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Is Jesus a Mythical Character?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by roli, Jan 22, 2009.

  1. roli

    roli Born Again,Spirit Filled

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    Or did he actually walk the earth and do the things he claimed he did ?

    And if he did, is there something we should be paying attention to?
     
  2. whereismynotecard

    whereismynotecard There's no room on here!

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    Maybe he actually did walk the earth and didn't do all the things people say he did.
    I wasn't there though. So I don't know.
     
    idea likes this.
  3. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Persona Polytheist / Proud Ergi Staff Member Premium Member

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    Religion:
    Old Way Made New
    Does it matter?
     
  4. doppelganger

    doppelganger Through the Looking Glass

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    Don't know, think it's arrogant to claim one knows when one doesn't, and it doesn't matter to me whether he was or he wasn't.

    I assume that most if not all of the stories we have about him are mythological in nature rather than historical, because given their content, the time of their writing and their similarity to other mythological stories, that seems like a reasonable thing to do.

    Aside from that, the truth of Christianity is not in the believing in a history or ontology to me.
     
  5. zenzero

    zenzero Its only a Label

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    Friends,
    Surely he never wrote the Bible?
    Who ever did, surely exxagerated it.
    Otherwise surely there is no smoke without fire and so Jesus not only walked but was an enlightened person.
    Only point remains, is that few have attained enlightenment by following his way/steps.
    Love & rgds
     
  6. Charity

    Charity Let's go racing boys !

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    Since your apparently are a Christian, you say spirit filled, then I guess you and I both believe that He lives and once was here on earth. Others claim that He did certain miracles and apparently gave witness that He was here.

    As believers the thing that we should pay attention to is the fact that we keep His commandments, love each other as He loved us and keep the faith with the anticipation and blessed assurance that the Bridegroom will soon return for His Bride.
     
  7. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    19,902
    As Jesus left no writings, I don't think we can speak of his having claimed to do anything at all. The claims are those of others.

    I've made it abundantly clear recently that I do think Jesus was a real, live 1st-century Jewish sage. I think he was likely born at Nazareth and that he had a brother named James. I don't consider it unlikely that Joseph and Mary were his parents' real names. I think he was a disciple of John the Baptist, at least for a time, and was baptized by John, that some of his teachings have been preserved, that he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and that he was succeeded as head of his religious community by his brother James. I even think it's likely that James really was succeeded by his kinsman Symeon, and that there's probably a grain of truth in the story of Zoker and James -- that is, I don't really believe they were summoned to Rome by Domitian, but it doesn't seem unlikely to me that Jesus had a brother, Jude, whose descendants were known to third- or fourth-generation members of the Jesus community. I think the Ebionites were probably the most faithful continuation of that community, and that the Jesus movement was very much a Jewish movement, with Pauline Christianity diverging sharply from the movement.

    I don't believe that that gospels were written by eyewitnesses to Jesus' life, that they are historically reliable, or that they preserve the unadulterated teachings of Jesus.
     
  8. Buttercup

    Buttercup la vita è bella Premium Member

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    Even if Jesus really lived, it's impossible to corroborate all the claims he made nearly 2,000 years ago from testimony written 70 years after his death. Which makes the threat of hell even more ludicrous given the scanty evidence concerning who Christ was.
     
  9. crystalonyx

    crystalonyx New Member

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    So, what is the truth about Christianity?
     
  10. 3.14

    3.14 New Member

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    even if he walked on the earth its not like he did much i mean ye he cured couple people and thought about a couple of things but he was hardly the first philosofer or docter, in one year the average hospital cures more people then jesus ever did
     
  11. Charity

    Charity Let's go racing boys !

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    Some hospitals have also caused some deaths that were wrongful, but let's still give them the credit due them....;)
     
