Is Porn Inherently Degrading?

[DallasApple]

That's a good site to check out.
Thank you.

I can't remember if I found this or someone else posted it,
BBC NEWS | South Asia | India rebels 'making porn films'

It regards military factions using pornography to fund their activities.

I think much of the confusion can also be set aside by distinguishing between soft core that receives play on cable channels such as Cinemax, Encore and the Oxygen channel as opposed to other varieties of porn. While they may be soft core they are still porn by definition.

I will have to say..I just don't have the same "sadness" over simulated sex scenes or "soft core" porn..I think its "over saturated"..but it doesnt make me so angry inside or sad....

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

They are having sex. This is what some men and women do whether there is a camera on them or not. There are also some women who (without getting to graphic) “gush” and there are some men who allow (prefer) this on them (sorry about having to get explicit).

And there are some women who can achieve this on film..For the enjoyment of mostly male viewers who like to WATCH a woman "gush"...They dont care about watching the man..They want to see her ....

And hey..at least if the woman is cared enough about to reach that level of sexual excitement..Thats an improvement..

And yes..thanks for the sex ed..But I realize full good and well sex between men and women existed before movie cameras...

I've seen the paintings on the cave walls..Plus..we exist and have for quite a number of years before internet downloads of porn hit 7 out of 10 U.S homes...

Love

Dallas

 

[Circle_One]

(Just letting you all know (mainly Phil and Storm) that I will respond to your posts. There's just 21 pages of posts for me to read and I don't have the time to read them all right now. I will get back to you though. I enjoy this discussion.)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Here's the thing that I can sympathize with....that in this day and age, we can still see women's subjugation in our culture as TVOR and lilithu pointed out. And seeing a woman in complete sexual submission that fuels an industry is something that must be noted. I can certainly empathize with that as someone who wishes to see society stop treating women inequally overall. What I disagree with here in regards to the OP, is that porn in and of itself is inherently degrading.

I agree that the conditions that many porn stars (and a noteworthy majority of them, too) enter into the industry is more than questionable. What I disagree with is that porn - by itself without any cultural attachments to it - is degrading. I still see it as an form of art. It's a very hyper-masculine and "in your face" kind of art, but it's an expression of visual stimuli, nonetheless.

Now.....is it crappy art? That's up to the individual. Do the female stars in porn that is marketed toward the American prejudiced ego suffer from severe boundary issues themselves? I can certainly see that.

I don't see the jump from the statistics to the conclusion that pornography is inherently degrading to women. We then would have to include gay male porn and other fringe porn industries that gnomon mentioned before. We would also have to include other forms of erotica where women are not in any forms of subjugation, but are in positions of domination on screen.

This is where, despite my disagreement with Lana, that I can sympathize with her. Seeing a woman subjugated is not supposed to be pleasing, but when it either arouses us or disgusts us, we are faced with our own psyche concerning the subject of female subjugation strictly for male pleasure. I think the dialogue can serve more people and to find more common ground when we expand the scope to point the finger back at ourselves, and to consider and contemplate exactly WHY porn may "get me off" or why "it disgusts me."

Discussions and debates like this are so important, imo, because it opens us up to contemplate where we are in our collective psyche when it comes to women at the sexual beck-and-call of men. Personally, I think blaming porn itself is merely making it the scapegoat.

 

[Laremst]

I've never really seen porn as being a good or bad thing, its just there to please us. It shouldn't have a major affect on one's life (unless you make your money that way).

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Without question, the vast majority of women (and men) want to be loved and cherished, and want to be part of a stable relationship. That does NOT mean that all women (or men) have that as a goal in life.

I understand that you (and many others) don't agree with pornography. The question of the OP is whether porn is "inherently degrading". Your response projects your values onto ALL women that work in the industry. It begs the question at hand.

I think everyone can agree that there are people (both genders) that work in porn that suffer from low self esteem, were abused as children, and suffer permanent emotional scarring. I don't think that is even open for debate. On the other hand, we seem to have trouble in reaching consensus in this thread that there are, in fact, normal, well adjusted, mentally healthy individuals that work in porn by choice - that actually enjoy what they do, are making a very comfortable living doing it, and will (at the time of their choosing) walk away from their careers.

