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Is "hard work" a virtue?

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
those vegetables arent raised organic...
are you aware for instance that the common apple...will most likely contain numerous pesticides on its skin...WASH IT!

Are you further aware, by shopping at walmart you are eroding the overall economy of the poor?

Though I commend you for your dietary change. If you actually lived in a real urban area you would know how hard it is for some. You are correct though, produce is ridicously abundant in USA...

I just dont think its as easy as you proclaim, for everyone...

Thanks for the response. Let me clarify a couple of points.

First of all - we wash our apples - in fact we wash all our produce that we buy. I realize that some of the produce we buy in our local stores is not organic. However, I do buy organic when possible, and I haven't found it to be cost prohibitive when we buy it in our local grocery stores rather than specialty "health food" stores.

I am glad you brought up the topic of Wal Mart. I absolutely detest Wal Mart and in the past couple of months my husband and I have both decided to totally boycott Wal Mart. However, until about two months ago, we did a lot of shopping there and that's what I am basing my comments about their food selection on.

I do not plan on ever darkening the door of a Wal Mart again.

Finally - most Americans don't live in areas in which produce is not readily available. But I do agree that in a small minority of cases, fresh produce may not be super easy to obtain. Those cases are definitely the minority though. Even in urban areas in the US, common grocery stores, and now even some DRUG stores, carry a wide array of fresh produce, and produce is generally less expensive than processed foods. That was my point.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
LOL!!!!

Well the good thing about "health food" is it fills you up and you go to the DR.less.

I've tested it..(the filling up part)..i wanted BRAUMS ice cream.(FAT and SUGAR and its EXPENSIVE)..

So I ate a nectarine..And waited..and not only was I satisfied the thought of ice cream disapeared.And the nectarine cost about 50 cents.and was good for me.

I was craving again and got some ice cream..And I ate about 1.50 worth(3 scoops)..and felt temp immediate satisfactin and then was CRAVING more plus a gallon of water.

Pesticides? Are in everything.Including ice cream..So I would rather eat a nectarine.(its food).

Love

Dallas


Amen, sister. Though it's more fun, more exciting, and easier to buy processed, nicely packaged, and plasticized foods, most simple foods are just simply better for us.

Lots of people don't want to change their diets or their lifestyles though - but then they also don't like pay the price of bad habits, through their health or their wallets (or both).
 

twinmama

Member
OK, thank you for the clarification regards to healthfood.

Ummm..I don't know about European food. I would scream and run away if someone offered me haggish or kidney pie or veal brain. But I happily eat blood pancakes with lingonberry jam or cabbage casserole or my favourites raisin soup with rice porridge.:drool:
Here gluten free products are bit more expencive but if you have diagnose for gluten sensitivity goverment pays you monthly foodmoney to cover the extra expence. All restaurants - even MacDonalds/grocery stores have gluten and lactose free products.

Of course especially in winter time lot of produce must be imported and that adds to the price but we eat lots of berries during winter. Since our nature is still clean and we have so called "every man's right" anyone can go and pick berries & mushrooms, no matter who owns the land.

Strawberries,lingonberries,blueberries,cloudberries, cranberries - our forests are full of them. And since during summer sun is up 24/7, berries are full of vitamins and all the good stuff. And certainly no pesticides.

We do have organic products in grocery stores, they are usually little bit more expencive but it isn't much. We are talking about 10 cents to 1€ difference.

People here cook their meals, "boxed food" is available but people don't like them and use it only in summer house or so. But people here of course have more time to be with family since parents can be home and workdays are shorter and no long commutes.
 

blackout

Violet.
OK, thank you for the clarification regards to healthfood.

Ummm..I don't know about European food. I would scream and run away if someone offered me haggish or kidney pie or veal brain. But I happily eat blood pancakes with lingonberry jam or cabbage casserole or my favourites raisin soup with rice porridge.:drool:
Here gluten free products are bit more expencive but if you have diagnose for gluten sensitivity goverment pays you monthly foodmoney to cover the extra expence. All restaurants - even MacDonalds/grocery stores have gluten and lactose free products.

Of course especially in winter time lot of produce must be imported and that adds to the price but we eat lots of berries during winter. Since our nature is still clean and we have so called "every man's right" anyone can go and pick berries & mushrooms, no matter who owns the land.

Strawberries,lingonberries,blueberries,cloudberries, cranberries - our forests are full of them. And since during summer sun is up 24/7, berries are full of vitamins and all the good stuff. And certainly no pesticides.

