Is Jesus God?

[Fool]

I totally agree with you. In Gen 6 were it says that the sons of God took the daughters of men, my point was that it's not saying that the angels went with the women. It was, like you said, Godly men took wives that didnt believe in our God. Probable pagan.

more likely tutelary and cross-cultural mixing. sometimes ideas from one culture cannot cross the divide because a inuit isn't going to know what it's really like to experience the jungles of the amazon basin.


there can only be ONE Absolute, or ONE Infinite taking infinite forms.

 

[moorea944]

Didn't an angel rebel against God and get sent to Hell? Isn't it true he wasn't alone in this little project?

Angels dont rebel against God. Can you give us a verse?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

science agrees with me.

energy cannot be created/destroyed

Energy is both created and destroyed all the time. The conservation of information is partly a consequence of this (that is, the law of the conservation of information allows us to formulate a conservation law that can be applied consistently to systems from black holes to photons without 1) violations of this conservation, at least so far, and 2) problems with applicability that stem from e.g., the trouble speaking about the conservation of matter or energy of so-called "virtual particles").

 

[Oeste]

Num.23:19. God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

I remember and old quote from Gracie Allen..."Never put a period where God has put a comma".

I find most people who read this verse put a period at "God is not a man" rather than continuing on with "...that he should lie".
This verse does not tell us God is not man, only that God is not a man that he should lie. In other words, God is not a liar like man.

Neither is God the son of man...that he should repent, and I can't find an instance of Jesus lying or repenting anywhere in scripture. If Jesus is only man, then he would be a liar and in need of repentance like the rest of us.

For there is one God, 'and' one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Agreed. This scripture is in accordance with Trinitarian doctrine, but refutes the Tritheists who believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 separate Gods.

Christ Jesus is a Man.

Agreed, but he also God, otherwise Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 9:26, and Philippians 2:6 are lies.

Peace.

And peace to you! I think we have areas of agreement but disagreement as well.

 

[firedragon]

I remember and old quote from Gracie Allen..."Never put a period where God has put a comma".

I find most people who read this verse put a period at "God is not a man" rather than continuing on with "...that he should lie".
This verse does not tell us God is not man, only that God is not a man that he should lie. In other words, God is not a liar like man.

Neither is God the son of man...that he should repent, and I can't find an instance of Jesus lying or repenting anywhere in scripture. If Jesus is only man, then he would be a liar and in need of repentance like the rest of us.



Agreed. This scripture is in accordance with Trinitarian doctrine, but refutes the Tritheists who believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 separate Gods.



Agreed, but he also God, otherwise Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 9:26, and Philippians 2:6 are lies.



And peace to you! I think we have areas of agreement but disagreement as well.

Jesus was a son of man, the same way you quoted. Jesus himself tells us that he was Son of man. But it's not necessary for Jesus to be a liar if he is human. God's statement that he is no human to lie does not make all humans liars and repenters. In that case Isiah would be a liar, thus don't quote his book. Also don't believe in moses, or Jeremiah. Throw them all out. It is possible, just possible that Jesus was a messiah and human, and a pure hearted, sinless, truthful servant of God. Jesus says, I with the finger of God cast out devils, I of myself can do nothing, don't call me good, only the father in heaven is good. She may Israel adonai ila haiku adonai ekhd. What is the first teaching, that God is one and worship him. Jesus is son of man, Son of man. And god has many sons. If Jesus is the begotten son of God, then ephraim will be the elder brother? Anyway, bottom line is, he can be human and truthful. Repentance can be for sins you are not sure if you committed.

 

[firedragon]

Lol. Phone autocorrect feature can be the death of a piece.

 

[wizanda]

How does Paul factor in here?

Because Paul makes jesus into the image of god, come down here to sacrifice himself for the world.

What makes these "forgeries"?

The end of Revelations is the easiest to spot, he bowed to the angel in Rev 19:10, and then again in Rev 22:8; yet completely changing the context.... The angel says to worship God alone, and then in the end chapter it makes jesus into god.

There is a whole article here, dismantling each line.

The first part of chapter 1 is a forgery, up to Revelations 1:9, as it shouts grace to the plummet line, atonement from washing in jesus' blood, misaligned the Alpha and Omega statements, and introduces John twice.

Plus could dismantle each line, and show how it doesn't fit, the same as within the article.

