Jealous?I consider Christian theology to be corrupted by pagan beliefs and in particular Roman pagan beliefs.
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Jealous?I consider Christian theology to be corrupted by pagan beliefs and in particular Roman pagan beliefs.
Jealous?
Baha'is don't celebrate holidays? (I would also disagree with Baha'i being "pure monotheism" since what I see posted by your co-religionists on here indicates to me that the "Messangers of God" in your religion are viewed as semi-divine, at least. But I would say that none of the Abrahamic religions are "pure monotheism" since all of them have ended up worshipping humans, idolizing books, a piece of land, your tribe, etc. But that's another topic.)No, I believe in pure monotheism without human sacrifice.
Baha'is don't celebrate holidays? (I would also disagree with Baha'i being "pure monotheism" since what I see posted by your co-religionists on here indicates to me that the "Messangers of God" in your religion are viewed as semi-divine, at least. But I would say that none of the Abrahamic religions are "pure monotheism" since all of them have ended up worshipping humans, idolizing books, a piece of land, your tribe, etc. But that's another topic.)
Technically Christianity implies that the pagan world is now holy except for the evil parts. That's why it adopts anything good it finds in pagan life while avoiding the darker practices such as human sacrifice. There are reasons why the pagans love and adopt Christianity, and that is probably one of them. These days there are many groups that don't seem to remember that, and its kind of strange. Many protestant churches went through a phase of rejecting Halloween only to now embrace it under new names such as 'Light Night' and 'Trunk or Treat'. So...messianics? I predict they'll celebrate Christmas sooner or later probably. They might call it something else like 'Family Jesus Alternative Non Birth Day' or something like that. Its no different from when some people prefer to say 'Turkey Day' instead of 'Thanksgiving'. Its still the same day, and they still enjoy and appreciate food.So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.
Jesus true birthday is either a secret or unimportant, similar to Chinese birthdays. We don't know when Moses is born or Abraham or any of the famous Bible characters. Therefore it is understood that Jesus birthday cannot be on a particular day, but there is no reason we can't celebrate it on the 25th.Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?
I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
I'm not reading your copy and paste job and mumbo jumbo to obfuscate things, and why did you ignore my original question? I asked if Baha'i celebrate holidays. The stuff in the parentheses was only added a few minutes ago.Actually and absolutely no, the manifestations of God as bearers of the Revelation are not remotely considered demi-gods. You would have to provide a reference from the Baha'i writings to justify your assertions,
The message is Divine, but the messenger is human.
From: Station of Baha'u'llah
"That Bahá'u'lláh should, notwithstanding the overwhelming intensity of His Revelation, be regarded as essentially one of these Manifestations of God, never to be identified with that invisible Reality, the Essence of Divinity itself, is one of the major beliefs of our Faith — a belief which should never be obscured and the integrity of which no one of its followers should allow to be compromised." - Shoghi Effendi
From: The Great Educators: Manifestations of God
Know that the Holy Manifestations, though They have the degrees of endless perfections, yet, speaking generally, have only three stations. The first station is the physical; the second station is the human, which is that of the rational soul; the third is that of the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor. – Some Answered Questions, p. 151
The first station is the physical. Abdu’l-Baha explains:
The physical station is phenomenal; it is composed of elements, and necessarily everything that is composed is subject to decomposition. It is not possible that a composition should not be disintegrated. – ibid, p. 151.
This is the material nature Baha’u’llah spoke about, which refers to the physical body of the Prophets of God. Through this physical reality, the Manifestations may experience all the limitations of the human body – its pain and suffering and its mortality.
However, these experiences do not change the rational soul. Abdu’l-Baha writes:
Thus consider what thousands of vicissitudes can happen to the body of man, but the spirit is not affected by them; it may even be that some members of the body are entirely crippled, but the essence of the mind remains and is everlasting. A thousand accidents may happen to a garment, but for the wearer of it there is no danger. – ibid, pp. 155-156.
Abdu’l-Baha then elucidates the second station of the Chosen Ones of God — the rational soul:
The second is the station of the rational soul, which is the human reality. This is also phenomenal, and the Holy Manifestations share it with all mankind. – ibid, p. 156.
This definitive statement, that the Manifestations have a human soul, clearly means they are not Logos incarnate. Baha’is understand their human soul, however, as special. It is, as Baha’u’llah made plain, a “pure and stainless Soul,” an undefiled perfect mirror of God’s light. Baha’u’llah explains of the Chosen Ones of God:
So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.
Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?