We do have organic products in grocery stores, they are usually little bit more expencive but it isn't much. We are talking about 10 cents to 1€ difference.

People here cook their meals, "boxed food" is available but people don't like them and use it only in summer house or so. But people here of course have more time to be with family since parents can be home and workdays are shorter and no long commutes.

Which kind of brings us back on topic.
All this work is killing us.
There are simply not enough hours in the day
to make money to pay the bills, cook good meals,
keep the house clean, help kids with their education,
build your own career (on top of your job)
(cause 3 full time jobs still doesn't pay the bills),
and exercise both mind and body.

Commutes and the long work hours of multiple jobs,
are literally killing our family and personal lives.
All the quick crap meals running from here to there like lunatics
and lack of adult recreation just makes us all the more
susceptable to health problems as well.
If this all spells virtue.... please... I'll pass.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
If I lived someplace where three jobs didn't pay all the bills, I would move or make some serious lifestyle changes. Even though I am a firm believer in a strong work ethic, I have no intention of working myself to death. My motto is more along the lines of "Work hard, play hard."

I work in banking. I can't tell you how many people come into the bank and want a loan and we find that their debt to income ratio is totally whacked. But they wouldn't consider any lifestyle changes to fix that - they just want to borrow more money.

I would say that a debt-oriented lifestyle contributes greatly to many people's need to work long hours or a second job. They've dug themselves into a hole filled with high interest rates on non secured loans. Frankly, this is usually their own fault. But by the time they realize what they've done to themselves, it's too late.

The good news is, that with some hard work and sacrifice for a few years, people CAN and DO get out of this rut. This means downscaling on their house, the work/study program during college rather than taking out huge student loans, driving a clunker, doing without luxuries, (news flash - life IS possible without a cell phone, internet at home, cable TV, and fast food), and making a budget and sticking to it.

Most people aren't willing to do this. A few are though, and they give me hope.

Here in the US, we have the unique opportunity to create the life we really want. But this brings me to a good point - what's the difference between wanting and wishing?

When my daughter was about seven, we were watching the winter olympics and she said, "I want to be an ice skater like that." I said to her, "Do you WANT to be, or do you WISH you were? If you WANT to be an ice skater like that, it means lots of hard work. You would have to get up about 4 am every morning and go practice. You would have to cut out junk food. You would have to do your homework early and then go to bed early every night, in order to get up so early the next morning. Your weekends would be spent at tournaments and ice skating events. You would have very little free time to spend with your friends. In order to be an expert and to make it to the Olympics, you would have to sacrifice your current lifestyle. I would have to change jobs in order to accommodate your schedule, and between the costs of your ice skating career, and my limited hours to work, we would have to make some serious budget adjustments in our household. This would mean cutting out vacations, going to the movies, and things like that.

So let me know if you really WANT to do this, and we'll give it a shot."

She decided pretty quickly that she really just WISHED she was a little ice princess.

If you WANT to change your life, you can. But the more liabilities you acquire along the way, the harder you are going to have to work to change the direction of your life.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Which kind of brings us back on topic.
All this work is killing us.
There are simply not enough hours in the day
to make money to pay the bills, cook good meals,
keep the house clean, help kids with their education,
build your own career (on top of your job)
(cause 3 full time jobs still doesn't pay the bills),
and exercise both mind and body.

Commutes and the long work hours of multiple jobs,
are literally killing our family and personal lives.
All the quick crap meals running from here to there like lunatics
and lack of adult recreation just makes us all the more
susceptable to health problems as well.
If this all spells virtue.... please... I'll pass.

there'd be more time for sex too :flirt:

Finland is a tiny country though...

I'm fortunate here, we have the Amish, so if I want fresh produce is available...
We generally eat healthy, fast food once or twice a month...

Luckily I'm dating a woman who can cook, I can cook, but nowere near as good as her....
 

blackout

Violet.
If I lived someplace where three jobs didn't pay all the bills, I would move or make some serious lifestyle changes. Even though I am a firm believer in a strong work ethic, I have no intention of working myself to death. My motto is more along the lines of "Work hard, play hard."

I work in banking. I can't tell you how many people come into the bank and want a loan and we find that their debt to income ratio is totally whacked. But they wouldn't consider any lifestyle changes to fix that - they just want to borrow more money.

I would say that a debt-oriented lifestyle contributes greatly to many people's need to work long hours or a second job. They've dug themselves into a hole filled with high interest rates on non secured loans. Frankly, this is usually their own fault. But by the time they realize what they've done to themselves, it's too late.

