• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is it possible to understand what Allah/God is?

firedragon

Veteran Member
Can we as human beings truly understand what Allah/God is in pure form?
Or can we only gain understanding of what Allah/God might be in his purest form?

Can we say: this is Allah/God?

We can only identify what God has said are his attributes. Thats it. Like in Surah Ikhlas. Lam Yalid, wa lam yulad. He begets not, nor is he begotten.

Thats one example. If anyone thinks they can understand God in his purest or what ever word you can use in full, it is in my opinion bordering delusion. There are many people who claim, and have claimed they are either God himself, manifestations of God, but have failed miserably in explaining God or understanding God. It shows by the errors they have made in their descriptions and apologetics.

No one is divine. Thats what God teaches us in the Quran. La ilah illallah. No body is divine. No body has any divine powers. Zilch. Nada. Only God is deity. Only God is divine. Only God has any kind of divine power or ability.

Thus, if anyone claims that they had some divine insight to who God was or whatever, they are lying. Even the prophet Muhammed merely claimed to be a rasool. Thats it.

Peace.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
If someone thinks that God is incomprehensible, then that's where the discussion ends. When people start talking about deeds God has supposedly done, or God's likes and dislikes, or God's commandments for humanity, they're implying that God is - to some degree - comprehensible.
We cannot comprehend God in his infinite essence, but that does not mean we cannot know anything about God. There is no logical disconnect in saying that God is incomprehensible and that God has revealed certain truths about himself, the purpose of our lives and how we are to respond to said truths.
 
Last edited:

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Looks like you added to your post as I was typing:

There is no logical disconnect in saying that God is incomprehensible and that God has revealed certain truths about himself, the purpose of our lives and how we are to respond to said truths.
There's a disconnect if we say that God is entirely incomprehensible.

... but sure: if we say that God is partly comprehensible and partly not, then there's no issue with the comprehensible part being, well, comprehended.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
I would say God is ultimately incomprehensible. The finite cannot contain the infinite. But I would reject the idea that nothing about God can be comprehended.

Yes, many (myself included) are led at least partially to the faith through natural theology, the study of Creation. We can know His works but not his essence.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I would say God is ultimately incomprehensible. The finite cannot contain the infinite. But I would reject the idea that nothing about God can be comprehended.
You seem to be talking in circles.

If aspects of God can be comprehended, then those aspects are comprehensible.

If some aspect of God (or God in its entirety) is incomprehensible - "ultimately" or otherwise - then it's nonsense for you to talk about comprehending it.

It's no skin off my nose which option you choose, but when you tell me that things about God can be comprehended, it seems apparent to me that you have chosen one of these two options.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
We cannot comprehend God in his infinite essence, but that does not mean we cannot know anything about God. There is no logical disconnect in saying that God is incomprehensible and that God has revealed certain truths about himself, the purpose of our lives and how we are to respond to said truths.

How do you know God and don't know God at the same time?

If he can't be described by intellect how does one know what he says, feels, does, intentions, speeches, and so forth...wouldn't this signal you know something about him to know these things?

Another. If he can't be described, using the word spirit or like word wouldn't match cause we don't know

If god is unknown, prophets wouldn't know him and no scripture could be written by an unknown figure.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
How do you know God and don't know God at the same time?

If he can't be described by intellect how does one know what he says, feels, does, intentions, speeches, and so forth...wouldn't this signal you know something about him to know these things?

Another. If he can't be described, using the word spirit or like word wouldn't match cause we don't know

If god is unknown, prophets wouldn't know him and no scripture could be written by an unknown figure.

You are describing a very anthropomorphized God, one I do not recognize (which is fine of course).
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
If aspects of God can be comprehended, then those aspects are comprehensible.
God in his essence is incomprehensible. But God in his attributes can be meaningfully spoken of. For example. We can know that God is good even if we cannot fathom his goodness.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
God in his essence is incomprehensible. But God in his attributes can be meaningfully spoken of. For example. We can know that God is good even if we cannot fathom his goodness.
I have no idea what you mean by "essence" or "attributes" or how you see them as different.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Can we as human beings truly understand what Allah/God is in pure form?
Or can we only gain understanding of what Allah/God might be in his purest form?

Can we say: this is Allah/God?

Maybe you can know god best through gods creation. Spend some time out in the natural world, empty your mind of anticipation of what to expect, hold the internal dialogue with yourself and just experience the world around you.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I have no idea what you mean by "essence" or "attributes" or how you see them as different.

E.g.

God does not beget. Thats an attribute. You can understand it and easily comprehend that as an attribute of God. He simply, does not beget.

But God in his essence, as in what he exactly is, is not comprehensible. Is he part of this universe? Or is God apart or cloven? Is he both? These are things that are not told, can philosophise but is definitely not known.

See the difference?
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
I have no idea what you mean by "essence" or "attributes" or how you see them as different.
The attributes of God are the qualities of God. E.g. God is infinite, transcendent, immanent, good, just... ect. God's essence describes what God is. That which distinguishes him from all created things. This is beyond human ability to know.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The attributes of God are the qualities of God. E.g. God is infinite, transcendent, immanent, good, just... ect. God's essence describes what God is. That which distinguishes him from all created things. This is beyond human ability to know.
So you think that phrases like "God is infinite, transcendent, immanent, good, just, etc." don't describe what God is?

You seem to be talking in circles again.
 
Top