.

There are MANY hotter than hot Cougars out there.

If there is ANY question in my mind that anyone in a porno
could possibly fit an age spectrum of 16/17 to 19/20
I get very uneasy.
It's a turnoff,
and I turn it off.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I really DON'T like watching teenage girls/young women
engaging in sexual activity.
My own daughter is 18.

Is she single?

 

[Rakhel]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean that 18 year old shouldn't be legally allowed to WATCH porn. :no:

I was referring to 18, 19, 20 year olds being filmed IN porn movies, for profit.
Come to think of it, the sex shop around here that I occasionally visit
does not even let anyone in under the age of 21. ???

Is that a law?

It may be more of a store policy but it could vary from state to state.

 

[painted wolf]

I don't know... we let 12 and 13 year old girls get married. Aren't complaints about young women in pornography a little hypocritical in comparison?

wa:do

 

[Darkness]

And i said "yes" to your question so unless you want to expand on that your argument failed.

Don't care enough to go down that road. If I can prove my point by the same logic that says two consenting adults should not be allowed to fight to the death, I am satisfied with that.

What? Obviously each individual right should be respected to the point it doesn't interfere with another individual's right. We do need a government to enforce this, however we do not need a government to restrict our individual rights that have nothing to do with other people. Got it?

No, I do not get it. I find liberal/libertarian theory to be absurd and morally bankrupt.

You are just seeing the two extremes: government controlling our individual rights completely and the anarchy. You simply ignore/forget there is a whole lot between those two.

How exactly is not allowing pornography-for-profit controlling our individual rights completely?

First of all, you addressed just the part that you felt convenient in her statement, the drinking. What about the others? Driving, gambling, voting and joining the service can not be rebutted by your reply.

Second, if that is your argument against drinking, then how about not having an age floor for drinking? According to your own argument, the current law is not making any difference, so why stick to it, right? Oh, but if it does make a difference then there would be a point in raising the age floor to 25 years old.

Forgive me for not addressing every single point raised. I do not posses unlimited time. First of all, I am not sure there should be an age floor for drinking. Italy has no legal limit, if I am not mistaken, and my Italian sociologist professor tells me that students do not drink nearly as much alcohol as we do in the United States.

Secondly, I am less inclined to raise the driving age to 18, because driving has socially valuable outcomes. That is, an 18-year-old being able to drive a car allows him or her to commute to school or commute to work. I do not see such valuable outcomes with watching pornography. In fact, I see many more dangers than positives in the viewing of pornography.

 

[Darkness]

The problem with your view, like Dworkin-Mackinnon, is that you are.comparing poenography with physical abuse. You tell others you are.comparing apples to oranges yet you are doing it yourself. Should two consenting adults fight to the death?

Apparently you don't watch boxing or MMA.

I believe I have already stated that the intention of my analogies was not to say that all pornography is akin to violence. I am merely seeking to establish that most of us put restrictions on the limits of "adult consent."

Apparently sexes perceive pornography differently and as you have shown, pornography to you is "physical harm" yet, you haven't shown any psychological research to provide validity. I am a researcher and I look at peer reviewed articles daily so if you can provide evidence I would appreciate it.

Track down "Dissociation among women in prostitution" by Colin A. Ross, Melissa Farley and Harvey L. Schwartz. It does not with pornography, but it does investigate stripping, which is a more mild form of sex work than pornography.

Most people on RF that is familiar with pornography would not equate porn with spousal or sexual abuse. When I said women (or men) become complacent in abusive relationships I am referring to the psychological instability of that relationship because its constant emotional stress which the victim feels they have little option of escape. A porn star is not only financially compensated but has the choice of not performing sexual acts. The only way a pot star becomes complacent, is the constant financial success. Sure, you have some addicted to the lifestyle but I have a hard time making correlations between domestic violence and porn.

I honestly have to do more research into pornography. My primary focus is on prostitution and sex trafficking. However, it given the high levels of PSTD, child sexual abuse, etc. in women who work on low-budget pornography (and the correlation with prostitution), I would be very surprised if the same problems were not present in more mainstream pornography (i.e. the kind that is packaged and wrapped).