  12. Beaudreaux

    Beaudreaux New Member

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  13. lavagod007

    lavagod007 New Member

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    Right of the bat, I am an Atheist, but If believing makes people happy than let them believe. :) Ancient carvings have been found on wall depicting the ancients respect and adoration. The sun symbolizes life because it brings warmth and it banishes the predators of the night. Stars helped the ancient people track events over long periods of time, called constellations. The zodiac cross maps the 12 constellations and the course of which the sun travels through these twelve months. The sun sits in the middle of the zodiac as the giver of life or God’s sun. Twelve constellations represent the path of God’s sun. Horus 3000bc was an Egyptian figure. He was one of the first versions of the sun anthromorphpized. Life is a series of allegorical myths related to the suns movement in the sky Horus’s enemy was Set. He represented darkness The battle between good and evil or light versus dark is one of the greatest ubiquitous mythical duelalities ever known.Horus was born on Dec 25 to the virgin Isis. Symbolized by the star in the east, adored by three kings, became a teacher at twelve, baptized at 30 and started his ministry, walked on water, was called the lamb of God, betrayed by Typon, crucified , buried three days, and was resurrected. Other Gods that share these qualities are as follows: Greece 1200 BC- Attis, Virgin, Dec 25, Crucified, buried 3 days, resurrected
    India 900 BC -Krishna, Virgin Divaki, Star in East to signify birth. Miracles, Resurrected Greece 500 BC Dionysus -Virgin, Dec 25, Miracles, King of Kings, alpha and Omega, Resurrected Persia Mithra 1200 BC Virgin, Dec 25, 12 disciples, Miracles, 3 days, resurrected, the truth and the light, sacred ay of worship is Sunday.
    In fact, the number of previous gods sharing these attributes is staggering:
    Chrishna-Hindonesia Zoroaster and Mithra-Persia Baal and Tart “the only” Thammuz of suria Atys of Phrygia and Jesus.
    The birth sequence that is completely astronomical *Star of the East- Sirus, the brightest star in the night sky and on Dec 25 it aligns with the three brightest stars on Orion’s belt called the three kings. They all point and align to where the sunrises on Dec 25th. This is the birth of the sun at the winter solace. This is why the three kings follow the star of east in order to locate the sunrise or, the birth of the sun. Virgin birth- the constellation Virgo (Latin for virgin) also known as Virgo the virgin holding wheat, or the house of bread. Bethlehem translates to house of bread. *Dec 25th- Summer solstice to winter solstice, the sun moves south and the days become shorter. Because of this it was looked upon as the death of the sun.
    *Dec 22 23 24 the sun stops moving south for three days. It resides in the vicinity of the constellation known as the Southern Cross or crux. On Dec 25th the sun moves one degree north signaling longer days, warmth, and spring. This it is said that the sun died on the cross, was dead for three days only to be born again on dec 25th. This is why other gods share the crucifixion, 3 days, resurrected. It is the suns transition period before it shifts its direction back into the northern hemisphere bringing spring and longer days. They did not celebrate the resurrection until spring because daytime is thought to truly defeat the darkness as days are the longest. At spring equinox (Easter) the day become longer and overpowers the darkness. It brings life. The resurrection of the sun. The 12 disciples are the 12 constellations of the zodiac. 12 repeated throughout the bible 12 Tribes 12 Sons of Jacobs12 Judges of Israel12 Great Patriarchs12 O.T Prophets12 Kings of Israel 12 Prices f Israel Jesus in the zodiac 11th century AD Early artwork shows Jesus head with a cross behind it. This represents the sun in the zodiac circle. This is a pagan adaptation of the cross of the zodiac, not a symbol of Christianity. Born again every morning and casts away the darkness. Can be seen in the clouds coming from heaven. The crowns of thorns are the suns rays.
    Reference to ages- precession of the equinox. Actually an ancient Egyptian procession of the equinox. Every 2150 years in the morning of the spring equinox, the sun would rise at a different location or sign of the zodiac. It is called a precession because the constellations move backwards rather than forward like the normal yearly cycle
    25765 years to get through all of the signs This is also called the great year
    2150 year period equals one age Taurus-4300BC-2150BCAries-2150BC-1AD Pieces-1AD-2150AD-today Aquarius-2150AD-4300AD The bible broadly refers to 3 ages but foreshadows a fourth. When Moses comes down the Mt with the Ten Commandments he is outraged to see people worshipping a gold bull calf (Taurus). Moses represents the new age of Aries the ram. Upon entering the new age, everyone must shed the old age. This is why Jewish peopling still blow the rams horn. Mithra, a pre Christian god is shown murdering a bull calf in the same symbology
    Jesus ushers in the new age of Pisces (2 fish). This symbol is very abundant in the New Testament.
    Matthew 14:17- Jesus feeds 5000 people with bread and 2 fish.
    When beginning his ministry he befriends 2 fishermen that join him.
    Jesus represents the astrological symbol for the sun king during the age of Pisces
    Jesus’ assumed birthday is the start of this age
    1ad Jesus birthday is 4 bc
    Luke 22:10- Jesus is asked by his disciples were the last Passover will be
    “Behold when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water follow him into the house where he entereth in”.
    This is perhaps one of the most revealing astrological references in the bible.
    Aquarius- Is a man with a pitcher of water. He represents the age after Pisces when the sun gods leave the house of Pisces we will go into the house or age of Aquarius as it follows Pisces in the precession of the equinox. When the bible refers to the end of times in Matt 28:20 “I will be with you even until the end of the world. In the King James version when Jesus says “I will be with you till the end of the world, which is true as Jesus solar Piscean personification will end as the sun enters the age of Aquarius. It should be noted that the term “world” is a mistranslation for Aeon or age.
    It is a miss interpretated astrological allegory.
    Inscribed on Luxor wall 3500 years 15 centuries before Christianity
    Enunciation
    Miracle conception
    Virgin birth
    Adoration of Horus
    Literal similarities of Egyptian religion and Christian religion are staggering.
    The plagiarism continues with the story of Noah and the ark. The flood is ubiquitous throughout the ancient world. There are roughly 200 cited claims
    One need to look no further for a pre Christian source than, The epic flood of Gilgamesh 2600bc
    Flood
    Sent by god
    Caused by the sins of man
    Boat created to save animals from god
    Release of dove to find land
    Moses the lawgiver of the mosaic law (manou-India/Minos-Crete/Mises, Egypt)
    All were placed in a basket set adrift in order to avoid infanticide and were rescued by the daughter of royalty and raised by her as a prince.
    Sargon of Aca 2250 bc- placed in a basket set adrift in order to avoid infanticide. rescued by Aki a royal midwife and raised as a prince. Other Mosaic figure include
    Manou-India
    Minos-Greece
    Mises- Egypt
    Moses
    Check out the the ten commandments
    Egyptian religion is likely the primary foundational basis for the Judea Christian theology.
    The attribute of Egyptian religion that predates Christianity and Judaism are Baptism-afterlife-judgment-virgin birth-death and resurrection-crucifixion-ark of the covenant-circumcision-saviors-communion-the great flood-easter-christimas-Passover.
    All attributes of the Egyptian ideas that predated Christianity and Judaism.
    Justin the martyr famous Christian historian and defender of Christianity new the similarities and blamed it on the devil. The devil had the foresight to come before Christ and create his characteristics in the pagan world?
    Fundamentalist Christianity believe the world is only 12000 years old
    The bible is an astrolotheological literary hybrid just like nearly all religious myths before it. The aspects of transferring of one character attribute to another can be found in the bible itself
    Old testament- Joseph (a hybrid of Jesus)-virgin birth-12 brothers-sold for 20 pieces of silver-Judah suggests the sale-began his work at the age of 30.
    New testament-Jesus- virgin birth-12 disciples-sold for 30 pieces of gold-Judas suggests the sale-began work at the age of 30.
    Is there any non biblical historical evidence to Jesus existence?
    There were numerous historians that lived around or near the Mediterranean either during or soon after the assumed life of Jesus. Not one has documented his existence. To be fair however, that doesn’t mean that defenders of the historical Jesus haven’t claimed the contrary.
    Four historians are referred to Justify Jesus existence but only in a few sentences at best. They only refer to Christ, Christos or Christos which is a title not a name, meaning “the annotated one” Josephus reference was proved to be a forgery but still spoken a fact. You would think that a man who rose from the dead and preformed miracles would make it into the historical record.
    Why is there no historical record? Because once the evidence has been weighed, there are very high odds that he did not exist. Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun. In which they put a man call Christ (meaning anointed one) in the place of the sun and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun
    Jesus was the solar deity of the Gnostic Christian set. Like all other pagan gods he was a mythical figure the political establishment sought to histories the Jesus figure for social control.
     
