Is "hard work" a virtue?

[Magic Man]

From Dictionary.com:

The earliest meanings of unique when it entered English around the beginning of the 17th century were “single, sole” and “having no equal.” By the mid-19th century unique had developed a wider meaning, “not typical, unusual,” and it is in this wider sense that it is compared: The foliage on the late-blooming plants is more unique than that on the earlier varieties. The comparison of so-called absolutes in senses that are not absolute is standard in all varieties of speech and writing.

Regardless, it still means that the U.S. would be one of very few places that offered what you said was unique to it. By using "unique", you do imply that there are only a handful of other places that offer the same opportunities as the U.S., which is untrue. If you had said it was unique outside of North America and Europe, that would have been somewhat accurate.

I'll just say this: The US is a nation built by immigrants who came here for the opportunity to improve their lives drastically. Four hundred years later and they're still coming. Our percentage of foreign born people is about 11 percent of our population (compared to 4% in the UK, 1.3 % in Japan, and - while we're at it, 1.8 % in Finland). Currently the USA is ranked 6th in the world in percentage of foreign born persons per capita.

Foreign population by country. Definition, graph and map.

So, considering there are 203 sovereign states in the world, and out of those 203 countries/sovereign states, the US ranks 6th in immigration rates, and since people generally immigrate to improve their lives, I would say that would strongly imply that the US offers many unique opportunities to do so.

That still means there are 5 states with higher percentages than us. So, are those five states then better for building the life you want?

All I would say this strongly implies is that people have an idealized version of America in their heads. "there are no cats in America, and the streets are paved with cheese." Of course it helps that we're such a huge country land-wise, which helps us take in more people than much smaller Eurpean countries.

Believe me, we're not running commercials in foreign countries enticing people to move here. They must have heard SOMEWHERE that the USA is a pretty great place to live. And since they tend to stay here once they get here, and then bring their families here as well, it must be working for them.

That's a very interesting argument, but as I said above, it leaves out the fact that there are five other countries with more immigrants than us. By your logic, that means there are five other countries with better opportunities for building your own life than America.

 

[twinmama]

Regardless, it still means that the U.S. would be one of very few places that offered what you said was unique to it. By using "unique", you do imply that there are only a handful of other places that offer the same opportunities as the U.S., which is untrue.

This was my point exactly. I hear this argument so often that I would really like to find out what are these unique things. What makes USA different from Germany? Australia? Sweden?

 

[Reverend Rick]

This was my point exactly. I hear this argument so often that I would really like to find out what are these unique things. What makes USA different from Germany? Australia? Sweden?

Right off the top of my head, I could not believe how many folks in Germany thought a refrigerator was optional equipment for a home. I believe our homes have many more appliances. Speaking of homes, it was almost unheard of to build a new home when I was speaking to my German friends. Most of them inherit their homes and think nothing of living with their parents as adults. The people who buy their own homes more times than not have to find an existing home.

When my German friends came to the states, they where amazed how many cars a household had. Most folks have at least one car per driver here. They really where impressed with our Harley Davidson Motorcycles as well.

They made mention about how lazy we are in regards to all our drive up window services and how we don't even have to get out of our cars to get food, cigarettes, liquor, beer, pharmaceuticals, dry cleaning and such.

On the business front, they liked how many options we have for incorporation and especially liked our tax rates.

 

[Magic Man]

Right off the top of my head, I could not believe how many folks in Germany thought a refrigerator was optional equipment for a home. I believe our homes have many more appliances. Speaking of homes, it was almost unheard of to build a new home when I was speaking to my German friends. Most of them inherit their homes and think nothing of living with their parents as adults. The people who buy their own homes more times than not have to find an existing home.

What the hell does this have to do with anything? All this tells me is that they're not the massive consumers we are. You're not implying they can't buy a refrigerator or build a new house, are you?

When my German friends came to the states, they where amazed how many cars a household had. Most folks have at least one car per driver here. They really where impressed with our Harley Davidson Motorcycles as well.

They made mention about how lazy we are in regards to all our drive up window services and how we don't even have to get out of our cars to get food, cigarettes, liquor, beer, pharmaceuticals, dry cleaning and such.

On the business front, they liked how many options we have for incorporation and especially liked our tax rates.

Of course they liked our tax rates. What they wouldn't like is how very little they got for their taxes if they were living here. Obviously, I'd rather pay 25% rather than 40%, but given the full options, I'd rather pay 40% and get good roads, good schools, good healthcare, good policing, etc.

