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Is God involved in the Coronavirus?

idea

Question Everything
In do not have a message. I am just confused. :confused:

I'm really not meaning to be offensive here, but as someone who has recently changed beliefs (a very painful thing to go through, to be sure),
When more righteous church-going (older-generation) traditional people die than the newer godless generation, how will you interpret this?
When atheist scientists produce a vaccine and once again save us all, how will you interpret this?

At some point reality needs to trump wishful thinking. The reality is, solutions do not come through prayer...

Hopefully we can all feel more empathetic to those living in other less-developed disease ridden parts of the world, and this will provide great advancements to everyone by the end of it.

What would it take for you to change your beliefs?

My beliefs changed after Mormon priesthood molested my children... pretty extreme... and now I cannot understand how I ever bought into that patriarchal BS... wishful thinking I guess, that God actually existed and talked with people... that men would protect rather than abuse .... hopefully it is not quite so extreme for others to change their viewpoints, and join efforts that actually produce results.

stay quarantined, stop the spread of it, and take the time-off to read and relax... Hope everyone enjoys their quiet time.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
This guy does not believe in God but he believes everything he hears on the news and he listens to it constantly at work, and then he broadcasts it to everyone, as if we want to hear it. I consider that rather selfish because some of us do not want to hear it. I do not need or want a stock market report from him. :( :mad:

My dad said that if you don't believe in religion, you don't suddenly not become superstitious. In particular, many secular people worship the news, fear, and the state.

My mom is a worrywort, and reads aloud reports about Coronavirus, and puts herself into a frenzy. She does the same thing during hurricane season and 9/10 it turns out to be overblown. In fact, it seems to be worse only when you have a strong reason for believing it's bad, like a kid who keeps coughing around you, finally making you tired and sweaty.

Most people die of complication from disease, not disease itself. Such flu plus pneumonia, flu plus diabetes, flu plus extra dehydration, flu plus tainted water plus dehydration.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I do not keep up on the news but no doubt Trump is responsible for how this situation was handled in the United States. I only meant that Trump was not responsible for what happened in other countries before the virus got over here..

Do you think that millions of people may die in this country because of his incompetence?

I tend to think things happen for a reason so maybe this happened so he would not get reelected.

Trump has actually declared a state of emergency, closed most international travel, and issued quarantines. He is also signing into law measures to test people who think they might have it. This is all good policy.

On the other hand, liberals in this country have basically created a climate of paranoia. They have shut down many social events especially school, so the kids for 24 hours a day are stuck coughing around their parents, instead of properly spreading to only one host, their teacher. This is how to incubate disease not quarantine it.

Fear is what spreads disease, fear and its ability to spread through rumor and superstition. At a restaurant yesterday, nobody was sick. Why? Because positive energy subdues panic.

Meanwhile, liberals are determined to undermine business, screw with recreation (the one thing that would take people's minds off sickness), and eventually tell everyone healthy that they are privileged and received special treatment. Though I think this is a media event designed to discredit him, because impeachment largely failed.

Trailblazer, you're like a straw dog that Taoists talk about, praised one day and burned the next. Your other post was great but this is way off base.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I am sorry this post is so long, but I have been holding this in all week, and I wonder why nobody is talking about it, as if it is not even happening. Do people have their heads in the sand or do they simply think that by not talking about it they can pretend it is not happening? Or if they do talk about it they laugh and joke about it, as if it is no big deal. What is wrong with people that they are blind to what is happening? I have my own ideas but I just wonder what other people on RF think.

My academic background is psychology so I always analyze people and how they think and behave. But since I also have a religion and believe in God, I also wonder how God might be involved in anything that happens in the world, especially something like this which is unprecedented in modern history.

Why did this epidemic have to happen? Is God involved? I believe that God has His Hand in everything in the sense that everything that happens is within God’s Will, so if God had not willed it to happen, it would not have happened.

So what are the implications if God is involved? Is God going to punish humanity for their misdeeds? What did humanity do to deserve this? Imo, we cannot fall back in the sinful humanity because Adam and Eve ate the apple story again; that is old hat and I do not even believe in original sin, but I digress because I want to talk about what is possibly going on now, not what happened in the past. Why would God will this for humanity? Are we all guilty, not because of original sin, but because of something else? If only some people are guilty, a lot of innocent people are going to get caught in the crossfire. Even if they do not contract the virus or have a loved one who contracts it, the effect upon the economy affects everyone, especially older people who have saved for retirement all their lives. But I digress again, and I do not want to talk about the state of the economy because it will only make me angry.

