Is Halloween evil, or is it Pagan?

[Augustus]

According to the definitions of Paganism on Wikipedia, and information provided on other accepted sites, the Celtic & Druid religion (religions?) were pagan…. They engaged in human sacrifice, to an extreme at times, from what archaeologists have found.

Take care, my cousin.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with Halloween and there are very few sources that say anything about druids (a few Roman ones, then a few things written by Christians a millennium later that don't say anything about a festival of the dead where druids did XYZ.

Hence the History.com article is relying on made up information.

That All Saints Day ended up in the Autumn seems to have been either due to English or German tradition, not "Celtic" one anyway.

 

[exchemist]

I'm burned out by Christmas. We're celebrating Navaratri now(we're on day 8 of a 9 day festival), and in 3 weeks it will be Diwali(another major observance). Less than a week comes Halloween, but its more of a minor observance. Two weeks later, one of my children has a birthday. Three week later, another child has a birthday. Two weeks later, its Christmas. And by then, all I want is a nap...

My household has no religious reason to observe Christmas, of course, but we're not living in a vacuum. Most of my extended family observes Christmas in a secular manner, but its all about commercial aspects and gift giving anymore. There's all this race to buy presents for kids that don't even know who we are, and I'm not sure how to opt out of it without hurting feelings or stepping on toes. I don't think it would bother me absent all the materialism, but after Diwali and two birthdays, I find myself drained of resources and energy. I'm usually at the end of my rope by this point.

I'd say what we observe in our house is closer to Samhein than Halloween. Trick or treating is fun and we participate, but I prefer to keep some meaning in things. We do take out time to honor those who have passed in some form, and to give thanks for the bounty we've been provided. I'm not terribly familiar with the traditions of All Saints Day. How is it observed in a family setting?

Oh there's nothing formal, apart from attending mass if you are Catholic (it's what they call a Holy Day of Obligation), so it's really just a personal thing. All Souls Day (the following day), in much of Catholic Europe, is a day for tidying up the graves of loved ones and leaving fresh flowers etc.

I agree rather about the secular aspects of Christmas. That too is overdone and hideously commercialised. But I'm now old enough to have stopped all the present giving - everyone's kids are grown up and everyone has enough stuff. So now it's the other traditions, tree and decorations, carol services, Midnight Mass, having Christmas lunch with a nice bottle of wine, a Christmas pudding etc. which is nice way to punctuate the end of another year and have something pleasant to do while the winter nights are so long. I always get 9ft tree (I have 10ft 6in ceilings) and insist on the old-fashioned kind, even though it drops needles, because it has a wonderful resinous smell. I get it as close as I dare to Christmas Eve and leave it up through the 12 days of Christmas, so it comes down on Epiphany. At Epiphany one goes to mass again, and I make or buy a Galette des Rois, which is a French tradition, and set the living room back to normal once the tree is out. So I get a fortnight or so of things feeling a bit special.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Christmas I have time for. It's a celebration that is fundamental to Christianity, dignified by centuries of tradition, religious ceremony, music (I love the old Christmas carols), special food etc. Ditto Easter. But Hallowe'en is just for kids and a bit silly. All Saints, and All Souls, the following day, do mean something to me, though.

Halloween is my favorite; I appreciate its silly and undignified spirit! It's viceral and nostalgic.

Many of the silly Halloween customs share roots in Christmas traditions, such as trick-or-treating/wassailing, mask-wearing, and drunken revelry.

 

[JustGeorge]

Oh there's nothing formal, apart from attending mass if you are Catholic (it's what they call a Holy Day of Obligation), so it's really just a personal thing. All Souls Day (the following day), in much of Catholic Europe, is a day for tidying up the graves of loved ones and leaving fresh flowers etc.

I agree rather about the secular aspects of Christmas. That too is overdone and hideously commercialised. But I'm now old enough to have stopped all the present giving - everyone's kids are grown up and everyone has enough stuff. So now it's the other traditions, tree and decorations, carol services, Midnight Mass, having Christmas lunch with a nice bottle of wine, a Christmas pudding etc. which is nice way to punctuate the end of another year and have something pleasant to do while the winter nights are so long. I always get 9ft tree (I have 10ft 6in ceilings) and insist on the old-fashioned kind, even though it drops needles, because it has a wonderful resinous smell. I get it as close as I dare to Christmas Eve and leave it up through the 12 days of Christmas, so it comes down on Epiphany. At Epiphany one goes to mass again, and I make or buy a Galette des Rois, which is a French tradition, and set the living room back to normal once the tree is out. So I get a fortnight or so of things feeling a bit special.

I had to look up Christmas pudding. Looks delicious.

I do like the trees. They add a nice feel, and are fun to decorate for kids and adults alike. However, the cats always tipped it, and then Ares came along and he would have climbed it. I've thought about putting one on the outside porch, where cats aren't usually, but it probably won't be a reality this year.

I like the lights, too. We put up string lights at Diwali(diyas are more traditional, but the cats will eat the ghee or oil out of them) and leave them up through the Christmas season, and take them down a week or so after Imbolc. Honor three traditions in one go that way...

