In the Beginning, why just a few, can we learn from the past?

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony, I wish you were right. But the calamity of the 'War to end all wars' saw a decline in church attendance afterwards.
Same again with WW2 and the Vietnam War. Think this is touched upon in Revelations - the greater the calamity the
harder people became.

I see we have been warned about 3 wars. That warning is also contained in a Message that I see is God given.

I see God's time plays out over decades and centuries, thus prophecy is not necessarily seen by one generation, it unfolds over many generations.

In the time of Moses, Christ and Muhammad, no one could envisaged the extent those Faiths would influence and direct humanity.

The war that will end all wars may have started, it may not have, but a 3rd conflict that finally brings humanity together to build a global undertaking to disarm is yet to happen, a lot of destruction yet to unfold.

Yet we are all given a chance, God has already warned us. What else can be offered?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Truth is always a revelation.

The path is narrow because error is so abundant.

Why do we then choose not to look for the Revelations?

When a Revelation is given that has definitly given the solution, why is it humanity still content to continue to destroy itself?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Unfortuneately, we can't assert that everything in the bible is true, because, quite frankly, it isn't. For example:

Gen 1:25: Man created before animals..

Gen 2:18: Man created after animals

Many kings and popes have intentionally rewritten parts of the bible.

Though we can't trust the entire bible, we can trust the bulk of it.

Personally I would not see these verses as conflicting, I would be looking at a different meaning and context.

Also I see this in a different light, as I have other answers available, given in another Message, I see is from God.

There is 2 aspects of humanity. It's animal side and its spiritual side. Thus in reading the Bible, personally I would be looking at what aspect of humanity is being discussed.

A human body is combined from the vegetable and animal kingdoms, but contains the elements of the human condition, which has the ability to embrace the Kingdom of the Messenger, the kingdom that is of Christ.

When humanity stops learning war and hatred, the best of our humanity can be explored.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Believers - All those who have repented, trust in Jesus Christ that He died, was Buried, Rose from the dead for the remission of sins and have been born again by receiving this gift of eternal life become part of the body of Christ. There is no division here or shouldn’t be. He is the head we are His body. The Scriptures are our book, The Word of God, we are led by and walk in the Spirit, this is where we are One with each other because God isn’t divided.

That is worth discussion. It ties into the OP as this is a statement of finality, that faith stopped with a specific Message from God, when the Covenant of God is that God will always guide us.

I offer that Christ said I have many sheep not of this (Christain) fold and there will be a day when all those sheep (Hindu, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Baha'i) will become one fold under One Shepherd, our one and only God.

As this is not a debate, we can discuss, or agree to disagree.

Regards Tony

 

[Kenny]

This discussion is about God, it is about how we have come to know God via Prophets, or Messengers, or Manifestations of God.

Why is it that time shows us who were most likely a God given Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God, yet when the Message is first given there a only few that embrace that Message?

How do we tell when the path given by a Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God has been so divided, that the way to the narrow gate is so much harder to navigate?

This topic raises many tangents. Happy to discuss them all, as it may very well be, that no Faith is exempt from dividing the path to God.

Regards Tony

Part of the problem, IMV, is that we tend to be creatures of habit. When God moves in a special way, we tend to stay in that move, create the school of the prophets, package what God did and then think that God is stuck in that time not realizing that God is always doing a new thing.

Another part of the problem, IMV, there are those who called themselves prophets and weren't prophets and we never followed the line of "test the spirit to see if it is of God".

Certainly if it violates a specific truth, we should not start a "new religion" thinking it is of God.

Time usually reveals all IMV

 

[Colt]

Why do we then choose not to look for the Revelations?

When a Revelation is given that has definitly given the solution, why is it humanity still content to continue to destroy itself?

Regards Tony

For me I believed in God, in spiritual truth but ignored it like the Prodigal Son. It wasn’t until I became dissatisfied with myself and worldliness that I wanted to seek revelation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Part of the problem, IMV, is that we tend to be creatures of habit. When God moves in a special way, we tend to stay in that move, create the school of the prophets, package what God did and then think that God is stuck in that time not realizing that God is always doing a new thing.