Things like this do not happen for no reason, and since God is ultimately in charge of everything, God has to be behind it in some way. But even if God is behind it that does not mean that humanity “collectively” did not deserve this, because I believe that God is just and loving.

Some people blame President Trump for all of this, get real. :rolleyes: Trump did not cause this, and even if he did not manage it that well, Trump does not have that much power – but God does. The buck stops with God, Imo, so now all you atheists can pile on, and I will agree with you. ;).

So, back to the subject, why did this have to happen? Of course we will never know but we can conjecture about it. I have my own opinions and I think it is because humanity had to wake up and realize who is ultimately in charge – God. But it is more than that since most people already know that God is in charge. In my opinion, humanity has to eventually wake up and realize that we are all one people and the way we are living is not working for all of humanity. Ultimately, we need to come together and work together for the sake of all of humanity.

Reflections on the Coronavirus and the Oneness of Humanity

Sadly, what I see is that most people are basically selfish and materialistic. However, all humans also have a noble spiritual nature so they have the capacity to sacrifice for the sake of others, and we see that in these times of crisis. Not everyone is going to care about other people though; some people are going to be worried if they will be able to get toilet paper. To me it is Unbelievable that people would worry about such a petty thing when the world is crumbling all around them. Oh no, the Coronavirus is not the only world crisis, we have been in “crisis mode” for a very long time. Does anybody care about a solution?

I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone’s beliefs, but I do not believe Jesus is coming back to fix the mess the world is in; fixing this mess is the job for humans working together. And how much of this crisis can be attributed to the Christians who are “waiting for Jesus” and assuming He is going to come eventually, He just got hung up at the airport. :oops: But that is the power beliefs hold, people can believe anything. I think what we need to ask ourselves is how rational these beliefs are, and even more importantly, how are these beliefs going to help anyone? Clearly, Jesus is not here and there is no reason to believe He is coming because He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world (John 17:4, John 17:11).

It was not the purpose of this post to lay blame upon anyone, but I cannot help but think that holding the belief that Jesus is coming to rescue humanity plays a part in how people think and behave. Why worry about doing anything if Jesus is coming soon? Maybe I am reading too much into this because my academic background is psychology, or maybe I see something others do not see, I don’t know. I just know it bothers me tremendously, because it is selfish and lazy to expect Jesus or God to “fix” what humanity is responsible for and what humanity is fully capable of fixing.

According to my beliefs humans are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in so our sins will not go unpunished, because that is in accordance with God’s justice. However, the past is gone and now we need to live in the present and work towards the future. God will not abandon us to our fate. If we do His Will, God will be with us every step of the way as we try to apply His Remedy to the problems the world faces.

“God, the Vigilant, the Just, the Loving, the All-Wise Ordainer, can, in this supreme Dispensation, neither allow the sins of an unregenerate humanity, whether of omission or of commission, to go unpunished, nor will He be willing to abandon His children to their fate, and refuse them that culminating and blissful stage in their long, their slow and painful evolution throughout the ages, which is at once their inalienable right and their true destiny.” The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 4-5

This Judgment of God


From what your saying..you haven't a clue or idea how exactly God works..

It's a guarantee if God was behind the Coronavirus virus..it wouldn't be a hit and miss situation around the earth...but would definitely effect every place on earth and everyone so rapidly like a forest fire in the woods that spreads so fast so rapidly that even those that are professionals in forest fires have a very.very hard time in controlling the forest fires before it destroys thousand and thousand of acres of land.

It's evidence that you don't listen to those who are professionals... Expert physicians in the field a viruses..
But listen to those who are not professionals in the field of viruses..
such as the mainstream news media..

The mainstream news media would be better off to leave the Coronavirus virus to those who are professionals, experts in the field of viruses..
If I believe I have any of the systems that the professionals, experts physicians put out of the Coronavirus virus..I will definitely go to my doctor of physician and find out for sure...than to rely the mainstream news media which is not professionals or experts in the field of viruses..
 
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Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
From what your saying..you haven't a clue or idea how exactly God works..

It's a guarantee if God was behind the Coronavirus virus..it wouldn't be a hit and miss situation around the earth...but would definitely effect every place on earth and everyone so rapidly like a forest fire in the woods that spreads so fast so rapidly that even those that are professionals in forest fires have a very.very hard time in controlling the forest fires before it destroys thousand and thousand of acres of land.

