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Featured Is it possible to understand what Allah/God is?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Conscious thoughts, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    You do realize that in the sentence, "He can never be your object," "He" - i.e. God - is literally the object, right? :D
     
  2. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    We can only identify what God has said are his attributes. Thats it. Like in Surah Ikhlas. Lam Yalid, wa lam yulad. He begets not, nor is he begotten.

    Thats one example. If anyone thinks they can understand God in his purest or what ever word you can use in full, it is in my opinion bordering delusion. There are many people who claim, and have claimed they are either God himself, manifestations of God, but have failed miserably in explaining God or understanding God. It shows by the errors they have made in their descriptions and apologetics.

    No one is divine. Thats what God teaches us in the Quran. La ilah illallah. No body is divine. No body has any divine powers. Zilch. Nada. Only God is deity. Only God is divine. Only God has any kind of divine power or ability.

    Thus, if anyone claims that they had some divine insight to who God was or whatever, they are lying. Even the prophet Muhammed merely claimed to be a rasool. Thats it.

    Peace.
     
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  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Of course. I figured this can extend in the form of mental puppetry.
     
  4. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

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    We cannot comprehend God in his infinite essence, but that does not mean we cannot know anything about God. There is no logical disconnect in saying that God is incomprehensible and that God has revealed certain truths about himself, the purpose of our lives and how we are to respond to said truths.
     
    #24 Musing Bassist, Apr 7, 2021
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  5. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I have no issue with you believing this, but I also recognize that it's not the only belief out there.

    While you may not abide by, say, apophatic theology, many Christians and Jews do.
     
  6. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Looks like you added to your post as I was typing:

    There's a disconnect if we say that God is entirely incomprehensible.

    ... but sure: if we say that God is partly comprehensible and partly not, then there's no issue with the comprehensible part being, well, comprehended.
     
  7. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

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    I would say God is ultimately incomprehensible. The finite cannot contain the infinite. But I would reject the idea that nothing about God can be comprehended.
     
  8. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus άντρας των αστεριών

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    Yes, many (myself included) are led at least partially to the faith through natural theology, the study of Creation. We can know His works but not his essence.
     
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  9. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    You seem to be talking in circles.

    If aspects of God can be comprehended, then those aspects are comprehensible.

    If some aspect of God (or God in its entirety) is incomprehensible - "ultimately" or otherwise - then it's nonsense for you to talk about comprehending it.

    It's no skin off my nose which option you choose, but when you tell me that things about God can be comprehended, it seems apparent to me that you have chosen one of these two options.
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    How do you know God and don't know God at the same time?

    If he can't be described by intellect how does one know what he says, feels, does, intentions, speeches, and so forth...wouldn't this signal you know something about him to know these things?

    Another. If he can't be described, using the word spirit or like word wouldn't match cause we don't know

    If god is unknown, prophets wouldn't know him and no scripture could be written by an unknown figure.
     
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  11. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus άντρας των αστεριών

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    You are describing a very anthropomorphized God, one I do not recognize (which is fine of course).
     
  12. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

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    God in his essence is incomprehensible. But God in his attributes can be meaningfully spoken of. For example. We can know that God is good even if we cannot fathom his goodness.
     
  13. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    To me, a god that isn't an anthropomorphism is a contradiction in terms.
     
  14. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I have no idea what you mean by "essence" or "attributes" or how you see them as different.
     
  15. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you can know god best through gods creation. Spend some time out in the natural world, empty your mind of anticipation of what to expect, hold the internal dialogue with yourself and just experience the world around you.
     
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  16. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    It means you are that or in essence, you are that which exists. What I find kind of intriguing is the similarity of this in meaning to YHWH.
     
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  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    E.g.

    God does not beget. Thats an attribute. You can understand it and easily comprehend that as an attribute of God. He simply, does not beget.

    But God in his essence, as in what he exactly is, is not comprehensible. Is he part of this universe? Or is God apart or cloven? Is he both? These are things that are not told, can philosophise but is definitely not known.

    See the difference?
     
  18. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

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    The attributes of God are the qualities of God. E.g. God is infinite, transcendent, immanent, good, just... ect. God's essence describes what God is. That which distinguishes him from all created things. This is beyond human ability to know.
     
  19. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    So you think that phrases like "God is infinite, transcendent, immanent, good, just, etc." don't describe what God is?

    You seem to be talking in circles again.
     
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  20. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

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    No.

    You keep saying that, but I think the problem is rather a lack of shared concepts.
     
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