 

[Fool]

Energy is both created and destroyed all the time. The conservation of information is partly a consequence of this (that is, the law of the conservation of information allows us to formulate a conservation law that can be applied consistently to systems from black holes to photons without 1) violations of this conservation, at least so far, and 2) problems with applicability that stem from e.g., the trouble speaking about the conservation of matter or energy of so-called "virtual particles").

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/energy-can-neither-be-created-nor-destroyed/

 

[NewChapter]

God worked through the apostles also, yet I don't recall anyone referring to Peter, Matthew or John as "My God!". Why can't it mean just what it says?

The fullness of God was in Jesus, but Jesus still said "the Father is GREATER than I."

YOU are the one manipulating the Scriptures to make them say something that they do not.

EDIT - You're just making stuff up; the Scriptures without your adding to them say that the Father is greater than Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

What simile ? There is no simile in Isa 43:10. A simile is a comparison of two things. No comparison is being made . What is being made is an assertion. The EL asserts before him ---prior to him --no EL was formed. A parsing of the verb "formed" reveals a reflexive component pointing back to the subject -EL - being created by a third party. He is claiming to be Israel's one and only created EL/YHVH.

As a mouthpiece for God I believe I can say that you are absolutely wrong about this and too stubborn to admit it.

 

[Muffled]

I believe it makes us God to the extent we allow it to be so. Otherwise Jesus would not have to pray for it to be so.THis is the Paraclete, third member of the Trinity.

I believe it makes us God to the extent we allow it to be so.


Have you allowed yourself to be God ?

I believe so and most particularly when doing debates. I let God take over.

 

[Oeste]

Jesus was a son of man, the same way you quoted. Jesus himself tells us that he was Son of man. But it's not necessary for Jesus to be a liar if he is human. God's statement that he is no human to lie does not make all humans liars and repenters. In that case Isiah would be a liar, thus don't quote his book. Also don't believe in moses, or Jeremiah. Throw them all out.

If the book of Isaiah were just the writings and workings of Isaiah, then it should be thrown out, as Isaiah was a man of unclean lips:

"So I said: "Woe is me, for I am undone! because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts"" Isaiah 6:5​

Also, we wouldn't follow Moses because he was a murderer.

All the prophets were sinners and in need of redemption.

It is possible, just possible that Jesus was a messiah and human, and a pure hearted, sinless, truthful servant of God.

Not only is this possible, but true. Jesus was a sinless, pure hearted, truthful servant of God. He was a man that didn't sin, not possible for any man that is just man, for we are all born under sin, but quite possible for man who is also God.

The main Scripture to understand on this topic is Romans 5:12: “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned”

Jesus says, I with the finger of God cast out devils,

No problem if in fact you are God.

I of myself can do nothing,

Jesus came here as our example, to die for our sins and show us how to follow God. So of course he would not strike out on his own, or do things his own way. He would only do what he saw his Father doing, and only walk in His ways.

Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. John 5:19​

Jesus also states he sees his Father doing things, which is quite a statement considering that no man has seen the Father and live (Exodus 33:20)

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. (John 1:18)​

don't call me good, only the father in heaven is good.

Actually, he asked "Why do you call me good?...." rather than "Don't call me good...." If he had stated "don't call me good" I would agree with you:

`o de IhsouV eipen autw, Ti me legeiV agaqon; oudeiV agaqoV ei mh`eiV`o qeoV

hO DE IÊSOUS EIPEN AUTÔ, TI ME LEGEIS AGATHON; OUDEIS AGATHOS EI ME hEIS hO THEOS

But Jesus said to him, "Why call me good; not one is good save one, God.​

Nor does Jesus say only the Father is good, but he does says only God is good, and since Jesus is God the conclusion he is drawing the young man to becomes obvious. In other words, "If only God is good, by calling me good do you realize what it is you're saying?" Nowhere in scripture is Jesus stated not to be good. If he was no good, or just had a few blemishes "here and there" he couldn't die for our sins.

She may Israel adonai ila haiku adonai ekhd. What is the first teaching, that God is one and worship him. Jesus is son of man, Son of man. And god has many sons. If Jesus is the begotten son of God, then ephraim will be the elder brother? Anyway, bottom line is, he can be human and truthful. Repentance can be for sins you are not sure if you committed.

All men sin, and all men require repentance because of sin. Romans 3:23

 

[outhouse]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/energy-can-neither-be-created-nor-destroyed/

That does not refute a single word he wrote.

Your changing context to meet your personal needs here.