It's evidence that you don't listen to those who are professionals... Expert physicians in the field a viruses..
But listen to those who are not professionals in the field of viruses..
such as the mainstream news media..

The mainstream news media would be better off to leave the Coronavirus virus to those who are professionals, experts in the field of viruses..
If I believe I have any of the systems that the professionals, experts physicians put out of the Coronavirus virus..I will definitely go to my doctor of physician and find out for sure...than to rely the mainstream news media which is not professionals or experts in the field of viruses..

I feel like you believe in experts, more than God.

I lost my faith in experts after I had a case of nervousness and made myself get hives, and didn't eat or drink that day, and the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with me when I knew what was wrong with me. About that point, I realized "experts" are just regular people.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I am sorry this post is so long, but I have been holding this in all week, and I wonder why nobody is talking about it, as if it is not even happening. Do people have their heads in the sand or do they simply think that by not talking about it they can pretend it is not happening? Or if they do talk about it they laugh and joke about it, as if it is no big deal. What is wrong with people that they are blind to what is happening? I have my own ideas but I just wonder what other people on RF think.

My academic background is psychology so I always analyze people and how they think and behave. But since I also have a religion and believe in God, I also wonder how God might be involved in anything that happens in the world, especially something like this which is unprecedented in modern history.

Why did this epidemic have to happen? Is God involved? I believe that God has His Hand in everything in the sense that everything that happens is within God’s Will, so if God had not willed it to happen, it would not have happened.

So what are the implications if God is involved? Is God going to punish humanity for their misdeeds? What did humanity do to deserve this? Imo, we cannot fall back in the sinful humanity because Adam and Eve ate the apple story again; that is old hat and I do not even believe in original sin, but I digress because I want to talk about what is possibly going on now, not what happened in the past. Why would God will this for humanity? Are we all guilty, not because of original sin, but because of something else? If only some people are guilty, a lot of innocent people are going to get caught in the crossfire. Even if they do not contract the virus or have a loved one who contracts it, the effect upon the economy affects everyone, especially older people who have saved for retirement all their lives. But I digress again, and I do not want to talk about the state of the economy because it will only make me angry.

Things like this do not happen for no reason, and since God is ultimately in charge of everything, God has to be behind it in some way. But even if God is behind it that does not mean that humanity “collectively” did not deserve this, because I believe that God is just and loving.

Some people blame President Trump for all of this, get real. :rolleyes: Trump did not cause this, and even if he did not manage it that well, Trump does not have that much power – but God does. The buck stops with God, Imo, so now all you atheists can pile on, and I will agree with you. ;).

So, back to the subject, why did this have to happen? Of course we will never know but we can conjecture about it. I have my own opinions and I think it is because humanity had to wake up and realize who is ultimately in charge – God. But it is more than that since most people already know that God is in charge. In my opinion, humanity has to eventually wake up and realize that we are all one people and the way we are living is not working for all of humanity. Ultimately, we need to come together and work together for the sake of all of humanity.

Reflections on the Coronavirus and the Oneness of Humanity

Sadly, what I see is that most people are basically selfish and materialistic. However, all humans also have a noble spiritual nature so they have the capacity to sacrifice for the sake of others, and we see that in these times of crisis. Not everyone is going to care about other people though; some people are going to be worried if they will be able to get toilet paper. To me it is Unbelievable that people would worry about such a petty thing when the world is crumbling all around them. Oh no, the Coronavirus is not the only world crisis, we have been in “crisis mode” for a very long time. Does anybody care about a solution?

I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone’s beliefs, but I do not believe Jesus is coming back to fix the mess the world is in; fixing this mess is the job for humans working together. And how much of this crisis can be attributed to the Christians who are “waiting for Jesus” and assuming He is going to come eventually, He just got hung up at the airport. :oops: But that is the power beliefs hold, people can believe anything. I think what we need to ask ourselves is how rational these beliefs are, and even more importantly, how are these beliefs going to help anyone? Clearly, Jesus is not here and there is no reason to believe He is coming because He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world (John 17:4, John 17:11).

It was not the purpose of this post to lay blame upon anyone, but I cannot help but think that holding the belief that Jesus is coming to rescue humanity plays a part in how people think and behave. Why worry about doing anything if Jesus is coming soon? Maybe I am reading too much into this because my academic background is psychology, or maybe I see something others do not see, I don’t know. I just know it bothers me tremendously, because it is selfish and lazy to expect Jesus or God to “fix” what humanity is responsible for and what humanity is fully capable of fixing.