The good news is, that with some hard work and sacrifice for a few years, people CAN and DO get out of this rut. This means downscaling on their house, the work/study program during college rather than taking out huge student loans, driving a clunker, doing without luxuries, (news flash - life IS possible without a cell phone, internet at home, cable TV, and fast food), and making a budget and sticking to it.

Most people aren't willing to do this. A few are though, and they give me hope.

Here in the US, we have the unique opportunity to create the life we really want. But this brings me to a good point - what's the difference between wanting and wishing?

When my daughter was about seven, we were watching the winter olympics and she said, "I want to be an ice skater like that." I said to her, "Do you WANT to be, or do you WISH you were? If you WANT to be an ice skater like that, it means lots of hard work. You would have to get up about 4 am every morning and go practice. You would have to cut out junk food. You would have to do your homework early and then go to bed early every night, in order to get up so early the next morning. Your weekends would be spent at tournaments and ice skating events. You would have very little free time to spend with your friends. In order to be an expert and to make it to the Olympics, you would have to sacrifice your current lifestyle. I would have to change jobs in order to accommodate your schedule, and between the costs of your ice skating career, and my limited hours to work, we would have to make some serious budget adjustments in our household. This would mean cutting out vacations, going to the movies, and things like that.

So let me know if you really WANT to do this, and we'll give it a shot."

She decided pretty quickly that she really just WISHED she was a little ice princess.

If you WANT to change your life, you can. But the more liabilities you acquire along the way, the harder you are going to have to work to change the direction of your life.

Honestly kathryn, posts like this, especially following my own,
really tend to **** me off.

I don't owe you my life story,
however, as much as I'd like to move from this god forsaken expensive state,
it takes MONEY to move.
I don't even have security. First months rent.
Money to take an airline where I might want to move for a job interview.
I have nothing but bill money each month IF I'm lucky.
then nothing.

We live so simply, WE COULD NOT POSSIBLY DOWNGRADE.
The only thing I spend a little extra on each month is DSL.
And really for web building, which I do for myself, for my own business
I need it.

So that's it.
no cable. no satalite. no cell phones.
old van that looks like crap.
no new furniture. no flat screen tv's.
no blue ray.
I don't even own an ipod.

What do you suggest Kathryn?

How shall I move.

(If you plan to answer me from atop your high horse of financial judgement, please don't bother.
It makes my blood pressure rise sky high. and I have no health insurance.)
 
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Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Why only in USA is this unique opportunity?

americans like to think this.....:rolleyes: its called the american dream

After all the President of America's father was a goat herder....

The American system thus allows for one to rise to the top.
Through hard work, you too can be <cough > <cough> rich and successful and have sillicone breasts, your own tv show and bluecross blue shield health insurance.

Of course very few do reach to the top, but the idea is that one can live in a ghetto, but through hard work they can leave it. Again, not always possible.

Americans like to 'pretend" or convince themselves USA is the land of oppertunity.

Immigrants, mexicans for example are just wanting to come here...
USA does ahve a better quality of life compared to many countries.
America is however 50th in the world for life expectancy.... 50th...

I think tis time for people to wake up, and realise the american dream, has fallen asleep......

Mexicans have actually began going home apparently, to work...

:cigar: have a cigar (Pink floyd)
 

twinmama

Member
I was just wondering why were you using the word UNIQUE. Just interested in what makes "American possibilities" different from other possibilities?

Main Entry:unique Pronunciation: \yu&#775;-&#712;n&#275;k\ Function:adjective Etymology:French, from Latin unicus, from unus one — more at oneDate:1602 1: being the only one : sole <his unique concern was his own comfort> <I can't walk away with a unique copy. Suppose I lost it? — Kingsley Amis> <the unique factorization of a number into prime factors>
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I was just wondering why were you using the word UNIQUE. Just interested in what makes "American possibilities" different from other possibilities?

Main Entry:unique Pronunciation: \yu&#775;-&#712;n&#275;k\ Function:adjective Etymology:French, from Latin unicus, from unus one — more at oneDate:1602 1: being the only one : sole <his unique concern was his own comfort> <I can't walk away with a unique copy. Suppose I lost it? — Kingsley Amis> <the unique factorization of a number into prime factors>

From Dictionary.com:

The earliest meanings of unique when it entered English around the beginning of the 17th century were “single, sole” and “having no equal.” By the mid-19th century unique had developed a wider meaning, “not typical, unusual,” and it is in this wider sense that it is compared: The foliage on the late-blooming plants is more unique than that on the earlier varieties. The comparison of so-called absolutes in senses that are not absolute is standard in all varieties of speech and writing.



