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Is God involved in the Coronavirus?

ClimbingTheLadder

Up and Down again
Thanks. I tend to think you are right. Even if it is within God's Will, that does not mean it is a "lesson."

I will also add that when God wipes out a people or civilization (according to the Abrahamic tradition) it is very direct and deliberate, plus there tend to always be an explicit warning before such a thing.

Corona seems more of a case of mankind messing up, not being able to cope with a basic thing even in this century, rather than anything directly related to God.

Though I will add, anything that involves tragedy and chaos will naturally have a poetic element that will cause us to reflect on what is fundamentally important in life (given the imminence of death emphasized in most religions and irreligions), this is a given.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
At the same time I see we can not say as to what God really wants us to say.

There are many talks by Abdul'baha that say all things are a result from our mind and our actions towards each other, that a balance is lost in disunity.

How that feeds this material world, we are yet to know.

Regards Tony

I believe there is a great deal Baha’is can be contributing to this particular social discourse and even consider ourselves contributing to socioeconomic development.

1/ Baha’i extol learning, knowledge and science as well as independent investigation of reality. Let’s learn about coronavirus from trusted reputable sources so we are part of a well informed community taking the best actions and encouraging and supporting our neighbours and friends to do the same.

2/ Baha’is should seek advice from competent physicians in regards their health.

3/ Baha’is should obey their government and avoid involvement in partisan politics. Let’s support the positive measure ms being put forward by our governments, especially those that are based on guidance from the WHO.

4/ Baha’is are exhorted towards moderation and cleanliness. We should be moderate in a speech, take particular care in regards cleanliness and recommendations about hand washing etc

5/ Baha’is are exhorted to service and sacrifice. We could look for opportunities to assist our communities.

The list could go on.:D
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
No, I do not believe that the coronavirus was a judgment of God. I believe it was a wake-up call.

I said: "I have my own opinions and I think it is because humanity had to wake up and realize who is ultimately in charge – God. But it is more than that since most people already know that God is in charge. In my opinion, humanity has to eventually wake up and realize that we are all one people and the way we are living is not working for all of humanity. Ultimately, we need to come together and work together for the sake of all of humanity."
I agree humanity needs to work together, however in spite of believing in God, I don't see why humanity needs to see God as being in charge. I think that humanity can work together better when it accepts a reasonable degree of diverstiy of opinion, amongst which is whether or not God/s exist. Besides if this is a wakeup call about realising God is in charge then God should demonstrate that by protecting those who are realising God is in charge from the disease.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I will also add that when God wipes out a people or civilization (according to the Abrahamic tradition) it is very direct and deliberate, plus there tend to always be an explicit warning before such a thing.
That is true, God always gives us a warning, sometimes lots of warnings. ;)
Corona seems more of a case of mankind messing up, not being able to cope with a basic thing even in this century, rather than anything directly related to God.
How do you think it was mismanaged by humans? I have not been following the news.
Though I will add, anything that involves tragedy and chaos will naturally have a poetic element that will cause us to reflect on what is fundamentally important in life (given the imminence of death emphasized in most religions and irreligions), this is a given.
You are right, it will cause "some people" to reflect, but other people will just go running to the stores to buy all the toilet paper and soup that is left on the shelves. :eek: That is what is fundamentally important to them, their material existence.

I live in a U.S. state that was the first to be affected. It is amazing how different people react. Of course I cannot see inside their minds, but behavior is telling. How people can laugh and joke about something this serious is beyond me. It is "business as usual" for them, until it directly affects them in some negative way.

If I say any more I will probably be sorry for it, but somehow I think you get the point. :(
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I agree humanity needs to work together, however in spite of believing in God, I don't see why humanity needs to see God as being in charge. I think that humanity can work together better when it accepts a reasonable degree of diverstiy of opinion, amongst which is whether or not God/s exist. Besides if this is a wakeup call about realising God is in charge then God should demonstrate that by protecting those who are realising God is in charge from the disease.
In agree that humanity does not need to see God as being in charge in order to work together. That would mean only the Abrahamic religions would be able to work together, and I do not think that is true at all. I think that atheists and agnostics and people of all the different religions can work alongside each other, and I do not think there should be any walls between people at all. To me, oneness of humanity means everyone working together.