I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
It is only pagan if one views it so. An object or a date are just an object or a date. If you ascribe Christian values to them, then they are Christian in nature.Yes, absolutely in every way besides Jesus.
It's highly unlikely that Jesus was born on the 25th of December either, though admittedly it's an odd date when all of the others are born on the 21st.
Christmas trees - German pagan custom. Mostly associated with Yule. Yule is originating from about the 4th century (as far as we can tell).
St. Nick/Santa - Ditto really, in fact about 90% of what is "Santa" is pretty much a re-badged Wodan (Odin). Wodan use to visit people with gifts in the midwinter riding his flying steed Sleipnir. This was later transformed into Father Christmas, and in modern times Sinterklaas or Santa Claus (in the west). In most non-American interpretations (aka not the Coke Santa) he still looks a hell of a lot like Wodan.
Mistletoe - Celtic pagan in origin and associated with fertility. The traditions developed around that and were adopted by Christians later. The Celts didn't "kiss" under the mistletoe, but they thought the plant was sexual in nature.
Needless to say, pretty silly to think Jesus is the reason for the season, etc.
Also, many are celebrating winter solstice at the same time.
I'm not reading your copy and paste job and mumbo jumbo to obfuscate things, and why did you ignore my original question? I asked if Baha'i celebrate holidays. The stuff in the parentheses was only added a few minutes ago.
Trivial? Well, this is a thread about a holiday so I thought it was appropriate to ask.Sorry, I considered the original question rather trivial. Yes, we celebrate holy days:
Holy days...
- The Birth of the Báb. Annually in October or November. ...
- Declaration of the Báb. Annually on 'Aẓamat 8. ...
- Martyrdom of the Báb. Annually on Raḥmat 17. ...
- The Birth of Baha'u'llah. Annually in October or November. ...
- Festival of Ridván. ...
- Ascension of Bahá'u'lláh. ...
- Day of the Covenant.
The calendar New Year is Spring or Vernal Equinox. It is simply the first day of the solar calendar. called Naw-Rúz.
Every year its the same ridiculous stuff. Look, Christians set aside this day to remember the birth of Jesus. There is nothing pagan about that (unless you consider worshiping a man to be pagan). I think you are right. I don't do Christmas because I'm a Jew. But I think for Gentiles it's a perfectly lovely holiday.So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.
Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?
I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
Trivial? Well, this is a thread about a holiday so I thought it was appropriate to ask.
So how do Baha'is celebrate those holidays? Do you have any traditions? Like a ritual, a meal, decorations, etc.?
Every year its the same ridiculous stuff. Look, Christians set aside this day to remember the birth of Jesus. There is nothing pagan about that (unless you consider worshiping a man to be pagan). I think you are right. I don't do Christmas because I'm a Jew. But I think for Gentiles it's a perfectly lovely holiday.
So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.
Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?
I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
And what is wrong with that? Coming together and celebrating love on any day? Weekday or Weekend?So tis the season to be Pagan.So if your Christian do you celebrate Christmas? My sister is Messianic Christian and she and her family do not celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan origins.
Horace and other Gods were born on December 1st, what is Jesus true birthday? What about Santa and Rudolph do you teach your kids Santa exists and Rudolph and Frosty the snowman Christmas elves?
I love it all. I think of it as a way of having family time together.
My remark about you Baha'is idolizing Bahawhatever as semi-divine wasn't a question. I was stating my view of it after months seeing you and your co-religionists go on about him (oh, sorry, I guess I should capitalize His pronouns like we do for deities, like you Baha'is do). Your obsfucations aren't going to convince me otherwise from what I see with my own two eyes. My mind is made up there based on observation. I really don't think "pure monotheism" exists, at least not in organized religions. If you want that, then cut out the angels, messangers, prophets, books, cultural and ethnocentric attitudes, etc. and just have God alone. What use is all that other stuff when you have an omni-max Supreme Being? Just approach this Being directly without any intermediary. So it tickles me how you Abrahamics all bash each other and accuse one another of "idolatry" when you're all in the same exact leaky boat. Of course, I don't expect you to see my point because you all have huge egos blinding you.No specific rituals nor specific decorations. Prayer, reciting scripture, and music are part of the observances, but not specific.
Actually the question is Christmas. I will include Easter as well, itself is a pagan holiday, and yes with specific pagan rituals and yes they are.
Having specific rituals and decorations is not relevant regardless concerning the topic of the thread.
I answered your specific question concerning the manifestations being called demi-gods, and you fail to respond except with insults.
