Is Halloween evil, or is it Pagan?

[IndigoChild5559]

All Hallows Eve is Christian right? Samhein is Pagan, is Halloween Pagan or is it evil? Do you have a Halloween tradition in your home? I think I am gonna watch Halloween this year and other horror movies. So yáll dress up? Do you go trick or treating? Let me know.

It really doesn't matter what the history of halloween is. The only question is, what have we made it today? It is a celebration of imagination, one of the funnest holidays of the year, especially for kids. Enjoy.

 

[Viker]

My Halloween tradition is to put on a Captain Kirk mask inside out and then go around stabbing people.

It is a lot of fun and not at all evil.

Michael? Back in your cage!

 

[MikeF]

Halloween MEANS All Hallows Eve. The proper spelling is Hallowe'en, in which e'en is a variant of eve or evening. So it's Christian, the day before All Hallows, i.e. the vigil of the feast of All Saints, Toussaint.

It should be remembered that the "saints" in Christianity are all the dead who have been accepted into heaven, not just the canonised saints to which the church pays special attention. So All Saints is a time to remember the dead who have gone before us. This is probably the origin of the various games connected to ghosts etc.

Of course, nowadays it has been blown up by American commerce into a ridiculous and tedious pantomime, but that's just what happens when people see a way to make money out of it.

For a kid in the US, Halloween is far from ridiculous and tedious. Under a certain age it is really an awesome holiday.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Not the most accurate article (despite its name, history.com is very inconsistent source).

There is no real evidence for much of the "pagan" rituals they were made up between the 17th and 20th c.

It was common to have a pre-winter festival, but having seasonal festivals in agricultural societies is hardly intrinsically "pagan".

Samhain wasn't a festival of the dead, but end of (agricultural) year/pre-winter is a fairly natural time to think about spirits or death/mortality due to winter being a deadly season in pre-modern times.

There may be some cultural commonalities, but these are not pagan origins.

Just Google….there were other references

 

[exchemist]

For a kid in the US, Halloween is far from ridiculous and tedious. Under a certain age it is really an awesome holiday.

Is it an actual holiday in the US, then? Just for the kids?

 

[Augustus]

Just Google….there were other references

And if you look in more depth than a cursory googling you will find out that there are all kinds of references that rely on the same faulty information. 10 people writing articles based on the same made up information doesn't make it actually true.

The process:

Person X makes something up. Person Y cites person X. Person Z cites person Y.

Bob then writes an article citing Person X, Y and Z, and Kenny reads it thinking "look at all that evidence, that must be true, there are 3 sources!"

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And if you look in more depth than a cursory googling you will find out that there are all kinds of references that rely on the same faulty information. 10 people writing articles based on the same made up information doesn't make it actually true.

The process:

Person X makes something up. Person Y cites person X. Person Z cites person Y.

Bob then writes an article citing Person X, Y and Z, and Kenny reads it thinking "look at all that evidence, that must be true, there are 3 sources!"

We’re not talking “National Enquirer”, or “People Magazine”.
We’re talking Encyclopedia Brittanica, and similarly highly-rated sources!
What’s the reason you don’t accept them?

 

[Augustus]

We’re not talking “National Enquirer”, or “People Magazine”.
We’re talking Encyclopedia Brittanica, and similarly highly-rated sources!
What’s the reason you don’t accept them?

Encyclopaedias are pretty hit and miss, but I was referring to the history.com article, Encyclopedia Britannica basically says it is Christian but there may be some influence.

What is wrong with the History.com article is that it includes made up stuff about what druids did and the festivities that occurred, turns it into a "festival of the dead" and uses this to present Halloween as a direct copy of Samhain used as a kind of marketing ploy.

None of these things are attested to in the early historical sources.

 

[JustGeorge]

Is it an actual holiday in the US, then? Just for the kids?

Its a pretty big deal here. I wouldn't say its just for the kids, but its definitely targeted at kids and the young at heart. Businesses don't shut down, but some downtowns will stay open late and offer their own trick or treating.

One of my kids started talking about it at the end of August, mentioning it several times a day. Definitely his favorite. And my husband still dresses up and trick or treats; thankfully he has kids to take(but I wouldn't be surprised if he still tried otherwise).

 

[Revoltingest]

Whatever Christian roots it had, Halloween is
now secular...even more so than Christmas.
It's wonderful.
Costumes. Candy. And no inviting relatives
over for some lavish meal that the little woman
complains about having to make.

 

[MikeF]

Is it an actual holiday in the US, then? Just for the kids?

I use the term holiday quite broadly, as I think some do. Maybe it's an American thing. Even though government offices are not closed, as they are for Christmas and Thanksgiving, things that are widely recognized as shared celebration, commemoration, etc seem to be labeled as holidays, like Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's. There are non-christian religious events/celebrations that are not official days off that would be referred to as a holiday. Non-religious as well, like Chinese New Year in cities with large ethnic Chinese populations.

Interestingly, I don't think Mothers Day and Fathers Day are considered a holiday in the same way. What would be the word for these types of shared celebration and does that word better describe Halloween?

As for Halloween being just for kids I would say no, although much of the celebration revolves around entertaining children, much like Christmas in the US.

 

[exchemist]

I use the term holiday quite broadly, as I think some do. Maybe it's an American thing. Even though government offices are not closed, as they are for Christmas and Thanksgiving, things that are widely recognized as shared celebration, commemoration, etc seem to be labeled as holidays, like Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's. There are non-christian religious events/celebrations that are not official days off that would be referred to as a holiday. Non-religious as well, like Chinese New Year in cities with large ethnic Chinese populations.