Now - I could swallow your fishhook and go off into an essay about what makes the USA so full of opportunity, but I have a feeling that rather than actually read it to understand my position better, you'd just use it to talk about what makes Finland so (if you'll excuse the word) "unique."

I'll just say this: The US is a nation built by immigrants who came here for the opportunity to improve their lives drastically. Four hundred years later and they're still coming. Our percentage of foreign born people is about 11 percent of our population (compared to 4% in the UK, 1.3 % in Japan, and - while we're at it, 1.8 % in Finland). Currently the USA is ranked 6th in the world in percentage of foreign born persons per capita.

Foreign population by country. Definition, graph and map.

So, considering there are 203 sovereign states in the world, and out of those 203 countries/sovereign states, the US ranks 6th in immigration rates, and since people generally immigrate to improve their lives, I would say that would strongly imply that the US offers many unique opportunities to do so.

Believe me, we're not running commercials in foreign countries enticing people to move here. They must have heard SOMEWHERE that the USA is a pretty great place to live. And since they tend to stay here once they get here, and then bring their families here as well, it must be working for them.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Honestly kathryn, posts like this, especially following my own,
really tend to **** me off.

I don't owe you my life story,
however, as much as I'd like to move from this god forsaken expensive state,
it takes MONEY to move.
I don't even have security. First months rent.
Money to take an airline where I might want to move for a job interview.
I have nothing but bill money each month IF I'm lucky.
then nothing.

We live so simply, WE COULD NOT POSSIBLY DOWNGRADE.
The only thing I spend a little extra on each month is DSL.
And really for web building, which I do for myself, for my own business
I need it.

So that's it.
no cable. no satalite. no cell phones.
old van that looks like crap.
no new furniture. no flat screen tv's.
no blue ray.
I don't even own an ipod.

What do you suggest Kathryn?

How shall I move.

(If you plan to answer me from atop your high horse of financial judgement, please don't bother.
It makes my blood pressure rise sky high. and I have no health insurance.)

Shakespeare said it better than I can:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

But your response doesn't really surprise me - you tend to react very strongly every time I post anything about taking personal responsibility for one's actions.

I didn't ask for your life story - and you're absolutely right, you don't owe it to me. I have no idea why you are in such a wretched financial situation and I have no intention of judging you - and I couldn't anyway. I would be basing that judgment on only what you told me, and I have no way or desire to verify any of that information.

I am basing my opinions on personal responsibility and the ability to take control of one's life on my own personal experiences and the observation of others' success at doing so.

I sincerely hope that your financial situation improves. Sounds like you're really going to have to work hard to make that happen. If what you're doing now isn't working for you, then I guess you need to try something else.

You sound like an intelligent, articulate person, so the odds are that you can improve your life significantly over time. My point is that when people get stuck in a rut, they usually have to CHANGE DIRECTION - and that means taking personal responsibility, making tough decisions, and taking ACTION. This takes a change of attitude, heart, and mind.

I really encourage you to take a hard look at your life, and your choices, and do something DIFFERENTLY. I don't know what - I don't know your situation. But I bet you can change the direction of your life if you really sit down and think it through.

My ex husband was born in a tiny town in East Texas, a horrible little town that is still horrible to this day. In that town, you are either rich or poor - no middle ground - and the only rich people are white. My ex husband's parents were 17 and unmarried when he was born. His mother was a maid and his dad was a laborer - at least that's what's on his birth certificate. Neither finished high school. They raised their three kids in the depths of poverty - I mean, abject, nearly Third World sort of poverty. To further complicate things, my ex has a learning disability.

But he also has amazing drive. He decided as a young child that he REFUSED to live in that environment one minute longer than he had to.

I won't bore you with all the details, but I'll just say that now, he has three college degrees and is a colonel in the US Army.

My current (and favorite!) husband was also born in a tiny little town in Texas. His dad was killed in an oilfield accident when my husband was 6 years old. His mother had to go back to school in order to get a teaching degree so that she could provide for her two boys. She went to school at night and worked doing laundry for others during the day. Neither family could help much - they were all poor, working class people - dirt farmers, oilfield workers, etc. But she raised two fine boys whose work ethics were shaped by her example.

