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Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Orbit, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?
     
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  2. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    Another one of these threads. You're really opening something that's going to go nowhere.
    I don't think this is correct. The Father and the Son are distinct persons, but of the same substance. An act of the Father is not an act of the Son or the Holy Spirit. But all three are nonetheless one in the same God.
     
  3. te_lanus

    te_lanus Alien Hybrid

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    For me Jesus is a demigod, his Dad was a God, and his mom was a human. He didn't exist before his birth.
     
  4. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    Well, in Islam, Jesus is a prophet.

    If you're asking having Christianity in mind, then it is different and I want to know too. Some Christians say He's God and others say Son of God!

    I'm interested if the Christian brothers and sisters think He's other than that in some views.
     
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  5. JRMcC

    JRMcC Active Member

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    I think number 2 is a good question :). They had to hammer out the details concerning stuff like this in the first few centuries after Christ's death. Personally, I don't think that what they came up with makes sense on a basic level. You should look up Arian Christology, I think it makes a bit more sense. There's also something called Origenien (not sure if I spelled it right) theology, and I think this is a more reasonable explanation of what the holy trinity is. Both these ideas were rejected over time.
     
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  6. 'mud

    'mud ~~ Life is Stuff ~~
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    Jesus was a prophet that suffered from the delusion that his father was the one and only god.
    Aside from that belief, he seemed to be a nice man with some profound humanist thinking.
    Now about that god that was supposedly to be his father....anyone's guess ! I doubt it highly.
    ~
    'mud
     
  7. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    If all three are one and the same, logically doesn't that make them all equivalent? Do you mean "one IN the same God"? God contains himself? Is this panentheism? Or do you mean "one AND the same God" = equivalent? Your post appears to contradict itself between the first and last lines.
     
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  8. Awoon

    Awoon Well-Known Member

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    Invisible persons? Where are they, what do they look like, what are they wearing?
     
  9. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    I don't believe we should get hung up on taking things too literally and carrying them out to odd conclusions. Some non-Christians like to point out how too literal interpretation can make things sound a little absurd and then become smug in their non-Christianity.

    Jesus to me represents God's way on earth; brotherly-love, unselfishness and peace. I see no need to haggle over dogma endlessly.
     
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  10. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    I am interested in knowing where the idea comes from out of intellectual, not spiritual curiosity.
     
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  11. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    This question is more simple to answer, when you dissect the different theologies in the new testament. ;)

    The author of John and his letters creates an idea of jesus being one with the father, it creates the trinity, it even says jesus is the father. So if you're looking for a culprit to the idea jesus is god, it starts there.

    Paul says being the image of god, he has come down here to sacrifice himself. Though Paul is clear they are separate distinct entities, it is already too late for a reader, as they've read John on the way there.

    Yeshua in Matt, Mark, Luke doesn't claim to be god, clearly points at the father and deems himself not good. Within these gospels he warns about those that come after and use the term 'ego i-mee' (I AM) to deceive many; that is what John, Paul and Revelations have mistakenly forged, to make this ideology of him being god.

    Revelations has forgeries at the beginning and end of it, that again use the same terminology used in John (ego i-mee), that are then misconstrued to make him into being god. :innocent:
     
  12. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Well-Known Member

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    1) The idea comes from Jesus. :p

    2) John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
     
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  13. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the confusion comes from the word :"God." I think of the word God as meaning a family. In that family there is a father and a son. Some people use the word God to mean the father and that causes confusion. If the same word means both the father and the family people get confused. If you think of the father and son as both being part of the God family then there is less confusion. The father is God because He is part of the family and the son is God because he is also part of the family.
     
  14. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    John is made up! :p
     
  15. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    Well, it's all made up. But I'm interested in the rationale.
     
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  16. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    What's is the "Old Testament"?
     
  17. Tarheeler

    Tarheeler Argumentative Curmudgeon
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    Don't know. The Romans?
    Nope. The Jewish messiah isn't some God-man hybrid.
     
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  18. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    What I see is Jesus not saying he was God, but he was one with God, or the father. He said he can do nothing without the father, so all that Jesus did, was not of his doing but the father.

    Now I see this with us also, we when we are one with the father, we are declaring God within, we are not God as the carnal mind even though we are, its the carnal mind that separates us, which is delusional.

    When we are mature in Spirit, we live, yet we don't live, for now we live in Christ, we are now declaring the Christ within, the same as Jesus declaring the Father within.
     
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  19. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't. Reductionistic reasoning doesn't apply to a God that doesn't fit into our neat little categories of one or the other. Each person is distinct but of the same substance consubstantial with each other.

    They are all one and the same God, yet all three whilst wholly and fully God are distinct persons. No one understands how this works but that is what we believe God has revealed to us.

    Oh stop it. If we were specifically talking about Judaism then you'd have a legitimate point.

    Do you have anything but a non-point?
     
    #19 Musing Bassist, Feb 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2015
  20. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    Lets face it, how on earth could a mere man be god, all that is, it is nothing but ridiculers thinking, this is my opinion.
     
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