In the Beginning, why just a few, can we learn from the past?

[TransmutingSoul]

This discussion is about God, it is about how we have come to know God via Prophets, or Messengers, or Manifestations of God.

Why is it that time shows us who were most likely a God given Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God, yet when the Message is first given there a only few that embrace that Message?

How do we tell when the path given by a Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God has been so divided, that the way to the narrow gate is so much harder to navigate?

This topic raises many tangents. Happy to discuss them all, as it may very well be, that no Faith is exempt from dividing the path to God.

Regards Tony

 

[The Hammer]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Or

We take what was a normal but well-spoken and ethical human, and then mythologize them to the point of Deification/Sainthood/Prophet via semi-historical hagiographic stories.

 

[The Hammer]

How do we tell when the path given by a Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God has been so divided, that the way to the narrow gate is so much harder to navigate?

Because the point was never to follow the path of a prophet, messenger or manifestation of the Gods. Their path is theirs to walk alone. The point was for you to listen to them, take heed, and forge your own path without them. It's a relay race, not a convoy.

 

[The Hammer]

This topic raises many tangents. Happy to discuss them all, as it may very well be, that no Faith is exempt from dividing the path to God

The Gods divided the path on purpose. To force cooperation, or mutual destruction. Our move.

 

[sun rise]

Why is it that time shows us who were most likely a God given Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God, yet when the Message is first given there a only few that embrace that Message?

How do we tell when the path given by a Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God has been so divided, that the way to the narrow gate is so much harder to navigate?

When the Avatar comes, he brings in a new blend of energy. Being new, only a few are sensitive to it . Over time, generations, people are born into that new blend and find it normal rather than strange and new.

After the time in a body of the Avatar, ordinary people start twisting the message according to their lower desires. Sometimes it happens quickly as in the case of Islam's great schism. Sometimes it happens slower and less dramatically. But throughout history we can see it occurring again and again.

So I would phrase the second paragraph in terms of how we can hearken back to the real message.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Because the point was never to follow the path of a prophet, messenger or manifestation of the Gods. Their path is theirs to walk alone. The point was for you to listen to them, take heed, and forge your own path without them. It's a relay race, not a convoy.

I would mostly agree with that, as a Messenger does not need anyone to approach and accept them. I see we need the connection, so we do not wander to far away. I do not see them as the path, but consider them a Gate on a path we can choose.

History also shows that there is a Gate to that Gate with a crier, calling us to a path that leads to the narrow gate. Maybe the path we then need to walk, becomes that Message.

I have not really contemplated this deeply to date.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Gods divided the path on purpose. To force cooperation, or mutual destruction. Our move.

I see there is truth in that statement, except in my case I drop the plural.

Maybe it is the plural that is the cause of all the perceived division?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

When the Avatar comes, he brings in a new blend of energy. Being new, only a few are sensitive to it . Over time, generations, people are born into that new blend and find it normal rather than strange and new.

After the time in a body of the Avatar, ordinary people start twisting the message according to their lower desires. Sometimes it happens quickly as in the case of Islam's great schism. Sometimes it happens slower and less dramatically. But throughout history we can see it occurring again and again.

So I would phrase the second paragraph in terms of how we can hearken back to the real message.

I see they are sound conclusions.

Maybe we can consider the concept that an all wise creator, can also provided us with progressive knowledge, to enable us to embrace and ever advancing civilization.

Personally I see knowledge is based on strong foundations of Virtues and Morality.

Regards Tony

 

[The Hammer]

Maybe it is the plural that is the cause of all the perceived division?

I don't think the plural is the cause of division. If it were the case, there wouldn't be 47 (random spitball number) different denominations and interpretations of the so called "One" God of the Abrahamics (Baha'i, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim for instance), changing the ways in which It is supposed to be worshipped and followed; creating disunity and infighting.

If only One God was meant to be followed. We'd all know how.

Edit: This is not Unity.

 

[osgart]

With God I expect no less than perfection with solid proof and evidence. God would have to have limits such as logical impossibilities. I see evidence can be abstract causes and effects of the spiritual, or tangible physical evidence.

My faith is in a perfect spiritual truth for the living that can be no accident nor coincidence. Existence has more things than truth in it though. Existence is a vast void, with no real suitable home for life. Life is very much a minor player in the vastness of existence. We appear to be both arbitrary and intended in our existence.