My husband determined that he would do things in the right order, try to shape his life so that his children were not put in a similar situation - basically parentless for the years that his mother had to work and go to school. He went to college, then worked his tail off in a very tough and competitive industry (oilfield) so that he could provide a comfortable life full of opportunities for his family.

Listen, in my line of work I see all types. Two particular types stand out in my mind - victims and victors. Those two types come in some amazing combinations. For instance, I see victors who have overcome debilitating physical handicaps, and I see victims who are attractive, intelligent, and perfectly healthy individuals. Two examples come immediately to mind:

"Tom" is 35 years old and has cerebral palsy. He can hardly walk and his speech is very slow - but understandable, because he's worked so hard for so many years with a speech therapist. Guess what his occupation is? He's a pastor of a small but growing church. You should hear that man talk about his faith and beliefs! He's mesmerizing! He's one of the most upbeat, positive people I know and he lives life with gusto. He doesn't make much money, but his enthusiasm for life says it all. Tom isn't a victim, he's a victor.

"Jenny" is about 60 years old. She has over $100,000 in the bank and an income of about $6000 a month. She hasn't worked outside the home for decades - her deceased husband's pensions and oil interests have provided her a financially secure and comfortable life. Every time I meet with her, she is miserable and does nothing but complain - about her neighbors, what the plumber charged her, how stupid her podiatrist is, how someone she knows talked ugly about her, etc etc. Jenny is a victim.

Whether you are a victim or victor in life has less to do with your actual living conditions than it does your state of mind. A person can't overcome whatever adverse condition is in their life as long as they are stuck in a victim mentality.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Shakespeare said it better than I can:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

But your response doesn't really surprise me - you tend to react very strongly every time I post anything about taking personal responsibility for one's actions.

WHile hard work is a virute yadda yadda yadda

most american live one illness/accident away from bankruptcy...

America is ranked 50th in the world for life expectancy....

couple this with the fact a CEO earns more in one day than a person on minimum wage earns all year...
:sarcasticdoesn't this raise alarm bells that something is rotten in denmark?
 
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twinmama

Member
you'd just use it to talk about what makes Finland so (if you'll excuse the word) "unique."

- I have never claimed Finland to be any way unique!!!!!And I never would say anything like that since I don't believe it!

I would say that would strongly imply that the US offers many unique opportunities to do so.

-I was asking sincerelly what opportunities does USA offer that for example Sweden, Germany or any other western country doesn't offer. I am trying to really understand this. Give me a concrete example.
Of course USA is heaven for people coming from third world countries, just like Europe is filling in fast people coming from eastern Europe and Africa.
- remember that I am married to American so please don't treat me like I am some American hater. I might feel sad for the cruel social system you have there but as far as Americans themselves - I'm a fan. My MIL and other relatives live there, and whole bunch of good friends.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
you'd just use it to talk about what makes Finland so (if you'll excuse the word) "unique."

- I have never claimed Finland to be any way unique!!!!!And I never would say anything like that since I don't believe it!

I would say that would strongly imply that the US offers many unique opportunities to do so.

-I was asking sincerelly what opportunities does USA offer that for example Sweden, Germany or any other western country doesn't offer. I am trying to really understand this. Give me a concrete example.
Of course USA is heaven for people coming from third world countries, just like Europe is filling in fast people coming from eastern Europe and Africa.
- remember that I am married to American so please don't treat me like I am some American hater. I might feel sad for the cruel social system you have there but as far as Americans themselves - I'm a fan. My MIL and other relatives live there, and whole bunch of good friends.

there is less of class structure in America (supposedly)
 

yossarian22

Resident Schizophrenic
This post actually made me angry when I read it. Which makes it somewhat unique i suppose.
If I lived someplace where three jobs didn't pay all the bills, I would move or make some serious lifestyle changes.
Ah yes. I would change my lifestyle from not working myself to death to starving myself to death. Or perhaps freezing to death. It would be a lovely change.

Or I could move.
With the money i don't have.

I would say that a debt-oriented lifestyle contributes greatly to many people's need to work long hours or a second job.
And you are wrong. The typical American is leveraged out their *** because their pay is just barely keeping up with inflation.

The good news is, that with some hard work and sacrifice for a few years, people CAN and DO get out of this rut. This means downscaling on their house, the work/study program during college rather than taking out huge student loans, driving a clunker, doing without luxuries, (news flash - life IS possible without a cell phone, internet at home, cable TV, and fast food), and making a budget and sticking to it.