To suggest that no such individuals exist is burying one's head in the sand.

The problem with this thread is (as gnomon pointed out) that we have people making blanket statements based on assumptions and projecting their own biases.

Listen to gnomon - he is right (at least in this thread).

Thank you.....it is what I have been saying as well...from the beginning...

 

[Father Heathen]

I think it puts out a terrible message.

A lot of things in life do, but should we censor and silence everything that offends our sensibilities? When it comes to rights and liberty, we sometimes have to tolerate things we don't particularly like (as long as they're not injustices that violate the rights of other people, of course).

A lot of the younger generation have access to porn over the internet,

That's a parental responsibility.

and would you treat your partner the way women are treated in those films?

Of course I wouldn't (unless they liked it and wanted it that way).

Of course not, its terribly degrading and shows little respect for women. Whats even worse is that viewers will like it, and expect to treat their partners the same way.

Then it would be time for the girl to dump him and find a man with better character.

I also think its harmful, especially when prostitution is concerned. It gives me the feeling that women become "objects" and not "people."

Then I would recommend that those who feel the same as you not become or solicit prostitutes.

 

[cardero]

Has anyone who holds the degrading position about pornography ever made a porno with their partner? Zack? Miri? Anyone? Is there anyone who was ever been propositioned by their partner? If anyone has said no what were the reasons behind your answer?

 

[mrscardero]

I myself don't feel porn is degrading.
Men are not the only ones that direct movies for mens pleasure.
There are women directors for almost everyones pleasure.

Here are a list of some women directors.

Tristan Taormino: Better known as a sex educator, advice
columnist. Tristan Taormino has started directing some of
the most creative mainstream porn movies on the market.
Her latest movie, Chemistry, won an AVN Award for the
Best Gonzo Release of 2007.

Anna Span: The first female porn director from the U.K.,
Anna Span specializes in glossy, independent productions
with amateur actors. A member of Feminists Against Censorship,
Span earned an arts degree in film and video,
and her dissertation was a manifesto on women-centered
porn. Her movies are distributed through her own distribution
company, Easy on the Eye Productions.

Belladonna: Belladonna made her directorial debut in 2003
with the scorching hot Evil Pink and has gone on to direct
more than twenty movies for Evil Angel Video.

Candida Royalle: Pioneered the genre of couple’s porn in
the mid-80’s. She started her career as an successful porn
star during the 70s but founded Femme Productions in 1984
to cater to couples, a niche market she saw neglected by
the mainstream porn industry.

Veronica Hart: Earned a B.A. in theater, and her background
in acting is evident in her productions. Hart has directed
more than 20 movies and is a member of the AVN Hall of
Fame.

Watching a porn with 10 guys on one woman does nothing for me.
I am more into the infinity women on one man.

 

[Magic Man]

Do you disagree that the phenomenon of enjoying degradation is related to various forms of childhood trauma?

Yes, I disagree that it is necessarily related. If you think that, I'd love to see some studies that support it.

 

[Magic Man]

https://www.againstpornography.org/thingstoknow.html

Love

Dallas

That's very interesting, but it's nothing new. Nothing in there suggests that it is inherently degrading. The point is that not everyone who goes into porn has been sexually abused (that site gives the number as 70% who have been), and not everyone is emotionally or physically harmed by being in the industry.

No one in this thread (that I can remember) has implied that there aren't problems with the industry. I will readily agree that there are a lot of things that should be done differently. Where we disagree is that you think that getting rid of porn is the answer, while I think that changing the methods and the perceptions is the way to go. You're getting caught up in the bad side of porn, and not looking at the whole picture.

Alceste, you like some porn. That must mean that you don't think porn is inherently degrading, and that "good" porn can exist. All I'm saying is that we fix the problems with the industry, and part of that is changing society's views on the medium.

 

[lilithu]

examine it from an economic standpoint is pointless?