 

[exchemist]

I had to look up Christmas pudding. Looks delicious.

I do like the trees. They add a nice feel, and are fun to decorate for kids and adults alike. However, the cats always tipped it, and then Ares came along and he would have climbed it. I've thought about putting one on the outside porch, where cats aren't usually, but it probably won't be a reality this year.

I like the lights, too. We put up string lights at Diwali(diyas are more traditional, but the cats will eat the ghee or oil out of them) and leave them up through the Christmas season, and take them down a week or so after Imbolc. Honor three traditions in one go that way...

I make my own Christmas puddings and people seem to like them. I once posted the recipe on the forum, in a thread that goes into the traditions a bit as well, here: Today is Stir Up Sunday

I don't know how well this kind of thing travels the Atlantic. Coming from an Old World country, where there is over a thousand years of history all around you in the buildings and traditions, it seems worth keeping such things going, to hand to the next generation. But people in the New World sometimes see things differently.

 

[JustGeorge]

I make my own Christmas puddings and people seem to like them. I once posted the recipe on the forum, in a thread that goes into the traditions a bit as well, here: Today is Stir Up Sunday

I don't know how well this kind of thing travels the Atlantic. Coming from an Old World country, where there is over a thousand years of history all around you in the buildings and traditions, it seems worth keeping such things going, to hand to the next generation. But people in the New World sometimes see things differently.

Looks delicious! And like it takes some dedication to make.

As to how it traveled, I suspect this is where the 'fruitcake' tradition comes from, though its dying out fast. Our 'fruitcakes' are nothing like this, though; just factory made and very hard. Most find them disagreeable, and wonder why they're given out at all. I guess if this is their distant cousin(which I suspect it is), its probably where the tradition comes from. I don't think I've ever met anyone, young or old, that actually hand made them(or admitted to how to at all).

I sometimes wonder what it would be like to live in an area full of history such as that. You'll find nothing older(building wise) than maybe 150 years in this area. I feel like the place is devoid of 'roots'. Perhaps that's why holidays feel so commercial over here for so many. Not to say no one has any traditions. It just seems they're not as widespread or deeply ingrained in us, for the most part.

 

[exchemist]

Looks delicious! And like it takes some dedication to make.

As to how it traveled, I suspect this is where the 'fruitcake' tradition comes from, though its dying out fast. Our 'fruitcakes' are nothing like this, though; just factory made and very hard. Most find them disagreeable, and wonder why they're given out at all. I guess if this is their distant cousin(which I suspect it is), its probably where the tradition comes from. I don't think I've ever met anyone, young or old, that actually hand made them(or admitted to how to at all).

I sometimes wonder what it would be like to live in an area full of history such as that. You'll find nothing older(building wise) than maybe 150 years in this area. I feel like the place is devoid of 'roots'. Perhaps that's why holidays feel so commercial over here for so many. Not to say no one has any traditions. It just seems they're not as widespread or deeply ingrained in us, for the most part.

It's not hard to make, just takes some time to get the ingredients and mix them, and then steaming for 8hrs needs a bit of attention from time to time. Not a huge imposition once a year, especially when you are retired as I am. The first time I made them was in my 30s, when I spent a Christmas out in Dubai instead of coming home.

On the history thing I never gave it a thought when I was young, but now I take some pleasure in things have gone on for a long time - and will long outlive me.

 

[JustGeorge]

It's not hard to make, just takes some time to get the ingredients and mix them, and then steaming for 8hrs needs a bit of attention from time to time. Not a huge imposition once a year, especially when you are retired as I am. The first time I made them was in my 30s, when I spent a Christmas out in Dubai instead of coming home.

On the history thing I never gave it a thought when I was young, but now I take some pleasure in things have gone on for a long time - and will long outlive me.

Its something I'd like to give a shot, maybe when the kids demand less attention. Though I'll have to hunt down vegetarian suet and probably make my own candied peel. Its not sold in these areas.

As someone living in a place that lacks history, I think its awesome to hear that some places still have it. I sometimes wonder what tales this place might have had; if there were stories about the spirit or the river, or other things held sacred. It feels so disconnected, and I wonder if that's the root of some of our(the country's) problems... I could be off totally, but just something I ponder on.

 

[wellwisher]

Halloween is the one time of the year where even LBGBTQ costumes are acceptable to all. One can even get rewarded with candy treats for best costume. Halloween is the time of the year where one can become their alter ego, to live another life and fool others.

Since November 1st is All Saints Day, which honors the Saints in Heaven, Hallo's Eve honors those who are in purgatory, which is the half way house, where the dead wait until they are drafted into heaven. They are treated with a day of life, where the spirits of the dead awaken and walk among us. It is a happy time, enjoyed by children of all ages, who see that even the ugly and scary are not all bad, but are rewarded each year with a day of life and sweets.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Halloween is the one time of the year where even LBGBTQ costumes are acceptable to all.

I remember my older brother dressing up as a girl for Halloween. That was back in the early 60s.