Other than that, was this response from you really supposed to respond to twinmama? Her question was why people here think that America offers the opportunity to build your own life more than any other country. You responded by saying "because people here can be fat and lazy and build unnecessary stuff and have too many appliances and too many cars". It's not that people in, say, Germany can't have those things. They just choose not to because it's better for everyone. They still build their own lives the way they want to.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Well - since Kathryn doesn't want to give me examples what are the possibilities ONLY USA gives , maybe someone else would clarify?

hMMMM....CLASS, I don't know if that is true though. Of course USA never had royalty but neither did all European countries. And after visiting slums of east Oakland, Ca, and then visiting Marina and Nob Hill in San Francisco I would say that tthere are certainly huge differencies with "class". (Or am I understanding the word "class" wrong here?)

nope you understand it fully

 

[Magic Man]

With that, I'm done with this thread. I'm very bored with it by now.

In other words, "I made some stupid comments, and I don't feel like dealing with people calling me out on them". Gotcha.

 

[blackout]

All the "hard work" success stories in the world
don't change the fact that many many hard working people are sinking....
regardless of all their efforts.

I suspect we will be seeing more and more of that as well.

I am lucky. I grew up when things weren't as bad, and my dad supported us with a good salary,
sent me to college. I have skills and talents... I have developed worthwhile things...
that need marketing. And I am not a woman who gives up.

I have literally remade mySelf since leaving christianity
(which almost left me completely dead inside and out).

But if I had come from a less fortunate background,
there would be nothing else of a monetary nature for me to look to
than the regular full time job I already have.

And this would be many many people.

Yes, I protest. The system screws people.
The system screws good hard working people.

The cost of living is higher than the average earning wage.
Most people do not have the skills or background to earn more than a higher wage.
In short they are screwed.

EVERYBODY can't move to where things are good.
Things would not be good there anymore if that happened.

The system is STACKED against people.
And I protest.

Everyone CANNOT succeed.
It is inherently impossible.

 

[Mr Cheese]

The system screws good hard working people.

.

You like discussign being screwed a lot :flirt:

 

[Mr Cheese]

Everyone CANNOT succeed.
It is inherently impossible.

Unless its star trek the next generation....

 

[Reverend Rick]

What the hell does this have to do with anything? All this tells me is that they're not the massive consumers we are. You're not implying they can't buy a refrigerator or build a new house, are you?

They can buy a refrigerator but very very few can afford to build a new home. It is cost prohibitive. You would have to tear an existing home down more than likely and replace it.

Obviously, I'd rather pay 25% rather than 40%, but given the full options, I'd rather pay 40% and get good roads, good schools, good healthcare, good policing, etc.

Working at Petsmart, I doubt you actually pay much taxes mball. Yes, they withhold taxes from you, but I will bet you get most of it back every year. Let's say (for example) you bring home 300 dollars and now you get to bring home 180 bucks instead? It is too easy to let someone else pay for what you want. We are in a recession, rich folks took a beating in the stock market. People are working harder for less and many folks lost their jobs. Many old folks lost their pensions due to the stock market crash.

Right now the answer is to get by on less not spend other folks money like a drunken sailor,(no offense to drunken sailors). America is going to cut the politicians unlimited credit card in half. WE HAVE TO QUIT SPENDING ALL THIS MONEY. IT IS GENERATIONAL THEFT! OUR CHILDREN AND GRAND CHILDREN DESERVE BETTER!

It's not that people in, say, Germany can't have those things.

It is hard to build a new home when the house would cost 4 times what it does here and you pay twice as many taxes.

mball, here is a test for you. If I buy a Harley here in the states for 30,000 dollars what would it cost a German in Germany?

 

[Mr Cheese]

They can buy a refrigerator but very very few can afford to build a new home. It is cost prohibitive. You would have to tear an existing home down more than likely and replace it. Working at Petsmart, I doubt you actually pay much taxes mball. Yes, they withhold taxes from you, but I will bet you get most of it back every year. Let's say (for example) you bring home 300 dollars and now you get to bring home 180 bucks instead? It is too easy to let someone else pay for what you want. We are in a recession, rich folks took a beating in the stock market. People are working harder for less and many folks lost their jobs. Many old folks lost their pensions due to the stock market crash.

