Is Believing in God(s) a Choice?

[PureX]

It does not seem to be too far from my own understanding of what happens, then.

I would not call that belief, though. Belief proper is, as I said previously, quite rare.

I agree with you about what belief is. And isn't. But unfortunately, I have been unable to get anyone else on this site to grasp that "belief" is not the thing "believed in". That it is the 'believer' choosing to reject doubt and to ignore skepticism. In that sense there are very few "believers" among theists. Some, of course. And many religions push hard for that choice (and wrongly, IMO), but most theists remain aware of their own doubt and skepticism. They accept the given idea of God, yes, but not without reservation. They are the faithful, not the "believers".

You might call that group hopefuls, I suppose. But I think that you are not acknowledging how many of those are just conforming to expectations or even just keeping appearances in order to avoid tensions. They may be many more than you expect.

I think that happens when they are not feeling any particular need for their God-ideal at the moment. When those reasons that they like the idea of God that I mentioned above are not being called upon by life's circumstances they do tend to be indifferent, and yet they also do tend to maintain their connection to their religion. Not through force or coercion, but because they still see and feel the value of it, ideally, even if not at that particular moment.

 

[AppieB]

It was suggested in another thread that one can choose to be a believer or not.

Is it a choice, is it something inherent to one's psyche, or is a product of one's environment and experience?

I don't think believing or not believing is a choice. Either you are convinced a god exists or not. I didn't choose to not be convinced.

I was raised in a religious household (catholic) and I didn't decide to believe in God. When I grew older and learned more about the world I realised I didn't believe anymore. That wasn't a choice for me.

To say "I choose my beliefs" doensn't make any sense to me.
And that's beside the question whether we even have free will or not.

 

[wellwisher]

Most of our beliefs are conditioned by others. This includes science. I have never been in outer space, orbiting the earth, to see first hand, that the earth is round. All I have to work with is second hand data that is offered by others. I look to their faith and conviction. Most of what people know about science, is based on faith in others, who say they have first hand data. We have never seen the iron core of the earth, but have faith it is there, based on the prestige of experts. This is not much different than faith in other things not seen.

I tend to believe the conceptual framework of God is innate. Just that we each approach this in different ways. For example, the theory of a black hole, is not based on actually seeing something close up and personal. It is inferred from far away from telescope data. But treated like we are best buddies who grew up together.

The math used to model the black hole is appealing because it thinks in terms of smaller than small; singularity, and larger than large; extreme bending of space and time. This is also an extrapolation used for God; alpha and omega. The black hole is how atheists practice their faith in something that is close to infinitesimal and infinite at the same time.

There is a human need to think beyond our senses. Science does this with tools and technology. The engineers never grow tired of trying to reach further and further, to see where it all ends or starts. Some people seek the infinite via the brain, using the frontal lobe, which is the most modern part of the brain. The need to exercise the new part of the brain may be part of this common drive.

 

[PureX]

I don't think believing or not believing is a choice. Either you are convinced a god exists or not. I didn't choose to not be convinced.

I was raised in a religious household (catholic) and I didn't decide to believe in God. When I grew older and learned more about the world I realised I didn't believe anymore. That wasn't a choice for me.

To say "I choose my beliefs" doensn't make any sense to me.
And that's beside the question whether we even have free will or not.

Once you are able to understand that the religious images and stories that other people have used to conceptualize and convey their god-experience to you are not actually God, your mind will be re-opened to the possibility of God existing, again. Then you can choose to pursue that mystery for yourself, and in your own way, or you can choose not to. Either way, it will be your choice.

Rejecting someone else's proclaimed idea of God as if it were the only possible reality of God, is not logical. So the question then becomes; are you able and willing to seek out and determine the viability of your own idea of God?

 

[muhammad_isa]

To say "I choose my beliefs" doensn't make any sense to me.

You might well not choose them directly, but we do in effect, by choosing which path to tread .. which way to go in life.

These things affect us spiritually.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It was suggested in another thread that one can choose to be a believer or not.

Is it a choice, is it something inherent to one's psyche, or is a product of one's environment and experience?

Neither.
If it's irresistantly caused by something else, then it's not a choice.

 

[Willamena]

It was suggested in another thread that one can choose to be a believer or not.

Is it a choice, is it something inherent to one's psyche, or is a product of one's environment and experience?

Belief is acceptance that a thing is so, so it is a condition, not a choice. You've either accepted that a thing is, or you haven't.

 

[firedragon]

Belief is acceptance that a thing is so, so it is a condition, not a choice. You've either accepted that a thing is, or you haven't.

Do you believe it's predetermined? I mean the question is, is belief predetermined?

 

[AppieB]

Once you are able to understand that the religious images and stories that other people have used to conceptualize and convey their god-experience to you are not actually God, your mind will be re-opened to the possibility of God existing, again. Then you can choose to pursue that mystery for yourself, and in your own way, or you can choose not to. Either way, it will be your choice.

The choice to pursue, yes. The choice to believe, no.

Rejecting someone else's proclaimed idea of God as if it were the only possible reality of God, is not logical. So the question then becomes; are you able and willing to seek out and determine the viability of your own idea of God?

Me rejecting someone else's proclaimed idea of God does not mean that I think this is the only possible reality of God. However, I don't see a reason to pursue my own idea of god, because I don't have one. I have no basis to construct my own idea of God.

 

[AppieB]

You might well not choose them directly, but we do in effect, by choosing which path to tread .. which way to go in life.

These things affect us spiritually.