My remark about you Baha'is idolizing Bahawhatever as semi-divine wasn't a question. I was stating my view of it after months seeing you and your co-religionists go on about him (oh, sorry, I guess I should capitalize His pronouns like we do for deities, like you Baha'is do). Your obsfucations aren't going to convince me otherwise from what I see with my own two eyes. My mind is made up there based on observation. I really don't think "pure monotheism" exists, at least not in organized religions. If you want that, then cut out the angels, messangers, prophets, books, cultural and ethnocentric attitudes, etc. and just have God alone. What use is all that other stuff when you have an omni-max Supreme Being? Just approach this Being directly without any intermediary. So it tickles me how you Abrahamics all bash each other and accuse one another of "idolatry" when you're all in the same exact leaky boat. Of course, I don't expect you to see my point because you all have huge egos blinding you.
Also, you're not exactly respectful of other religions, as you insult Christianity by saying it's "corrupted with Roman paganism" (which implies that pre-Christian Roman religion is a negative influence). So don't play with the victim with me.
No, I am not a fan of the Baha'i Faith and I don't need to be. To be honest, I don't really like new religious movements (younger than 200 years or so) in general. However, you're being hypocritical because your religion does not respect other religions. You spit on polytheist religions and don't even recognize those as actual religions (probably because they're much harder to warp to fit your usurping narrative) and for the ones you try to warp and usurp - Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Vaishnavism, Christianity and Islam - you expect to supersede and their followers to convert to your religion. You expect the whole world to become Baha'i and to be a world power. Your religion is also as homophonic and sexist as the other Abrahamic religions are.Your mind made up pretty much ends any possible dialogue. Nonetheless you have to take responsibility for your own negative view and not blame the Baha'is nor I for your view.
your hostility toward Baha'i and the Baha'i Faith is up front, and does not deserve a constructive response. Actually, it is apparent you are hostile to the Abrahamic religions without exception.
The Bahá'í Faith is a religion teaching the essential worth of all religions, and the unity and equality of all people.[1] Established by Bahá'u'lláh in 1863, it initially grew in Iran and parts of the Middle East, where it has faced ongoing persecution since its inception.[2] Currently it has between 5 and 7 million adherents, known as Bahá'ís, spread out into most of the world's countries and territoriesActually and absolutely no, the manifestations of God as bearers of the Revelation are not remotely considered demi-gods. You would have to provide a reference from the Baha'i writings to justify your assertions,
The message is Divine, but the messenger is human.
From: Station of Baha'u'llah
"That Bahá'u'lláh should, notwithstanding the overwhelming intensity of His Revelation, be regarded as essentially one of these Manifestations of God, never to be identified with that invisible Reality, the Essence of Divinity itself, is one of the major beliefs of our Faith — a belief which should never be obscured and the integrity of which no one of its followers should allow to be compromised." - Shoghi Effendi
From: The Great Educators: Manifestations of God
Know that the Holy Manifestations, though They have the degrees of endless perfections, yet, speaking generally, have only three stations. The first station is the physical; the second station is the human, which is that of the rational soul; the third is that of the divine appearance and the heavenly splendor. – Some Answered Questions, p. 151
The first station is the physical. Abdu’l-Baha explains:
The physical station is phenomenal; it is composed of elements, and necessarily everything that is composed is subject to decomposition. It is not possible that a composition should not be disintegrated. – ibid, p. 151.
This is the material nature Baha’u’llah spoke about, which refers to the physical body of the Prophets of God. Through this physical reality, the Manifestations may experience all the limitations of the human body – its pain and suffering and its mortality.
However, these experiences do not change the rational soul. Abdu’l-Baha writes:
Thus consider what thousands of vicissitudes can happen to the body of man, but the spirit is not affected by them; it may even be that some members of the body are entirely crippled, but the essence of the mind remains and is everlasting. A thousand accidents may happen to a garment, but for the wearer of it there is no danger. – ibid, pp. 155-156.
Abdu’l-Baha then elucidates the second station of the Chosen Ones of God — the rational soul:
The second is the station of the rational soul, which is the human reality. This is also phenomenal, and the Holy Manifestations share it with all mankind. – ibid, p. 156.
This definitive statement, that the Manifestations have a human soul, clearly means they are not Logos incarnate. Baha’is understand their human soul, however, as special. It is, as Baha’u’llah made plain, a “pure and stainless Soul,” an undefiled perfect mirror of God’s light. Baha’u’llah explains of the Chosen Ones of God: