Is atheism a belief?

[oldbadger]

They are trying to make one word, have 'different meanings', even when used without specification. In other words, there are going to be contradictions in "inherent meaning", for that one word.

Even if always used with specification, if there are 'different meanings', then there is a 'meaningless word'.

So it's a bit like Christianity then. I am told that there are over 3000 Christian Creeds. And only recently at a Christian tea@chat meeting a senior minister became angry at mention of another Christian group nearby and starting shouting 'They are not Christians!"'

It's just humanity, I;'m afraid.

 

[Desert Snake]

So it's a bit like Christianity then. I am told that there are over 3000 Christian Creeds. And only recently at a Christian tea@chat meeting a senior minister became angry at mention of another Christian group nearby and starting shouting 'They are not Christians!"'

It's just humanity, I;'m afraid.

Supposedly, 'christianity', has a very broad meaning, and frankly I don't believe the definition is very good.

 

[ArtieE]

So it's a bit like Christianity then. I am told that there are over 3000 Christian Creeds. And only recently at a Christian tea@chat meeting a senior minister became angry at mention of another Christian group nearby and starting shouting 'They are not Christians!"'

It's just humanity, I;'m afraid.

Atheist. The prefix a- means "not, without". An atheist is a person who is not a theist. And yet some people manage not to get it.

 

[oldbadger]

Supposedly, 'christianity', has a very broad meaning, and frankly I don't believe the definition is very good.

Fair enough.
This is also true of Atheism, I think. Some years ago on another web-club frequented by atheists I asked if any members had any kinds of superstition, such as 'touching wood' or any old customs linked to superstition and the result was amazing. Some told of various tenets and then others responded to those members with extreme anger about their posts. Yes, atheists have differing ideas about 'belief'.

 

[oldbadger]

Atheist. The prefix a- means "not, without". An atheist is a person who is not a theist. And yet some people manage not to get it.

Ha ha!
So which are you?
A Not Theist or a Without Theist?

You're the one who mentioned that you don't know what to believe, right? So at this time you think in terms of 'belief'?

 

[Trailblazer]

It is not a waste of time if the purpose is to verify whether you or another person is being truthful. But, if you suspect that it is you who is being untruthful, as in accusing me of using the term "rabid theists", then indeed you don't want to "waste time" verifying your own lies and arrogance.

You must have me mixed up with someone else. I never accused you of using the term “rabid theists.”

I never accused you of anything or implied anything about what you said. I asked a simple question.

PureX said: Atheism is the presumption that no gods exist unless and until proven otherwise. And it IS A BELIEF because the atheist believes that he is and would be capable of recognizing the evidence of the existence of a god, if one existed. This belief is what defines atheism as something different from agnosticism.

ecco said: That's a lot of self-serving nonsense. It's also untrue. You are not an atheist. If you want to post what you think atheists believe, then you need to quote atheists. Since you don't/can't we can just take your comments as unsupportable male bovine feces.
#226 ecco, Saturday at 2:54 PM

Trailblazer said: So, are you saying that you might not be capable of recognizing the evidence of the existence of a god, if one existed?
#232 Trailblazer, Saturday at 9:20 PM

OK. However, that will not prevent me from commenting on your posts as I see fit.

Say whatever you want to about me or what I wrire. You only make yourself look bad to good people when you deride and criticize other people and speak for them as if you know their intentions better than they know their own intentions.

So carry on. You only hurt yourself when you speak for other people as if you know their intentions better than they know their own intentions. If you cannot understand why it is arrogant to think you know more about another person’s intentions than they know about their own intentions there is nothing more I can say.

If you want to know what someone’s intentions are, it is always best to ask them rather than assuming you know.

If someone spoke for you and your intentions and misrepresented you, then you have a right to set the record straight because that is in accordance with justice; and maybe that happened with you and someone else, but not with you and me. I never spoke for your intentions. I only asked you a question because I sincerely wanted to know the answer.

I am so grateful that I am a Baha’i because I have teachings to guide me regarding how to conduct myself, and how to relate to myself and other people.

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.

44: O COMPANION OF MY THRONE! Hear no evil, and see no evil, abase not thyself, neither sigh and weep. Speak no evil, that thou mayest not hear it spoken unto thee, and magnify not the faults of others that thine own faults may not appear great; and wish not the abasement of anyone, that thine own abasement be not exposed. Live then the days of thy life, that are less than a fleeting moment, with thy mind stainless, thy heart unsullied, thy thoughts pure, and thy nature sanctified, so that, free and content, thou mayest put away this mortal frame, and repair unto the mystic paradise and abide in the eternal kingdom for evermore.

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh

 

[Trailblazer]

I claim there is no god. I claim there are no gods.

Can you prove that?

 

[ArtieE]

Ha ha!
So which are you?
A Not Theist or a Without Theist?

I'm not a theist. Not theist. Atheist.

You're the one who mentioned that you don't know what to believe, right? So at this time you think in terms of 'belief'?

When I want to explain what I know or don't know I think in terms of knowledge, when I want to explain what I believe or don't believe I think in terms of belief.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm not a theist. Not theist. Atheist.

Ok...... if that's what you believe, then, fine.

When I want to explain what I know or don't know I think in terms of knowledge, when I want to explain what I believe or don't believe I think in terms of belief.

It's our language........ it's just about what we believe.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Oh come on!
Bite the bullet!
You can do it......... just tell us that where there is no certainty then there is only belief left. And you are not certain, I believe....

You seem confused.

Do you understand that I've already said I don't believe that there is no God?

 

[dfnj]

Can you prove that?