According to my beliefs humans are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in so our sins will not go unpunished, because that is in accordance with God’s justice. However, the past is gone and now we need to live in the present and work towards the future. God will not abandon us to our fate. If we do His Will, God will be with us every step of the way as we try to apply His Remedy to the problems the world faces.

“God, the Vigilant, the Just, the Loving, the All-Wise Ordainer, can, in this supreme Dispensation, neither allow the sins of an unregenerate humanity, whether of omission or of commission, to go unpunished, nor will He be willing to abandon His children to their fate, and refuse them that culminating and blissful stage in their long, their slow and painful evolution throughout the ages, which is at once their inalienable right and their true destiny.” The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 4-5

This Judgment of God


How's about we let the professionals experts physicians in the field are viruses speak about the Coronavirus Virus

I hope I can do this..that's it's not in anyway of the rules of RF...
Click on the link below..

Dr. Drew: Media needs to shut up over coronavirus hysteria
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
I feel like you believe in experts, more than God.

I lost my faith in experts after I had a case of nervousness and made myself get hives, and didn't eat or drink that day, and the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with me when I knew what was wrong with me. About that point, I realized "experts" are just regular people.

If you had any knowledge what the Bible actually does say..
When God does something everyone around the whole earth will definitely know about it..

Why do you suppose even the Lord Jesus Christ referred to people as seeing doctor physician.when they are sick..

Matthew 9:12---"But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick"

Mark 2:17--"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"

Now how is it that even the Lord Jesus Christ referred to people as in seeing a physician.

What about disciple Luke himself being a Physician himself...
Colossians 4:14---"Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you"

You probably didn't know that either.
But if you would read/study the Bible.
You would have known that.
That even disciple Luke being a Physician.
himself.
 
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WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
I am sorry this post is so long, but I have been holding this in all week, and I wonder why nobody is talking about it, as if it is not even happening. Do people have their heads in the sand or do they simply think that by not talking about it they can pretend it is not happening? Or if they do talk about it they laugh and joke about it, as if it is no big deal. What is wrong with people that they are blind to what is happening? I have my own ideas but I just wonder what other people on RF think.

My academic background is psychology so I always analyze people and how they think and behave. But since I also have a religion and believe in God, I also wonder how God might be involved in anything that happens in the world, especially something like this which is unprecedented in modern history.

Why did this epidemic have to happen? Is God involved? I believe that God has His Hand in everything in the sense that everything that happens is within God’s Will, so if God had not willed it to happen, it would not have happened.

So what are the implications if God is involved? Is God going to punish humanity for their misdeeds? What did humanity do to deserve this? Imo, we cannot fall back in the sinful humanity because Adam and Eve ate the apple story again; that is old hat and I do not even believe in original sin, but I digress because I want to talk about what is possibly going on now, not what happened in the past. Why would God will this for humanity? Are we all guilty, not because of original sin, but because of something else? If only some people are guilty, a lot of innocent people are going to get caught in the crossfire. Even if they do not contract the virus or have a loved one who contracts it, the effect upon the economy affects everyone, especially older people who have saved for retirement all their lives. But I digress again, and I do not want to talk about the state of the economy because it will only make me angry.

Things like this do not happen for no reason, and since God is ultimately in charge of everything, God has to be behind it in some way. But even if God is behind it that does not mean that humanity “collectively” did not deserve this, because I believe that God is just and loving.

Some people blame President Trump for all of this, get real. :rolleyes: Trump did not cause this, and even if he did not manage it that well, Trump does not have that much power – but God does. The buck stops with God, Imo, so now all you atheists can pile on, and I will agree with you. ;).

So, back to the subject, why did this have to happen? Of course we will never know but we can conjecture about it. I have my own opinions and I think it is because humanity had to wake up and realize who is ultimately in charge – God. But it is more than that since most people already know that God is in charge. In my opinion, humanity has to eventually wake up and realize that we are all one people and the way we are living is not working for all of humanity. Ultimately, we need to come together and work together for the sake of all of humanity.