Interestingly, I don't think Mothers Day and Fathers Day are considered a holiday in the same way. What would be the word for these types of shared celebration and does that word better describe Halloween?

As for Halloween being just for kids I would say no, although much of the celebration revolves around entertaining children, much like Christmas in the US.

OK I understand what you mean.

 

[exchemist]

Its a pretty big deal here. I wouldn't say its just for the kids, but its definitely targeted at kids and the young at heart. Businesses don't shut down, but some downtowns will stay open late and offer their own trick or treating.

One of my kids started talking about it at the end of August, mentioning it several times a day. Definitely his favorite. And my husband still dresses up and trick or treats; thankfully he has kids to take(but I wouldn't be surprised if he still tried otherwise).

Yes, I remember being amazed by the lengths people would go to at Hallowe'en, when I lived in Houston for a couple of years. In the UK my son did a bit of supervised trick-or-treating when he was small (up to about 9yrs old I think) and we did do a pumpkin lantern and have a tin of Quality Street chocolates to hand out.

But it was a relief when he grew out of it and then we stopped all that caper and kept the porch light off, so people would know not to ring the doorbell in the hope of sweets.

 

[JustGeorge]

Yes, I remember being amazed by the lengths people would go to at Hallowe'en, when I lived in Houston for a couple of years. In the UK my son did a bit of supervised trick-or-treating when he was small (up to about 9yrs old I think) and we did do a pumpkin lantern and have a tin of Quality Street chocolates to hand out.

But it was a relief when he grew out of it and then we stopped all that caper and kept the porch light off, so people would know not to ring the doorbell in the hope of sweets.

My husband will be doing this stuff long past the kids I imagine... no bother, though. It isn't my favorite festival, but its not particularly bothersome. I don't mind passing out candy. Actually, its refreshing in comparison to Thanksgiving and Christmas, which come not long after.

 

[MikeF]

Yes, I remember being amazed by the lengths people would go to at Hallowe'en, when I lived in Houston for a couple of years. In the UK my son did a bit of supervised trick-or-treating when he was small (up to about 9yrs old I think) and we did do a pumpkin lantern and have a tin of Quality Street chocolates to hand out.

But it was a relief when he grew out of it and then we stopped all that caper and kept the porch light off, so people would know not to ring the doorbell in the hope of sweets.

Ahh ... what is the equivalent to Scrooge for Hallowe'en?

 

[exchemist]

Ahh ... what is the equivalent to Scrooge for Hallowe'en?

Let me know when you find out.

 

[exchemist]

My husband will be doing this stuff long past the kids I imagine... no bother, though. It isn't my favorite festival, but its not particularly bothersome. I don't mind passing out candy. Actually, its refreshing in comparison to Thanksgiving and Christmas, which come not long after.

Christmas I have time for. It's a celebration that is fundamental to Christianity, dignified by centuries of tradition, religious ceremony, music (I love the old Christmas carols), special food etc. Ditto Easter. But Hallowe'en is just for kids and a bit silly. All Saints, and All Souls, the following day, do mean something to me, though.

 

[JustGeorge]

Christmas I have time for. It's a celebration that is fundamental to Christianity, dignified by centuries of tradition, religious ceremony, music (I love the old Christmas carols), special food etc. Ditto Easter. But Hallowe'en is just for kids and a bit silly. All Saints, and All Souls, the following day, do mean something to me, though.

I'm burned out by Christmas. We're celebrating Navaratri now(we're on day 8 of a 9 day festival), and in 3 weeks it will be Diwali(another major observance). Less than a week comes Halloween, but its more of a minor observance. Two weeks later, one of my children has a birthday. Three week later, another child has a birthday. Two weeks later, its Christmas. And by then, all I want is a nap...

My household has no religious reason to observe Christmas, of course, but we're not living in a vacuum. Most of my extended family observes Christmas in a secular manner, but its all about commercial aspects and gift giving anymore. There's all this race to buy presents for kids that don't even know who we are, and I'm not sure how to opt out of it without hurting feelings or stepping on toes. I don't think it would bother me absent all the materialism, but after Diwali and two birthdays, I find myself drained of resources and energy. I'm usually at the end of my rope by this point.

I'd say what we observe in our house is closer to Samhein than Halloween. Trick or treating is fun and we participate, but I prefer to keep some meaning in things. We do take out time to honor those who have passed in some form, and to give thanks for the bounty we've been provided. I'm not terribly familiar with the traditions of All Saints Day. How is it observed in a family setting?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Ahh ... what is the equivalent to Scrooge for Hallowe'en?

The Great Pumpkin?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Encyclopaedias are pretty hit and miss, but I was referring to the history.com article, Encyclopedia Britannica basically says it is Christian but there may be some influence.

What is wrong with the History.com article is that it includes made up stuff about what druids did and the festivities that occurred, turns it into a "festival of the dead" and uses this to present Halloween as a direct copy of Samhain used as a kind of marketing ploy.

None of these things are attested to in the early historical sources.

According to the definitions of Paganism on Wikipedia, and information provided on other accepted sites, the Celtic & Druid religion (religions?) were pagan…. They engaged in human sacrifice, to an extreme at times, from what archaeologists have found.

Take care, my cousin.