Is Belief in God Spritual Suicide?

[Peace]

Hello Peace
I would like you to elaborate on being sure of His existence, please. What makes you sure, is it a sense of certainty and how to you feel/know that?

Hello Onkara

The creation is a sign of His existence. You and me and our human fellows, nature, animals, the skies, sun, the moon... the whole universe is a sign of His existence.
Yes, it is a sense of certainty. I do sense His presence all the time and everywhere. He is the closest to me than anybody else, so close to me than my jugular veins. The mere fact that He created me is sign to me that He is there. He is the one who provides for me, sustains me, supports me, cures me, guides me.... and as He brought me into existence He will make die when He wills, so how can I just deny His existence?! Plus, the prohets thoughout time came to inform us about His existence and about the objective of our existence.
My certainty and belief in Him is beyond doubt!

 

[atanu]

Is it not true that those who believe in god will find only the god they believe in? And is it not also the case that any god the petty mind can conceive of is a petty god? Last, if all of that is so, then is not belief in god a form of spiritual suicide since it would condemn us to -- at the very best -- find nothing beyond our own petty, projected idea of god?

Hello Sunstone

I understand that 'projected idea of oneself' has already condemned us to -----.

...

 

[SLAMH]

The creation is a sign of His existence. You and me and our human fellows, nature, animals, the skies, sun, the moon... the whole universe is a sign of His existence.

I'd like to start from this point and anyone may correct me if I'm wrong.

Science defines the force of gravity, but we actually don't see the force itself. We don't see any particles or waves acting on and we don't know what the things pulling the objects down and moreover I don't think if there is anyone who can assure if gravity is substance or what it actually could be, but we do observe its effects seeing objects falling down as in gravitational force. Repulsion and attraction in electrostatic force.

The point that I want to make, do we have to see God so that we confirm its existence ?

The whole of this universe, the sun worm the earth, and after the day night comes. Everything seems like to be working consistently and even well organized. There must be an organizer for all of this, but still it doesn't seem to be a satisfying proof for some.

 

[astarath]

I am way more spiritual now that I have the Spirit of Christ in me then I was as an atheist.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Does the second post to Luis answer the doubt above?

I am tot really saying that there is a "soul" I have no evidence of a soul as per abrahmic theology, although you can call it that should it help us to understand. I call it Consciousness. But not consciousness in the sense that you are awake, but a state of pure unbroken awareness, which exists even where there is no object or sense data for awareness to know itself.

I am sorry this is so complicated. It is not on my agenda to pursue this. I was actually hoping to highlight that belief in anything is still belief limited to our petty ideas (as per OP). I am not out to show you pure consciousness here, neither do you need to accept my word (if you would) .

Fair enough.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I am way more spiritual now that I have the Spirit of Christ in me then I was as an atheist.

That is interesting.
In what way would you describe yourself as more spiritual now then when you was an atheist?
What is your understanding of the word 'spiritual'?

 

[Onkara]

The point that I want to make, do we have to see God so that we confirm its existence ?

This is a good point. We tend to reply on our senses to provide the evidence, but senes to our limited. Science must measure the measurable, so it must be observable by the senses or equipment which amplifies our senses (microscope/Satellites etc).

Science may tell us that there is gravity due to rotational spinning of the earth. I cannot deny this but my senses do not confirm the world is spinning (of course I can confirm the sun moves and seasons come and go).

Peace's post is excellent and I can relate to it completely albeit from a different theological background. I think that those who know God know God to be different to the matter and senses alone.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Science defines the force of gravity, but we actually don't see the force itself. We don't see any particles or waves acting on and we don't know what the things pulling the objects down and moreover I don't think if there is anyone who can assure if gravity is substance or what it actually could be, but we do observe its effects seeing objects falling down as in gravitational force. Repulsion and attraction in electrostatic force.

While we cannot see gravitywaves with our naked eyes we can indeed measure them, and if the LHC does what we hope it does we might even get familiar with the particle carrying Gravity, the elusive Higgs Boson.