Reflections on the Coronavirus and the Oneness of Humanity

Sadly, what I see is that most people are basically selfish and materialistic. However, all humans also have a noble spiritual nature so they have the capacity to sacrifice for the sake of others, and we see that in these times of crisis. Not everyone is going to care about other people though; some people are going to be worried if they will be able to get toilet paper. To me it is Unbelievable that people would worry about such a petty thing when the world is crumbling all around them. Oh no, the Coronavirus is not the only world crisis, we have been in “crisis mode” for a very long time. Does anybody care about a solution?

I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone’s beliefs, but I do not believe Jesus is coming back to fix the mess the world is in; fixing this mess is the job for humans working together. And how much of this crisis can be attributed to the Christians who are “waiting for Jesus” and assuming He is going to come eventually, He just got hung up at the airport. :oops: But that is the power beliefs hold, people can believe anything. I think what we need to ask ourselves is how rational these beliefs are, and even more importantly, how are these beliefs going to help anyone? Clearly, Jesus is not here and there is no reason to believe He is coming because He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world (John 17:4, John 17:11).

It was not the purpose of this post to lay blame upon anyone, but I cannot help but think that holding the belief that Jesus is coming to rescue humanity plays a part in how people think and behave. Why worry about doing anything if Jesus is coming soon? Maybe I am reading too much into this because my academic background is psychology, or maybe I see something others do not see, I don’t know. I just know it bothers me tremendously, because it is selfish and lazy to expect Jesus or God to “fix” what humanity is responsible for and what humanity is fully capable of fixing.

According to my beliefs humans are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in so our sins will not go unpunished, because that is in accordance with God’s justice. However, the past is gone and now we need to live in the present and work towards the future. God will not abandon us to our fate. If we do His Will, God will be with us every step of the way as we try to apply His Remedy to the problems the world faces.

“God, the Vigilant, the Just, the Loving, the All-Wise Ordainer, can, in this supreme Dispensation, neither allow the sins of an unregenerate humanity, whether of omission or of commission, to go unpunished, nor will He be willing to abandon His children to their fate, and refuse them that culminating and blissful stage in their long, their slow and painful evolution throughout the ages, which is at once their inalienable right and their true destiny.” The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 4-5

This Judgment of God

Perhaps it has something to do with all the "chemtrails" ?
You know, the spraying of the ionosphere with poisonous gases by high altitude jets,
the world over, night and day, 24 hours a day, for the last 20+ years ????

WAKE UP !!
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you think that millions of people may die in this country because of his incompetence?

Millions may die in America, but it is also possible that the death total will be in the hundreds of thousands. The present estimate is lower, but we just don't know what is coming.

We don't know the infectivity rate (the fraction of the population that will acquire the disease) nor the mortality rates (there are two - the fraction of the total population who die, and the fraction of those with the illness who die) for this illness.

We also don't know about the mutation rate, or whether mutant strains will be more or less contagious and lethal.

People that are telling you that this is overblown are guessing. Some of them may object to my comment above. This is a time to be cautious. None of us is going to escape exposure to this pathogen, but if we are to get the illness, we want it to be at a time when the medical system is not overwhelmed, which hopefully is throughout the entire unfolding of this matter.

The way Trump's incompetence (and the conservative media's downplaying of the matter) will hurt America is that it will have a much larger early spike than it needed to, and that group will get less medical attention. If you might have survived the illness with a hospital stay, supplemental oxygen or intubation and mechanical ventilation, intravenous nutrition or fluids, etc., but can't get a hospital bed, you may become a fatality.

This is the argument for self-quarantining, for the benefit of society as a whole and for personal benefit. My wife and I began last Friday. We will not be attending any public events for a season (maybe literally), and will only socialize with other people taking the same precautions. Our friends that are not sequestering themselves from crowds are people we won't be seeing for awhile.

I tend to think things happen for a reason so maybe this happened so he would not get reelected.

I don't think Trump supporters will view whatever happens as anything other than an example of great leadership, and that all negativity will be due to the Democrats. It's how these people think. We've seen it on this thread, and I saw it yesterday on another.

I read this yesterday on another RF thread:

"The appropriate travel restrictions and self quarantine measures have been put in place in order to keep the Wuhan Chinese derived Corona-virus from rapidly spreading among us Americans. Other than the typical liberal fake media fear-mongering, please let us be very confident Team Trump has this situation totally control."

This guy will vote for Trump no matter what happens. They're not evidence-based thinkers. They trust and believe in the man by faith.