Truth is a guide toward self preservation and fulfillment. Going against virtue is a lethal road.

For my grappling with God as an atheist, I can only imagine God to be purely naturalistic, with need of self defense, and having many limitations of scope and power in existence. I don't see any reason why there could not be other gods if there is such a God. I don't experience any such gods though.

Omniscience and authority to intervene with the affairs of humanity is part of my definition of God. It's very difficult to reconcile that existence of God with the actuality of our reality.

I've also considered that our existence is not the only existence there is.

So my question is what actions and realizations are required to know God; that God exists, and actually cares? Are there logical steps, experiencial revelations?

Problem of evil, absence of presence, natural disaster, and the indifferent and violent nature of our reality are the honest obstacles to God.

 

[The Hammer]

History also shows that there is a Gate to that Gate with a crier, calling us to a path that leads to the narrow gate. Maybe the path we then need to walk, becomes that Message.

There are no Gates one needs to pass through. A gate implies it can be closed and sealed, and only some know how to open it via a key.

But the Truth are signs that anyone can see and they point the way, but don't hinder ones progress if ignored/avoided. We just see new signs later. Like traveling down a freeway, even if one misses the exit, there is another down the road.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think the plural is the cause of division. If it were the case, there wouldn't be 47 (random spitball number) different denominations and interpretations of the so called "One" God of the Abrahamics (Baha'i, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim for instance), changing the ways in which It is supposed to be worshipped and followed; creating disunity and infighting.

If only One God was meant to be followed. We'd all know how.

Edit: This is not Unity.
View attachment 61475

I see it as a refractive light as through a prisom of the human mind.

I think our purpose is to blend those colours back into the white light, within each of us.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are no Gates one needs to pass through. A gate implies it can be closed and sealed, and only some know how to open it via a key.

But the Truth are signs that anyone can see and they point the way, but don't hinder ones progress if ignored/avoided. We just see new signs later. Like traveling down a freeway, even if one misses the exit, there is another down the road.

I see this world does have gates. Maybe they are a product of our own mind?

Yet it also may be, that our mind can go right pass them as well.

Regards Tony

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Because the point was never to follow the path of a prophet, messenger or manifestation of the Gods. Their path is theirs to walk alone. The point was for you to listen to them, take heed, and forge your own path without them. It's a relay race, not a convoy.

YES!

I want to be inspired by Monet, not copy him. I want to learn from Christ, not shadow him.

 

[The Hammer]

I see it as a refractive light as through a prisom of the human mind.

I think our purpose is to blend those colours back into the white light, within each of us.

Regards Tony

The Rainbow gives the world form and meaning. All colors will blend to white in The End.

Edit: added meaning

 

[TransmutingSoul]

YES!

I want to be inspired by Monet, not copy him. I want to learn from Christ, not shadow him.

What about picking up a cross and following Christ. How would you see that requirement?

Regards Tony

 

[The Hammer]

What about picking up a cross and following Christ. How would you see that requirement?

Regards Tony

The point isn't to follow. But take the Message and Run.

Edit: if you are carrying Christ's cross, what was the point of his Death and Res?

Edit 2: What IS...

As I mention here. Lead.
Do not Follow.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The point isn't to follow. But take the Message and Run.

That is an Interesting view, let me say.

I personally do not see that is how the story of what Jesus did played out. He picked up the cross, was nailed to it. I consider that was not flight, but fighting for what was Truth.

Regards Tony

 

[The Hammer]

I personally do not see that is how the story of what Jesus did played out. He picked up the cross, was nailed to it. I consider that was not flight, but fighting for what was Truth.

Did he not live, walk and run His message?

Then you can do the same. For Him it ended in death and Crucifixion. Who knows where leading will take you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The point isn't to follow. But take the Message and Run.

Edit: if you are carrying Christ's cross, what was the point of his Death and Res?

Edit 2: What IS...

As I mention here. Lead.
Do not Follow.

That is an interesting view of faith, as personally, I have no desire to Lead, but only to submit and follow.

From what I understand of the Message of Jesus, it is submission to God, by following the examples of Virtues and Morality offered in the Word, that Jesus gave from God.

Regards Tony