  14. doppelganger

    doppelganger Through the Looking Glass

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    It's psychologically true. Like all great stories, it reveals the truth you bring to it.

    If all you do when you read a great story is ask yourself whether it's "fact or fiction?" you probably shouldn't have even bothered. That's the case regardless of whether one ultimately decides one way or the other - "believers" and non-believers alike.
     
    Nowhere Man likes this.
  15. angellous_evangellous

    angellous_evangellous Pater Familias Staff Member Premium Member

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    As Jesus gained more significance, and Christianity spread around the world, people started attributing local and widespread myths to Jesus, the apostles, and the saints.

    Being a (well, somewhat) monotheistic religion, Christianity consolodated all the significant myths and festivals of an area, assigning the mystic roles and festivals to various characters in the stories of Christianity, from Jesus to known saints to unknown saints.

    Christian churches were built on top of ancient pagan gathering places and Christian shrines and relics were simply ancient symbols of pagan spirituality or copies of them.
     
  16. Beaudreaux

    Beaudreaux New Member

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    I dunno, man. Christianity...Christ....they seem linked.
     
  17. angellous_evangellous

    angellous_evangellous Pater Familias Staff Member Premium Member

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    It depends on what kind of imagination you have.

    How linked are pasta and sause?
     
  18. doppelganger

    doppelganger Through the Looking Glass

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    I daresay you'd be hard pressed to find any religion that didn't start out by swallow up existing myths, synchretize them, and add local cultural flavor to them. Early Christianity was no exception. And as Christianity has evolved over the last 2,000 years or so, it has continued to do so. The result is that there have always been as many different "Christianities" as there are "Christians." And there's nothing wrong with that if it reveals something meaningful and true to each of them - unless part of that truth includes forcing your perspective on Christianity onto others, or just generally being a prat. In which case, you can expect that people will view your "Christianity" as shabby and shallow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2009
  19. angellous_evangellous

    angellous_evangellous Pater Familias Staff Member Premium Member

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    47,115
    Yeah, especially when the religion is combined with the state. Possible exceptions could be movements that try to reform and "purify" earlier traditions. Nothing just drops out of the sky, though.

    Maybe I'm thinking Hegelian negation?
     
  20. doppelganger

    doppelganger Through the Looking Glass

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    15,851
    Never. Those are always mythologies that are drawn up to hide the synchretism.

    "We aren't re-interpreting Christianity, we're just rescuing the original Christianity from the heretics, see?"

    Several of the authors of our Jesus stories do this very thing with Judaism. Chrisitianity starts off with the claim that it is purifying real Judaism by re-revealing the mysticism at its core - Jesus's stories are filled with examples of this. Paul sort of does it too, though he's a little more upfront about the fact that he's cooking up a new recipe.
     
    Smoke likes this.
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