The point that I want to make, do we have to see God so that we confirm its existence ?

It would sure help...

The whole of this universe, the sun worm the earth, and after the day night comes. Everything seems like to be working consistently and even well organized. There must be an organizer for all of this, but still it doesn't seem to be a satisfying proof for some.

I've highlighted the premise that many, including me, do not consider to be a given. Showing (not telling) why you think this is so is the first step. The second would be to show why this "organizer" has to be your god.

 

[Onkara]

I am way more spiritual now that I have the Spirit of Christ in me then I was as an atheist.

Where about is Christ in you?
I don't mean that sarcastically, but how would you describe it?

 

[jarofthoughts]

I think that those who know God know God to be different to the matter and senses alone.

HOW do they know this?

 

[Onkara]

HOW do they know this?

Personally. I cannot show God to you, I can take you through the steps which lead me to make this assertion above. What is most remarkable is that Peace's description resonates with my own and I would say her steps are not the same as mine.

Can I ask you, are you seriously looking for yourself or are you trying to find an error in the reply?

 

[astarath]

I am in agreement. People can walk you to the gate but you need to decide to go through.

 

[SLAMH]

While we cannot see gravitywaves with our naked eyes we can indeed measure them, and if the LHC does what we hope it does we might even get familiar with the particle carrying Gravity, the elusive Higgs Boson.

I hope so.

I've highlighted the premise that many, including me, do not consider to be a given. Showing (not telling) why you think this is so is the first step. The second would be to show why this "organizer" has to be your god.

It is not my point, what I meant to say what could be a satisfying for everyone to not deny the existence of the creator ?

 

[LuisDantas]

It is not my point, what I meant to say what could be a satisfying for everyone to not deny the existence of the creator ?

In all honesty, I must say that it is just not possible to convince everyone of the existence of God. Perhaps 10% of all people, myself included, simply do not agree that there are any evidences of a Creator behind existence.

Ultimately it is a matter of aesthetical preference.

 

[Onkara]

Personally I was not looking for a Creator, but rather an explanation of what everything is, including me.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Personally. I cannot show God to you, I can take you through the steps which lead me to make this assertion above. What is most remarkable is that Peace's description resonates with my own and I would say her steps are not the same as mine.

But I assume no part of this personal experience is measurable or empirical in any way? How do you know that you are not just deluding yourself?

Can I ask you, are you seriously looking for yourself or are you trying to find an error in the reply?

I am not looking for some kind of religious or spiritual "awakening" of any kind, and personally I think that anything supernatural is nonsense. Just as it is considered impossible to convert a "dyed in the wool" theist, I do not think it is possible for a theist to convince me that their view is the right one.
I am however trying to understand the mindset of the people who do believe in these things, especially since it is so alien to my own way of thinking.

 

[Sunstone]

But I assume no part of this personal experience is measurable or empirical in any way? How do you know that you are not just deluding yourself?

Interesting questions, but...

In precisely what sense is your skepticism measurable or empirical? How do you know that you are just not deluding yourself when you believe you have personally experienced a skeptical thought or idea?

Answer one set of questions and I believe you will have answered the other.

 

[Sunstone]

I am way more spiritual now that I have the Spirit of Christ in me then I was as an atheist.

What do you mean by "spiritual"?

 

[Sunstone]

I think that those who know God...

Is there some sense in which you can know god? I ask because I am unaware that even an experience of god allows you to know god. So what am I missing here? And, please tell me, who is this "you" that does the knowing?

 

[Sunstone]

I am not looking for some kind of religious or spiritual "awakening" of any kind, and personally I think that anything supernatural is nonsense.

I am curious whether you believe a "spiritual awakening" necessarily involves anything supernatural? And if you do believe that, would you be so kind as to explain how you know that a spiritual awakening necessarily involves anything supernatural? Just being curious.