You can't prove a negative. I can't prove that one day in the future monkeys will fly out of every theist's butt. However, based on the way monkeys work, there's a very low probability this event will ever happen. I think most atheists are smart enough to know you can't prove a negative. So when they say God does not exist what they really mean is it is very unlikely monkeys are going to fly out of anyone's butt in the future.

Regardless of your desires to prove negatives, I will prove to you God exists. God is just a word. What the word God means is defined by every sentence the word has ever been used in. Nobody denies the existence of God. People use the word all the time! What the word God means is irrelevant to whether or not God exists. God exists and is living in this sentence. God is not in your head. God is right here in front of your eyes existing on the screen as you read it.

 

[ArtieE]

Ok...... if that's what you believe, then, fine.

It also seems to be what englishclub "believes" too...
"a- also an- not, without atheist, anaemic"
Prefixes | Vocabulary | EnglishClub

 

[ArtieE]

I am so grateful that I am a Baha’i because I have teachings to guide me regarding how to conduct myself, and how to relate to myself and other people.

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.

44: O COMPANION OF MY THRONE! Hear no evil, and see no evil, abase not thyself, neither sigh and weep. Speak no evil, that thou mayest not hear it spoken unto thee, and magnify not the faults of others that thine own faults may not appear great; and wish not the abasement of anyone, that thine own abasement be not exposed. Live then the days of thy life, that are less than a fleeting moment, with thy mind stainless, thy heart unsullied, thy thoughts pure, and thy nature sanctified, so that, free and content, thou mayest put away this mortal frame, and repair unto the mystic paradise and abide in the eternal kingdom for evermore.

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh

It's good that people who don't know how to conduct themselves and don't know how to relate to themselves and other people have teachings like you quote here and scriptures like the Ten Commandments and Jesus telling them to follow the Golden Rule. And if you can get them to believe they would be punished if they don't follow those teachings or would get rewarded if they follow them, the more incentive they would have to behave morally. If religions didn't exist atheists would have to invent them as a means of keeping sociopaths and criminals and other assorted anti-social individuals in check.

 

[ecco]

I claim there is no god. I claim there are no gods. I claim that all "gods" are the creations of man's imaginings. I also claim the Easter Bunny is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim that Santa Clause is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim that Mickey Mouse is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim Psychic Snowflakes are the creation of man's (mine) imaginings.

I see no difference between any of them.

I don't believe gods exist, but considering how many universes or dimensions there could be to say I believe that no gods could possibly exist anywhere without some pretty good evidence that they couldn't would be foolish.

So, you believe that somewhere Mickey Mouse is whistling while piloting a little boat...

To me, that would be foolish.

 

[ecco]

This is why I checked "maybe" in the poll.
For most atheists, atheism is not a belief. It is the lack thereof.
But there are people like ecco. Unusual, but they certainly exist.
Tom

 

[ArtieE]

So, you believe that somewhere Mickey Mouse is whistling while piloting a little boat...

To me, that would be foolish.

I consider it foolish mistaking Mickey Mouse for a god.

 

[ecco]

Well, their label is Atheism, but they can tend to be so irritated by the word 'Belief' that they dare not use it.

The only time we get upset is when theists try to conflate the various definitions of "belief" and accuse us of using blind belief for our rejection of gods.

oldbadger, I'm sure this isn't the first time that's been pointed out to you in the past 7 years. That makes your comment disingenuous at best.

And they are very touchy about who can join their club.

More nonsense. Anyone and everyone who has overcome superstitious beliefs and seen the light of rational thinking is most welcome.

 

[ecco]

They are trying to make one word, have 'different meanings', even when used without specification. In other words, there are going to be contradictions in "inherent meaning", for that one word.

Even if always used with specification, if there are 'different meanings', then there is a 'meaningless word'.

Nonsense. Many words have multiple meanings:

• Crane
  
• Date
  
• Engaged
  
• Foil
  
• Leaves
  
• Net
  
• Point
  
• Right

 

[ecco]

I don't believe gods exist, but considering how many universes or dimensions there could be to say I believe that no gods could possibly exist anywhere without some pretty good evidence that they couldn't would be foolish.

So, you believe that somewhere Mickey Mouse is whistling while piloting a little boat...

I consider it foolish mistaking Mickey Mouse for a god.

Why? Really, why?

Gods are no more than the creations of man's imaginings. They were created to help man explain to men where we came from, what happens to us when we die, why the locusts ate our corn. They were used for these things and to lend an air of authority to pronouncements (don't eat pig meat, don't steal your neighbor's donkey/wife).

Mickey Mouse was created to entertain. Psychic snowflakes and the god of LastThursdayism were created to make a point. The Easter Bunny - I don't really know. The bottom line is that none of them have any more basis in reality than any other.

If you still think there is something that separates gods from any other creations of man's imaginings, I would suggest that that "belief" is just a leftover of early childhood beliefs coupled with daily reinforcement and with nothing countering it.

 

[ArtieE]

Why? Really, why?

Gods are no more than the creations of man's imaginings. They were created to help man explain to men where we came from, what happens to us when we die, why the locusts ate our corn. They were used for these things and to lend an air of authority to pronouncements (don't eat pig meat, don't steal your neighbor's donkey/wife).

Mickey Mouse was created to entertain. Psychic snowflakes and the god of LastThursdayism were created to make a point. The Easter Bunny - I don't really know. The bottom line is that none of them have any more basis in reality than any other.

If you still think there is something that separates gods from any other creations of man's imaginings, I would suggest that that "belief" is just a leftover of early childhood beliefs coupled with daily reinforcement and with nothing countering it.

It would appear we're not talking about the same thing. What is your definition of a god?