Most people aren't willing to do this. A few are though, and they give me hope.
REALLY? Do you REALLY believe this?
I mean I know some people must by into the "poor people are poor because they are lazy ********" line that come out of libertarians and the right wing, but I always imagined people being unable to say that with a straight face.

Do you honestly think poor people are poor because their houses are too big?
Do you really think that people don't try to get out of poverty?

But I won't just spit out some rage fueled rhetoric. How about some sociology.

The vocabulary of a child before kindergarten is strongly linked to how well he performs in school and how far he takes his education. The vocabulary of a child before school is determined almost entirely by his parents and how much time they spend with him. Now you have parents working 12 hours a day 6 days a week and are barely making ends meet. How much time do you think they can spend with their child? Do you think his vocabulary will be well developed? Sure, one or two might be outliers and be phenomenal successes anyways, but the majority of children in this situation won't. And its not their fault.

That is just one example. Lots of people just get ****** by reality. They were on work study. Then they got a brain tumor. Or got into a car accident and are paralyzed from the head down. Or maybe a series of inane, unlucky events ruined their chances of finishing their degree.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Asking for clarification - what do people mean when they talk about expencive "health food" in USA? (clueless Scandinavian asking)
Just stuff like veggies,fruit&fish or something special, fancy food?
It can refer to organic foods, which are very expensive. Myself, I simply can't afford to feed myself off them.
As far as fruits and vegies, just after harvest they can be fairly affordable, but out of season the price is usually very high.

However, the sad truth is that most Americans prefer an unhealthy diet and lifestyle. Last time I checked, oatmeal, store brand milk, eggs, a bag of apples, beans, a whole chicken, fresh brocolli, etc were not prohibitively expensive. Chips, sodas, Cheeze Whiz, Capn Crunch with Crunch Berries, lunch meats, Hot Pockets, frozen french fries, etc are generally more expensive than foods that may require 10 extra minutes of preparation (and which are healthier).
Where do you live? Where I'm at, a large five dollar bag of cereal, dollar pack of lunch meat, and a couple dollar pack of chicken patties is not only cheap, but will feed me for awhile. As far as eggs, milk, and such, if it's on sale, then I can afford it, but paying over 2 dollars for a gallon of milk is quite abit.

If I lived someplace where three jobs didn't pay all the bills, I would move or make some serious lifestyle changes. Even though I am a firm believer in a strong work ethic, I have no intention of working myself to death. My motto is more along the lines of "Work hard, play hard."
It's not an option for many people. Alot of people are tied down by kids, parents, obligations, or whatever. Myself, I had to take a new job that pays better so I could afford to go to college so I could take the necessary time off from work to be able to go to school and still pay the bills.

Oh yes, and for many, life isn't possible without a cell phone or internet. Myself, I need the internet for school, because I live too far outside from town to just drive to town for my school needs. Some people need to be reached at any moment, and in case of an emergency, cell phones are very convenient.

When my daughter was about seven, we were watching the winter olympics and she said, "I want to be an ice skater like that." I said to her, "Do you WANT to be, or do you WISH you were? If you WANT to be an ice skater like that, it means lots of hard work. You would have to get up about 4 am every morning and go practice. You would have to cut out junk food. You would have to do your homework early and then go to bed early every night, in order to get up so early the next morning. Your weekends would be spent at tournaments and ice skating events. You would have very little free time to spend with your friends. In order to be an expert and to make it to the Olympics, you would have to sacrifice your current lifestyle. I would have to change jobs in order to accommodate your schedule, and between the costs of your ice skating career, and my limited hours to work, we would have to make some serious budget adjustments in our household. This would mean cutting out vacations, going to the movies, and things like that.
Maybe it's not my place, but that sounds like a rather harsh thing to say to someone who wants to follow a dream. Especially the parts that involve you, when it's your daughter's dream.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
LOL, it wasn't my daughter's dream - it was a passing thought. My point was to teach her the difference between THINKING you want something, and REALLY wanting something. If you really want something you're willing to work really hard for it.

With that, I'm done with this thread. I'm very bored with it by now.
 

twinmama

Member
With that, I'm done with this thread. I'm very bored with it by now.

Well - since Kathryn doesn't want to give me examples what are the possibilities ONLY USA gives , maybe someone else would clarify?

hMMMM....CLASS, I don't know if that is true though. Of course USA never had royalty but neither did all European countries. And after visiting slums of east Oakland, Ca, and then visiting Marina and Nob Hill in San Francisco I would say that tthere are certainly huge differencies with "class". (Or am I understanding the word "class" wrong here?)
 
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