Trying to figure out which influence "came first" - whether porn influenced society or society influenced porn - is pointless. As if one could fully isolate it from the rest of society.

can you list some examples that have overlaying and influencing consequences on porn? Not arguing but asking you to elaborate on this --to help us understand your connection between sociological norms of society at large and porn.

I thought I did in the succeeding paragraphs.

that is a good observation to post. I wonder if that could be seen as something that makes porn degrading?

Yes.

 

[MissAnneThrope]

I don't see how porn is degrading to anyone other than the individual actors or actresses. Their dignity had a price and they were willing to sell it.

Perhaps what people really mean when they say "degrading to women" is the idea that porn, especially the abusive and violent stuff, "trains" men to see women as sex objects.

In my line of work, I've learned that the men who can't understand that porn is mere fantasy are probably better off having a way to satisfy their 'urges'. And so are the rest of us

 

[Storm]

I don't see how porn is degrading to anyone other than the individual actors or actresses. Their dignity had a price and they were willing to sell it.

Isn't that enough?

Perhaps what people really mean when they say "degrading to women" is the idea that porn, especially the abusive and violent stuff, "trains" men to see women as sex objects.

There's that, too. And ftr, I think that such men lose something in the process.

In my line of work, I've learned that the men who can't understand that porn is mere fantasy are probably better off having a way to satisfy their 'urges'. And so are the rest of us

Hear, hear!

 

[Storm]

I don't see how porn is degrading to anyone other than the individual actors or actresses. Their dignity had a price and they were willing to sell it.

Isn't that enough?

I mean, what I find even more disturbing than the degradation itself, is the fact that people find it arousing. This stuff wouldn't be so commonplace if there wasn't a huge audience for it, and that troubles me.

 

[cardero]

What can be instigated here is that since there is an audience for horror films, one should not ever be driven to fear, since there are comedy movies, one should never be able to laugh. Drama films should never arouse us to tears anymore than a porno films draws other fluids from us.

 

[Storm]

What can be instigated here is that since there is an audience for horror films, one should not ever be driven to fear, since there are comedy movies, one should never be able to laugh. Drama films should never arouse us to tears anymore than a porno films draws other fluids from us.

I'm sorry, but that made absolutely no sense to me. I have no idea what your point is. Could you rephrase, please?

 

[DallasApple]

I'm sorry, but that made absolutely no sense to me. I have no idea what your point is. Could you rephrase, please?

Some(and increasingly more) porn is a "horror" film..Its "horrific" what the actors endure..The difference is it drives the audience to sexual arousal..Not "fear"...

And Im sorry..I cant find the relavance between watching "comedy" that makes you laugh to watchign a real life person being REALLY choked and gagged to tears making you orgasm..

People say its "fantasy" and "acting"..but what we miss is that its actually happening to the workers..the blood is real..the tears are not fake..the gagging is real..the injuries sustained need REAL medical treatment..And the diseases are real that need to be "cured" or lived with for the rest of the workers life...not even to mention the psycological disorders as a result are not a "film"..Its what happens to them....The "fantasy" part is the actors are enjoying it and that a person of sound mind desires to be treated that way...and skips along unscathed with a large sum of money...

When you watch a horror film..if someone in the film is being murdered and chopped up with a chainsaw..The actor is not REALLY being murdered and chopped up with a chainsaw and suffering death as a result... that people watch later for "entertainment"....

Love

Dallas

 

[MissAnneThrope]

I mean, what I find even more disturbing than the degradation itself, is the fact that people find it arousing. This stuff wouldn't be so commonplace if there wasn't a huge audience for it, and that troubles me.

Well, then you are troubled by human sexual behavior.

It's been the same for a very long time and will still be the same way it is long after you and I kick the bucket.

Also, you need not subject yourself to people who get off on things you find distasteful. Let them wallow in the pig pen and stay away!

 

[Storm]

Well, then you are troubled by human sexual behavior.

IOW, "you're just a prude." C'mon, you can do better.

It's been the same for a very long time and will still be the same way it is long after you and I kick the bucket.

I agree, sadly. But WHY is it this way? I think it's symptomatic of our culture's deeply unhealthy attitudes towards sex.