Sure, I could choose to read the Quran. However, whether I will be conviced of it is not a choice.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Sure, I could choose to read the Quran. However, whether I will be conviced of it is not a choice.

As I say, not directly, no.
The human mind is a complex psyche.
Our deeds affect our whole being.

We are capable of even lying to ourselves!

 

[PureX]

The choice to pursue, yes. The choice to believe, no.

To "believe" is unnecessary, and basically ego-centric. All we're really believing when we say believe is that we are right. It's just the rejection of doubt, and skepticism. And who really cares but us? Most theists are not "believers". They simply choose to trust in their idea of God because doing it helps them live better lives. And because there is no convincing reason not to. But that doesn't mean they blindly presume they are right.

Me rejecting someone else's proclaimed idea of God does not mean that I think this is the only possible reality of God. However, I don't see a reason to pursue my own idea of god, because I don't have one. I have no basis to construct my own idea of God.

Of course you do. Just ask yourself what you would like God to be if God exists. And keep your answers in accord with reality.

I have determined that there are aspects of life as a human being that transcend the functionality of material existence, like beauty, forgiveness, empathy, honor, and so on. The universe as a physical entity would function just as it does without these. And yet these not only occur (among humans) they are our most significant achievements. So I view these as 'transcendent' achievements. In that they transcend the physical realm of existence. So if there is a God. It seems reasonable to me that it is being manifested in my experience of reality through these kinds of 'transcendent' phenomena. But that's my choice. And my idea of "God". I think for God to be real to someone, they will have to develop their own god-ideal and experience it for themselves.

It's not that difficult, and it can give a person a whole new way of experiencing and perceiving reality. Often, a better, more positive way. That's why there are so many theists among we humans, and so few atheists. Don't confuse theists with "believers".

 

[AppieB]

To "believe" is unnecessary, and basically ego-centric. All we're really believing when we say believe is that we are right. It's just the rejection of doubt, and skepticism. And who really cares but us? Most theists are not "believers". They simply choose to trust in their idea of God because doing it helps them live better lives. And because there is no convincing reason not to. But that doesn't mean they blindly presume they are right.

Not "All". Certainly not me. When I believe something, I don't reject doubt and skepticism. Maybe for you that's the case, but not for me. And when I encounter with other people I don't get the impression that they do as well.

Of course you do. Just ask yourself what you would like God to be if God exists. And keep your answers in accord with reality.

To what purpose?

I have determined that there are aspects of life as a human being that transcend the functionality of material existence, like beauty, forgiveness, empathy, honor, and so on. The universe as a physical entity would function just as it does without these. And yet these not only occur (among humans) they are our most significant achievements. So I view these as 'transcendent' achievements. In that they transcend the physical realm of existence. So if there is a God. It seems reasonable to me that it is being manifested in my experience of reality through these kinds of 'transcendent' phenomena. But that's my choice. And my idea of "God". I think for God to be real to someone, they will have to develop their own god-ideal and experience it for themselves.

It's not that difficult, and it can give a person a whole new way of experiencing and perceiving reality. Often, a better, more positive way. That's why there are so many theists among we humans, and so few atheists. Don't confuse theists with "believers".

It seems to me you are putting the car before the horse. First you question if there is a God and then you give your idea of God (although you don't really give an idea, you just explain where it would manifest). That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..First you question if there is a God and then you give your idea of God (although you don't really give an idea, you just explain where it would manifest). That doesn't make sense to me.

Why not?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't think we can choose to believe things.
We're either convinced of something, or we're not. Or we don't know.

 

[PureX]

Not "All". Certainly not me. When I believe something, I don't reject doubt and skepticism. Maybe for you that's the case, but not for me. And when I encounter with other people I don't get the impression that they do as well.

If you're not rejecting doubt, and ignoring skepticism, then what does the word "believe" even mean to you?

To what purpose?

To explore the possibility of God's existence. You do realize, I hope, that it is possible that God exists: that there is no evidence whatever that would lead any reasonable human to conclude that God cannot exist. So, since it is a possibility, and that possibility could have a significant effect on you, why would you not choose to explore it?

It seems to me you are putting the car before the horse. First you question if there is a God and then you give your idea of God (although you don't really give an idea, you just explain where it would manifest). That doesn't make sense to me.

I know it doesn't, but nevertheless, it is logical, and honest.

None of us can determine whether or not God exists. We simply don't have that capability. So there is no logical reason to get caught up in that question. The answer is simple: we do not know. So the question that really matters, then, becomes: if I choose to trust in the idea that God does exists, then what God? And exists, how? And if I choose to trust in the idea that God does not exist, then I am doing so based on what reasoning? And to what result?

 

[PureX]

I don't think we can choose to believe things.
We're either convinced of something, or we're not. Or we don't know.

You choose the criteria required for you to be convinced, and then you choose when or whether that criteria has been met. How are these not your choices?

 

[SkepticThinker]

You choose the criteria required for you to be convinced, and then you choose when or whether that criteria has been met. How are these not your choices?

My criteria is, is there evidence that convinces me that something is true?
If there is, and I find it compelling enough, then I will be convinced.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My criteria is, is there evidence that convinces me that something is true?
If there is, and I find it compelling enough, then I will be convinced.

Even evidence has a limit:
Science has limits: A few things that science does not do - Understanding Science

Philosophy of science - Wikipedia

 

[SkepticThinker]

Even evidence has a limit:
Science has limits: A few things that science does not do - Understanding Science

Philosophy of science - Wikipedia

No need to get into all that.

If something doesn't have convincing evidence in its favour, I'm just not going to be convinced. My brain doesn't work any other way.