If it is a wake-up call for people to realize God is in charge, the people who need the alarm clocks are the believers who don't realize that even though it is part of their belief system. ;)
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I am sorry this post is so long, but I have been holding this in all week, and I wonder why nobody is talking about it, as if it is not even happening. Do people have their heads in the sand or do they simply think that by not talking about it they can pretend it is not happening? Or if they do talk about it they laugh and joke about it, as if it is no big deal. What is wrong with people that they are blind to what is happening? I have my own ideas but I just wonder what other people on RF think.

My academic background is psychology so I always analyze people and how they think and behave. But since I also have a religion and believe in God, I also wonder how God might be involved in anything that happens in the world, especially something like this which is unprecedented in modern history.

Why did this epidemic have to happen? Is God involved? I believe that God has His Hand in everything in the sense that everything that happens is within God’s Will, so if God had not willed it to happen, it would not have happened.

So what are the implications if God is involved? Is God going to punish humanity for their misdeeds? What did humanity do to deserve this? Imo, we cannot fall back in the sinful humanity because Adam and Eve ate the apple story again; that is old hat and I do not even believe in original sin, but I digress because I want to talk about what is possibly going on now, not what happened in the past. Why would God will this for humanity? Are we all guilty, not because of original sin, but because of something else? If only some people are guilty, a lot of innocent people are going to get caught in the crossfire. Even if they do not contract the virus or have a loved one who contracts it, the effect upon the economy affects everyone, especially older people who have saved for retirement all their lives. But I digress again, and I do not want to talk about the state of the economy because it will only make me angry.

Things like this do not happen for no reason, and since God is ultimately in charge of everything, God has to be behind it in some way. But even if God is behind it that does not mean that humanity “collectively” did not deserve this, because I believe that God is just and loving.

Some people blame President Trump for all of this, get real. :rolleyes: Trump did not cause this, and even if he did not manage it that well, Trump does not have that much power – but God does. The buck stops with God, Imo, so now all you atheists can pile on, and I will agree with you. ;).

So, back to the subject, why did this have to happen? Of course we will never know but we can conjecture about it. I have my own opinions and I think it is because humanity had to wake up and realize who is ultimately in charge – God. But it is more than that since most people already know that God is in charge. In my opinion, humanity has to eventually wake up and realize that we are all one people and the way we are living is not working for all of humanity. Ultimately, we need to come together and work together for the sake of all of humanity.

Reflections on the Coronavirus and the Oneness of Humanity

Sadly, what I see is that most people are basically selfish and materialistic. However, all humans also have a noble spiritual nature so they have the capacity to sacrifice for the sake of others, and we see that in these times of crisis. Not everyone is going to care about other people though; some people are going to be worried if they will be able to get toilet paper. To me it is Unbelievable that people would worry about such a petty thing when the world is crumbling all around them. Oh no, the Coronavirus is not the only world crisis, we have been in “crisis mode” for a very long time. Does anybody care about a solution?

I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone’s beliefs, but I do not believe Jesus is coming back to fix the mess the world is in; fixing this mess is the job for humans working together. And how much of this crisis can be attributed to the Christians who are “waiting for Jesus” and assuming He is going to come eventually, He just got hung up at the airport. :oops: But that is the power beliefs hold, people can believe anything. I think what we need to ask ourselves is how rational these beliefs are, and even more importantly, how are these beliefs going to help anyone? Clearly, Jesus is not here and there is no reason to believe He is coming because He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world (John 17:4, John 17:11).

It was not the purpose of this post to lay blame upon anyone, but I cannot help but think that holding the belief that Jesus is coming to rescue humanity plays a part in how people think and behave. Why worry about doing anything if Jesus is coming soon? Maybe I am reading too much into this because my academic background is psychology, or maybe I see something others do not see, I don’t know. I just know it bothers me tremendously, because it is selfish and lazy to expect Jesus or God to “fix” what humanity is responsible for and what humanity is fully capable of fixing.

According to my beliefs humans are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in so our sins will not go unpunished, because that is in accordance with God’s justice. However, the past is gone and now we need to live in the present and work towards the future. God will not abandon us to our fate. If we do His Will, God will be with us every step of the way as we try to apply His Remedy to the problems the world faces.

“God, the Vigilant, the Just, the Loving, the All-Wise Ordainer, can, in this supreme Dispensation, neither allow the sins of an unregenerate humanity, whether of omission or of commission, to go unpunished, nor will He be willing to abandon His children to their fate, and refuse them that culminating and blissful stage in their long, their slow and painful evolution throughout the ages, which is at once their inalienable right and their true destiny.” The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 4-5

This Judgment of God
Do your best not to worry about things that are out of your control. It can change nothing. Worry only serves the purpose of spurring people to action; but when you can do nothing anyway. Then worry is wasted. So refuse it. Instead I suggest trusting God.

As for God causing it. He definitely allowed it. But that doesn't mean God is responsible. Unfortunately there is evil in the world that wouldn't stop at something like releasing a virus. I don't know for sure that this is how it was started. But I don't find the official narrative of bat soup or what not to be very plausible. Actually that sounds pretty weak for an origin story.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Do your best not to worry about things that are out of your control. It can change nothing. Worry only serves the purpose of spurring people to action; but when you can do nothing anyway. Then worry is wasted. So refuse it. Instead I suggest trusting God.

As for God causing it. He definitely allowed it. But that doesn't mean God is responsible. Unfortunately there is evil in the world that wouldn't stop at something like releasing a virus. I don't know for sure that this is how it was started. But I don't find the official narrative of bat soup or what not to be very plausible. Actually that sounds pretty weak for an origin story.
Why pray if you're going to worry?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Wow, people will seize on anything to promote their religion, it seems. :rolleyes:There's nothing special about this virus. It's not even that deadly, compared to, say, untreated HIV/AIDS, which has killed tens of millions of people since the start of that epidemic and that has certainly not brought humanity together. Seems like your idea of God isn't trying that hard anymore.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
I am sorry this post is so long, but I have been holding this in all week, and I wonder why nobody is talking about it, as if it is not even happening. Do people have their heads in the sand or do they simply think that by not talking about it they can pretend it is not happening? Or if they do talk about it they laugh and joke about it, as if it is no big deal. What is wrong with people that they are blind to what is happening? I have my own ideas but I just wonder what other people on RF think.

My academic background is psychology so I always analyze people and how they think and behave. But since I also have a religion and believe in God, I also wonder how God might be involved in anything that happens in the world, especially something like this which is unprecedented in modern history.

Why did this epidemic have to happen? Is God involved? I believe that God has His Hand in everything in the sense that everything that happens is within God’s Will, so if God had not willed it to happen, it would not have happened.

So what are the implications if God is involved? Is God going to punish humanity for their misdeeds? What did humanity do to deserve this? Imo, we cannot fall back in the sinful humanity because Adam and Eve ate the apple story again; that is old hat and I do not even believe in original sin, but I digress because I want to talk about what is possibly going on now, not what happened in the past. Why would God will this for humanity? Are we all guilty, not because of original sin, but because of something else? If only some people are guilty, a lot of innocent people are going to get caught in the crossfire. Even if they do not contract the virus or have a loved one who contracts it, the effect upon the economy affects everyone, especially older people who have saved for retirement all their lives. But I digress again, and I do not want to talk about the state of the economy because it will only make me angry.

Things like this do not happen for no reason, and since God is ultimately in charge of everything, God has to be behind it in some way. But even if God is behind it that does not mean that humanity “collectively” did not deserve this, because I believe that God is just and loving.

Some people blame President Trump for all of this, get real. :rolleyes: Trump did not cause this, and even if he did not manage it that well, Trump does not have that much power – but God does. The buck stops with God, Imo, so now all you atheists can pile on, and I will agree with you. ;).

So, back to the subject, why did this have to happen? Of course we will never know but we can conjecture about it. I have my own opinions and I think it is because humanity had to wake up and realize who is ultimately in charge – God. But it is more than that since most people already know that God is in charge. In my opinion, humanity has to eventually wake up and realize that we are all one people and the way we are living is not working for all of humanity. Ultimately, we need to come together and work together for the sake of all of humanity.

Reflections on the Coronavirus and the Oneness of Humanity

Sadly, what I see is that most people are basically selfish and materialistic. However, all humans also have a noble spiritual nature so they have the capacity to sacrifice for the sake of others, and we see that in these times of crisis. Not everyone is going to care about other people though; some people are going to be worried if they will be able to get toilet paper. To me it is Unbelievable that people would worry about such a petty thing when the world is crumbling all around them. Oh no, the Coronavirus is not the only world crisis, we have been in “crisis mode” for a very long time. Does anybody care about a solution?