But doesn't America really deserve to do worse under Trump? If there wasn't a price to be paid for having Trump as president, there'd be no argument against him. The argument is that if you elect a low-information, immoral, selfish, narcissistic troglodyte more concerned with suppressing information to defend the stock market than disseminating useful information to people and taking aggressive action early, there are going to be problems.

If we had testing, would everyone get tested, and what if they contracted it after they tested negative?

Testing isn't helpful for the individual patient unless effective specific therapy is available that requires knowing whether one is dealing with coronavirus or not in a particular case. It's helpful for epidemiological purposes to track the progression of the disease. I don't see where more tests will help anybody avoid or survive infection.

You may have noticed that I avoided the god issue. That idea adds nothing to the proper way to deal with this matter, especially if we're talking about a god that is happy to send or allow viruses to beset mankind. What use is such an idea? We've got the viruses themselves to do that.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
It is certainly a GENERAL judgment of the God described in the bible to allow the present nature of life forms.
One scriptural evidence of that is the nature of animals is already scheduled to be changed dramatically.
They will no longer harm humans -humans will no longer harm or consume them -and they will not consume each other.

Part of creating what we will be in the future is allowing us to strive against the present nature of things.
Not only are we formed by opposite forces, but we will see the need for God's government -which was consistently rejected by the inexperienced.
He did not set about creating happy, content humans -but gods -the children of God -who will be given incorruptible and powerful bodies as they begin to inhabit the universe.
We will all eventually be happy -and all ill effects of this experience nullified -but this experience will allow for that -and for us to not mess it up.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
I am sorry this post is so long, but I have been holding this in all week, and I wonder why nobody is talking about it, as if it is not even happening. Do people have their heads in the sand or do they simply think that by not talking about it they can pretend it is not happening? Or if they do talk about it they laugh and joke about it, as if it is no big deal. What is wrong with people that they are blind to what is happening? I have my own ideas but I just wonder what other people on RF think.

My academic background is psychology so I always analyze people and how they think and behave. But since I also have a religion and believe in God, I also wonder how God might be involved in anything that happens in the world, especially something like this which is unprecedented in modern history.

Why did this epidemic have to happen? Is God involved? I believe that God has His Hand in everything in the sense that everything that happens is within God’s Will, so if God had not willed it to happen, it would not have happened.

So what are the implications if God is involved? Is God going to punish humanity for their misdeeds? What did humanity do to deserve this? Imo, we cannot fall back in the sinful humanity because Adam and Eve ate the apple story again; that is old hat and I do not even believe in original sin, but I digress because I want to talk about what is possibly going on now, not what happened in the past. Why would God will this for humanity? Are we all guilty, not because of original sin, but because of something else? If only some people are guilty, a lot of innocent people are going to get caught in the crossfire. Even if they do not contract the virus or have a loved one who contracts it, the effect upon the economy affects everyone, especially older people who have saved for retirement all their lives. But I digress again, and I do not want to talk about the state of the economy because it will only make me angry.

Things like this do not happen for no reason, and since God is ultimately in charge of everything, God has to be behind it in some way. But even if God is behind it that does not mean that humanity “collectively” did not deserve this, because I believe that God is just and loving.

Some people blame President Trump for all of this, get real. :rolleyes: Trump did not cause this, and even if he did not manage it that well, Trump does not have that much power – but God does. The buck stops with God, Imo, so now all you atheists can pile on, and I will agree with you. ;).

So, back to the subject, why did this have to happen? Of course we will never know but we can conjecture about it. I have my own opinions and I think it is because humanity had to wake up and realize who is ultimately in charge – God. But it is more than that since most people already know that God is in charge. In my opinion, humanity has to eventually wake up and realize that we are all one people and the way we are living is not working for all of humanity. Ultimately, we need to come together and work together for the sake of all of humanity.

Reflections on the Coronavirus and the Oneness of Humanity

Sadly, what I see is that most people are basically selfish and materialistic. However, all humans also have a noble spiritual nature so they have the capacity to sacrifice for the sake of others, and we see that in these times of crisis. Not everyone is going to care about other people though; some people are going to be worried if they will be able to get toilet paper. To me it is Unbelievable that people would worry about such a petty thing when the world is crumbling all around them. Oh no, the Coronavirus is not the only world crisis, we have been in “crisis mode” for a very long time. Does anybody care about a solution?