 

[Fool]

That does not refute a single word he wrote.

Your changing context to meet your personal needs here.

nope, the idea is the same. i stated the 1st law of thermodynamics in my own words. still applies.

allow me to give you another idea in context. E = m(c*c); which basically states that energy and matter are co-equal. einstein said that they were manifestations of the same thing

https://www.aip.org/history/exhibits/einstein/voice1.htm

"It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing. in other words their different forms of the same thing. one is simply the potential of the other. when a transformation is made from one form to another, the form is destroyed and another is created. the potential is their for the opposite. the form is transient the energy is potential, or kinetic. it isn't destroyed. it's transmuted.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/manifestation
3.A. 3. a. One of the forms in which someone or something, such as a person, a divine being, or an idea, is revealed

 

[outhouse]

nope, the idea is the same

That does not refute a single word he wrote.

Your changing context to meet your personal needs here.


He is a very skilled professor, and is giving you the exact details on this topic. Sorry your moved goal post failed

 

[Notaclue]

Neither is God the son of man...that he should repent, and I can't find an instance of Jesus lying or repenting anywhere in scripture. If Jesus is only man, then he would be a liar and in need of repentance like the rest of us.

Heb.5:7. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, was heard because of his reverent fear; 8although he was the Son of God, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered; 9and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal saving health unto all those that hearken unto him,

9and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal saving health unto all those that hearken unto him,

2Cor.5:20. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

21For he hath 'made him "to be sin" for us, who knew no sin;' that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ok.22:39. And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. 40When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, 42saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” 43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. 44And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.45When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, 46and said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”


43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. 44And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.


Heb.9:27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


shall he appear the second time ' without sin' unto salvation.


Ps51:5. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.


Peace.

 

[Fool]

That does not refute a single word he wrote.

it isn't personal. and whatever title he may hold is irrelevant to me. i've debated with others in their respective fields. it simply boils down to word gymnastics. words are vehicles that convey something, they aren't the idea themselves. they are just a way of conveying the concept. the concept can be conveyed in many, many ways; which isn't exclusive to one cult vs another.

its the difference between language used to convey an idea from 2000+ years to the present age.



a spirit is considered an animating force. the words spirit and force are from the 13c context; while energy is a word coined in 1590s. language isn't typically static, nor is there a one to one relation in form from one culture to another. the idea is conveyed innumerable ways.

spirit
http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=spirit&allowed_in_frame=0
force
http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=force&allowed_in_frame=0



energy
http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=energy&allowed_in_frame=0[/QUOTE]

 

[Fool]

Heb.5:7. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, was heard because of his reverent fear; 8although he was the Son of God, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered; 9and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal saving health unto all those that hearken unto him,

9and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal saving health unto all those that hearken unto him,

2Cor.5:20. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

21For he hath 'made him "to be sin" for us, who knew no sin;' that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ok.22:39. And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. 40When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, 42saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” 43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. 44And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.45When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, 46and said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”


43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. 44And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.


Heb.9:27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


shall he appear the second time ' without sin' unto salvation.


Ps51:5. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.


Peace.

christ isn't a single individual vs others.

colossians 3:11

christ is all and in all but not all have awakened to ONEness


the physical body is a heap of dust

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[outhouse]

a spirit is considered an animating force.

False.

A spirit is considered mythology.

 

[Oeste]

Heb.5:7. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, was heard because of his reverent fear; 8although he was the Son of God, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered; 9and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal saving health unto all those that hearken unto him,

9and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal saving health unto all those that hearken unto him,

2Cor.5:20. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

21For he hath 'made him "to be sin" for us, who knew no sin;' that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ok.22:39. And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. 40When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, 42saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” 43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. 44And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.45When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, 46and said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”


43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. 44And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.

Indeed, Jesus bears the sins of the world and we are redeemed through the blood of Jesus, but this does not make Jesus a sinful man.

Heb.9:27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

shall he appear the second time ' without sin' unto salvation.

I am not sure how you are interpreting this verse. I see this as Jesus bearing and taking away our sins the first time (upon the cross), but this is not necessary at his second coming, because the work has already been done.

"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;..." ( 1 Corinthians 15:42)​

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.


Peace.

There was no comment with this, so I am not sure how your interpreting it, but I do not see this verse applying to Christ.
You stated "Christ Jesus is a man" which he is, but if by that you mean he is not God, how do you reconcile verses like this one from Isaiah 9:6?:

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."​