I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone’s beliefs, but I do not believe Jesus is coming back to fix the mess the world is in; fixing this mess is the job for humans working together. And how much of this crisis can be attributed to the Christians who are “waiting for Jesus” and assuming He is going to come eventually, He just got hung up at the airport. :oops: But that is the power beliefs hold, people can believe anything. I think what we need to ask ourselves is how rational these beliefs are, and even more importantly, how are these beliefs going to help anyone? Clearly, Jesus is not here and there is no reason to believe He is coming because He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world (John 17:4, John 17:11).

It was not the purpose of this post to lay blame upon anyone, but I cannot help but think that holding the belief that Jesus is coming to rescue humanity plays a part in how people think and behave. Why worry about doing anything if Jesus is coming soon? Maybe I am reading too much into this because my academic background is psychology, or maybe I see something others do not see, I don’t know. I just know it bothers me tremendously, because it is selfish and lazy to expect Jesus or God to “fix” what humanity is responsible for and what humanity is fully capable of fixing.

According to my beliefs humans are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in so our sins will not go unpunished, because that is in accordance with God’s justice. However, the past is gone and now we need to live in the present and work towards the future. God will not abandon us to our fate. If we do His Will, God will be with us every step of the way as we try to apply His Remedy to the problems the world faces.

“God, the Vigilant, the Just, the Loving, the All-Wise Ordainer, can, in this supreme Dispensation, neither allow the sins of an unregenerate humanity, whether of omission or of commission, to go unpunished, nor will He be willing to abandon His children to their fate, and refuse them that culminating and blissful stage in their long, their slow and painful evolution throughout the ages, which is at once their inalienable right and their true destiny.” The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 4-5

This Judgment of God

It could be as a result of sins of humanity:


"It is certainly the case that sins are a potent cause of physical ailments. If humankind were free from the defilements of sin and waywardness, and lived according to a natural, inborn equilibrium, without following wherever their passions led, it is undeniable that diseases would no longer take the ascendant, nor diversify with such intensity.
But man hath perversely continued to serve his lustful appetites, and he would not content himself with simple foods. Rather, he prepared for himself food that was compounded of many ingredients, of substances differing one from the other. With this, and with the perpetrating of vile and ignoble acts, his attention was engrossed, and he abandoned the temperance and moderation of a natural way of life. The result was the engendering of diseases both violent and diverse."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 152-156
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
It could be as a result of sins of humanity:


"It is certainly the case that sins are a potent cause of physical ailments. If humankind were free from the defilements of sin and waywardness, and lived according to a natural, inborn equilibrium, without following wherever their passions led, it is undeniable that diseases would no longer take the ascendant, nor diversify with such intensity.
But man hath perversely continued to serve his lustful appetites, and he would not content himself with simple foods. Rather, he prepared for himself food that was compounded of many ingredients, of substances differing one from the other. With this, and with the perpetrating of vile and ignoble acts, his attention was engrossed, and he abandoned the temperance and moderation of a natural way of life. The result was the engendering of diseases both violent and diverse."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 152-156
What I like most about that quote is that it recognizes the waywardness of man stems from his desire to serve his own lustful appetites rather than be content with simple necessities.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Besides if this is a wakeup call about realising God is in charge then God should demonstrate that by protecting those who are realising God is in charge from the disease.

Being in charge also has with it the aspect of wisdom on knowing what is best for each and every soul and how that interacts with the best interest of every other soul.

As such. I see the One who is in control will allow events to unfold in a way that has the best interest of all at heart, I see there are no favourites.

As such the Love and Wrath of the one in charge, is the best thing that can happen at that given time for all.

Quran says it this way, as quoted by Baha'u'llah, 3:54 "And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners."

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There's nothing special about this virus. It's not even that deadly, compared to, say, untreated HIV/AIDS, which has killed tens of millions of people since the start
You can blame the media for making such a big deal about it frightening everybody and bringing down the economy.

There was one reported case in my county so now they have closed all the schools and libraries till further notice.
What are we to believe?
 
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