Right now the answer is to get by on less not spend other folks money like a drunken sailor,(no offense to drunken sailors). America is going to cut the politicians unlimited credit card in half. WE HAVE TO QUIT SPENDING ALL THIS MONEY. IT IS GENERATIONAL THEFT! OUR CHILDREN AND GRAND CHILDREN DESERVE BETTER! It is hard to build a new home when the house would cost 4 times what it does here and you pay twice as many taxes.

mball, here is a test for you. If I buy a Harley here in the states for 30,000 dollars what would it cost a German in Germany?

you eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeejit stimpy

the discussion was about the american dream and the ability to socially climb
not the ability to buy consumer goods......

the fact you equate the two, speaks volumes!

 

[Magic Man]

They can buy a refrigerator but very very few can afford to build a new home. It is cost prohibitive. You would have to tear an existing home down more than likely and replace it.

And? You can still build a home, can't you? Let me know when they start telling people they simply can't build new homes.

Working at Petsmart, I doubt you actually pay much taxes mball.

First, it's Petco. Not currently, no, but I have in the past. That's hardly the point, though, although it's quite a nice dig from you. That could almost be considered a personal attack, but I'll let it slide. The downright condescension is entertaining.

Yes, they withhold taxes from you, but I will bet you get most of it back every year. Let's say (for example) you bring home 300 dollars and now you get to bring home 180 bucks instead? It is too easy to let someone else pay for what you want. We are in a recession, rich folks took a beating in the stock market. People are working harder for less and many folks lost their jobs. Many old folks lost their pensions due to the stock market crash.

Is there a point in here somewhere? Sure, it's easier to let others pay more, especially when they can afford it and people like me can't.

Right now the answer is to get by on less not spend other folks money like a drunken sailor,(no offense to drunken sailors). America is going to cut the politicians unlimited credit card in half. WE HAVE TO QUIT SPENDING ALL THIS MONEY. IT IS GENERATIONAL THEFT! OUR CHILDREN AND GRAND CHILDREN DESERVE BETTER! It is hard to build a new home when the house would cost 4 times what it does here and you pay twice as many taxes.

What spending are you talking about exactly, and what does this have to do with anything? Any chance you could actually respond to what I said, rather than going on a diatribe that has nothing to do with anything?

mball, here is a test for you. If I buy a Harley here in the states for 30,000 dollars what would it cost a German in Germany?

Here's a test for you: If you buy a Budweiser here in the states, what would it cost you in Germany?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Here's a test for you: If you buy a Budweiser here in the states, what would it cost you in Germany?

a flogging!

Going to Germany to buy Budweiser is like going to Italy to eat chinese food:sarcastic

 

[Reverend Rick]

Here you go.....

Germany - Housing

 

[Mr Cheese]

Here you go.....

Germany - Housing

Your point?:sarcastic

 

[Reverend Rick]

Your point?:sarcastic

Many German homes do not even have a toilet much less a refrigerator.
I would say that if you wanted to build a similar American style home in Germany it would cost you north of one million dollars.

Another point would be the homeless numbers.

 

[Magic Man]

Many German homes do not even have a toilet much less a refrigerator.
I would say that if you wanted to build a similar American style home in Germany it would cost you north of one million dollars.

And? Did you actually read the article? Basically, it just said that after WWII, many houses were built quickly because there was such a shortage, and so some lacked amenities like bathrooms. What's your point? This still has nothing to do with whether or not you have as many opportunities in Germany as in America. You can still build your own house and your own life the way you want it.

Another point would be the homeless numbers.

And what are the homeless numbers? And then what do they have to do with whether or not you have the same opportunities in Germany as you do in America?

I know it's hard for you, Rick, but please try to stay focused on one point, instead of moving to several different points that may or may not be at all related in a desperate attempt to make America sound better, even if it means cherry-picking data that doesn't represent the actual situation.

 

[Mr Cheese]

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

USA is 50, Germany is 32

but because the price of sausages are cheaper in Germany
and the price of a harley davidson is cheaper in Virginia....

does not mean Germany is inferior

 

[Mr Cheese]

Many German homes do not even have a toilet much less a refrigerator.

.

what are you drinking that gives you this idea?:sarcastic

clearly you've never actually been to Europe have you....

dont have a toilet or a refridgerator....:sarcastic

 

[Reverend Rick]

Nope, I've never drank hot beer for Octoberfest in September three times. Not me.