I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone’s beliefs, but I do not believe Jesus is coming back to fix the mess the world is in; fixing this mess is the job for humans working together. And how much of this crisis can be attributed to the Christians who are “waiting for Jesus” and assuming He is going to come eventually, He just got hung up at the airport. :oops: But that is the power beliefs hold, people can believe anything. I think what we need to ask ourselves is how rational these beliefs are, and even more importantly, how are these beliefs going to help anyone? Clearly, Jesus is not here and there is no reason to believe He is coming because He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world (John 17:4, John 17:11).

It was not the purpose of this post to lay blame upon anyone, but I cannot help but think that holding the belief that Jesus is coming to rescue humanity plays a part in how people think and behave. Why worry about doing anything if Jesus is coming soon? Maybe I am reading too much into this because my academic background is psychology, or maybe I see something others do not see, I don’t know. I just know it bothers me tremendously, because it is selfish and lazy to expect Jesus or God to “fix” what humanity is responsible for and what humanity is fully capable of fixing.

According to my beliefs humans are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in so our sins will not go unpunished, because that is in accordance with God’s justice. However, the past is gone and now we need to live in the present and work towards the future. God will not abandon us to our fate. If we do His Will, God will be with us every step of the way as we try to apply His Remedy to the problems the world faces.

“God, the Vigilant, the Just, the Loving, the All-Wise Ordainer, can, in this supreme Dispensation, neither allow the sins of an unregenerate humanity, whether of omission or of commission, to go unpunished, nor will He be willing to abandon His children to their fate, and refuse them that culminating and blissful stage in their long, their slow and painful evolution throughout the ages, which is at once their inalienable right and their true destiny.” The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 4-5

This Judgment of God
One God is part of everything as originator and sustainer of our Cosmos. That is all. Is One God consciously involved in virus deal? No.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It could be as a result of sins of humanity:


"It is certainly the case that sins are a potent cause of physical ailments. If humankind were free from the defilements of sin and waywardness, and lived according to a natural, inborn equilibrium, without following wherever their passions led, it is undeniable that diseases would no longer take the ascendant, nor diversify with such intensity.
But man hath perversely continued to serve his lustful appetites, and he would not content himself with simple foods. Rather, he prepared for himself food that was compounded of many ingredients, of substances differing one from the other. With this, and with the perpetrating of vile and ignoble acts, his attention was engrossed, and he abandoned the temperance and moderation of a natural way of life. The result was the engendering of diseases both violent and diverse."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 152-156
This is not about eating foods.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
You can blame the media for making such a big deal about it frightening everybody and bringing down the economy.

There was one reported case in my county so now they have closed all the schools and libraries till further notice.
What are we to believe?
It's not the media. The problem is that this disease increases exponentially. It is believed that many of us will get the disease eventually, but we got to keep our distance so that in the near future the number of severe cases won't overwhelm our health system. Also, not many are being tested for this disease in this country, so the number of those actually affected by this virus are higher than reported.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
If you had any knowledge what the Bible actually does say..
When God does something everyone around the whole earth will definitely know about it..

Why do you suppose even the Lord Jesus Christ referred to people as seeing doctor physician.when they are sick..

Matthew 9:12---"But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick"

Mark 2:17--"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"

Now how is it that even the Lord Jesus Christ referred to people as in seeing a physician.

What about disciple Luke himself being a Physician himself...
Colossians 4:14---"Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you"

You probably didn't know that either.
But if you would read/study the Bible.
You would have known that.
That even disciple Luke being a Physician.
himself.

I know about Luke being a physician.

And I know about Jesus saying "Those who are well have no need of a healer" but he was talking about sin.

The thing is, today's "physicians" are pretty far from the "healers" that Jesus wanted. The medical symbol is often mistakenly assumed to be the Caduceus rather than the Staff of Asclepius. The medical symbol (Staff of Asclepius) is a serpent coiled around a staff. It's an Egyptian symbol I believe, but it also recalls to us, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life." God, and not people in lab coats, are ultimately responsible for our health.

Caduceus vs Staff of Asclepius

The Caduceus on the other hand is two snakes, and is a symbol of merchants. This is a hint. Such physicians, such "experts" are no friend to us, though. They do their work for profit and not because of faith (nor is state-run medicine a solution).
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
For someone who believes god made everything in creation then it must follow that god created the coronavirus. However if seems to me they only believe in selective creation, just the good bits and not the bad bits.

For those who believe in evolution, then no problem, viruses evolve, it seems that carvid 19:has already evolved while loose in humanity, the new strain being the more aggressive.
Since Bahais believe in evolution, we believe that viruses evolve.
However, that does not get God off the hot seat because God is responsible for evolution, and everything that He allowed to evolve, as well as everything else He allows to happen.

You atheists do not know how good you have it, or maybe you do. ;)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm really not meaning to be offensive here, but as someone who has recently changed beliefs (a very painful thing to go through, to be sure),
When more righteous church-going (older-generation) traditional people die than the newer godless generation, how will you interpret this?
When atheist scientists produce a vaccine and once again save us all, how will you interpret this?

At some point reality needs to trump wishful thinking. The reality is, solutions do not come through prayer...

Hopefully we can all feel more empathetic to those living in other less-developed disease ridden parts of the world, and this will provide great advancements to everyone by the end of it.

What would it take for you to change your beliefs?

My beliefs changed after Mormon priesthood molested my children... pretty extreme... and now I cannot understand how I ever bought into that patriarchal BS... wishful thinking I guess, that God actually existed and talked with people... that men would protect rather than abuse .... hopefully it is not quite so extreme for others to change their viewpoints, and join efforts that actually produce results.

stay quarantined, stop the spread of it, and take the time-off to read and relax... Hope everyone enjoys their quiet time.
Thanks for your advice and consideration... I am sorry for what happened to you as a believer. I cannot UN-believe in God just because I want to, not anymore than an atheist can believe in God because they want to. I believe God exists, of that I have no doubt, and there are certain implications I cannot ignore. I cannot just pretend I do not believe that God exists, not anymore than an atheist can pretend to believe that God exists.

If my religion did not make sense to me and have evidence to support it, I would not be a believer. My religion teaches the harmony of science and religion and that humanity needs both in order to live on this earth and make any progress.

I agree that the solutions do not come through prayer, they come through science. I do not believe that God caused this outbreak, but I believe God allowed it and I believe that God is expecting scientists to find a vaccine, and knows they will.

What I was confused about is who is responsible for this virus, but I am starting to get less confused thanks to the good people of this forum.

I am not a bit worried about my physical health or that I will contract the virus, but I do worry about its effect upon the economy and how that could impact everyone on earth. It is because people are so worried about themselves and their physical body that they panic and cause these economic disasters. I consider that wholly selfish but sadly, most people are selfish so it is unavoidable.

Maybe this will sound insensitive, but since I do not believe that the physical body is who we really are, and I do not believe this life is the only life we have or the most important life, I do not see death as a big deal. In fact, I believe people who die and are thereby released from this world, which is a storehouse of suffering, are better off.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Trump has actually declared a state of emergency, closed most international travel, and issued quarantines. He is also signing into law measures to test people who think they might have it. This is all good policy.

On the other hand, liberals in this country have basically created a climate of paranoia. They have shut down many social events especially school, so the kids for 24 hours a day are stuck coughing around their parents, instead of properly spreading to only one host, their teacher. This is how to incubate disease not quarantine it.

Fear is what spreads disease, fear and its ability to spread through rumor and superstition. At a restaurant yesterday, nobody was sick. Why? Because positive energy subdues panic.

Meanwhile, liberals are determined to undermine business, screw with recreation (the one thing that would take people's minds off sickness), and eventually tell everyone healthy that they are privileged and received special treatment. Though I think this is a media event designed to discredit him, because impeachment largely failed.

Trailblazer, you're like a straw dog that Taoists talk about, praised one day and burned the next. Your other post was great but this is way off base.
What do you think is off base. I agree with what you said about Trump and the liberals.
I agree that fear is what spreads disease, fear and its ability to spread through rumor and superstition.
I agree that this country has basically created a climate of paranoia by shutting everything down.
I do not know how necessary this is, because I have not been keeping up on the news, so I do not know the extent of the disease or the real threat it poses..
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Since Bahais believe in evolution, we believe that viruses evolve.
However, that does not get God off the hot seat because God is responsible for evolution, and everything that He allowed to evolve, as well as everything else He allows to happen.

You atheists do not know how good you have it, or maybe you do. ;)

The rules are set. It is up to us if we play by the rules. This game of life is a gift, thus we get to choose the gift or reject it, that is this life, it is perfect in design and purpose.

We can not see the bigger picture, if we could, then God would only have our Love and Praise, the blame is fully upon our own shoulders.

Say hi to your other half for me.

Regards Tony
 
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