Another part of the problem, IMV, there are those who called themselves prophets and weren't prophets and we never followed the line of "test the spirit to see if it is of God".

Certainly if it violates a specific truth, we should not start a "new religion" thinking it is of God.

Time usually reveals all IMV

Thank you Ken. I would agree with your summary.

Personally I see God guides us in what is a false message and I see no person can give a Message from God, unless it is God given.

Thus all false Messages will need to piggy back off a God given Message.

No God given Message will change the basic Virtues and Morals taught by all God given Faiths, though some practices and laws can change, suited to the age.

Man can alter the intent and direction of those set virtues and morality, but a new Message will confirm what we should not have altered.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

For me I believed in God, in spiritual truth but ignored it like the Prodigal Son. It wasn’t until I became dissatisfied with myself and worldliness that I wanted to seek revelation.

I feel you there, it is very easy to ignore, it never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to turn away from a set path.

That is life, we must keep trying to build a world that gives a fair and just life for all humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[ElishaElijah]

That is worth discussion. It ties into the OP as this is a statement of finality, that faith stopped with a specific Message from God, when the Covenant of God is that God will always guide us.

I offer that Christ said I have many sheep not of this (Christain) fold and there will be a day when all those sheep (Hindu, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Baha'i) will become one fold under One Shepherd, our one and only God.

As this is not a debate, we can discuss, or agree to disagree.

Regards Tony

Yeah I see things differently on that because Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel and the other sheep I see as the Gentile believers where He made both One, breaking down the middle wall of separation at the Cross, Ephesians 2.
Thanks for the OP

 

[URAVIP2ME]

............... Why is it that time shows us who were most likely a God given Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God, yet when the Message is first given there a only few that embrace that Message?
How do we tell when the path given by a Prophet, or Messenger, or Manifestation of God has been so divided, that the way to the narrow gate is so much harder to navigate?
This topic raises many tangents. Happy to discuss them all, as it may very well be, that no Faith is exempt from dividing the path to God. Regards Tony

When you said 'first' only few embrace that message, that made me think what 'first' started with Eve in Eden.
Although it is not written out we can discern that Eve was thinking 'first' about her self, her selfishness.
Instead of having love for God or for her husband Eve chose the opposite of love which is to be: selfish.
Instead of being or wanting to be self sacrificing Eve put herself 'first'.
Thus, a selfish attitude makes the narrow gate/path so much harder for people to navigate.
Selfish decisions goes against having self-sacrificing love for God and neighbor.
To embrace the narrow path/gate one must be grateful for one's blessings to expand love for God and neighbor.
'Only a few ' then would make good decisions because good decisions are not by accident.
Good un-selfish decisions would need to capture the mind of Christ, capture Jesus' thinking as recorded in Scripture.

 

[PruePhillip]

I see we have been warned about 3 wars. That warning is also contained in a Message that I see is God given.

I see God's time plays out over decades and centuries, thus prophecy is not necessarily seen by one generation, it unfolds over many generations.

In the time of Moses, Christ and Muhammad, no one could envisaged the extent those Faiths would influence and direct humanity.

The war that will end all wars may have started, it may not have, but a 3rd conflict that finally brings humanity together to build a global undertaking to disarm is yet to happen, a lot of destruction yet to unfold.

Yet we are all given a chance, God has already warned us. What else can be offered?

Regards Tony

Yeah Tony, some elements I am fine with. Just one point - I wouldn't put Mohammed with Moses and Jesus. He was an Islamic warlord.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah Tony, some elements I am fine with. Just one point - I wouldn't put Mohammed with Moses and Jesus. He was an Islamic warlord.

I personally see that is one of the big things we must investigate for ourselves PruePhillip.

The world has not seen peace since the Message of Jesus the Christ, the history of Christianity is also bathed in conflicts.

Thus when God came to unite the savage Arabian tribes, a way to achieve this was needed.

Thus when we read that Message, it shows us how to find peace without war, but does allow for defence of belief, just as Christians were already doing for their own selves.

How we got so far off the tracks is a lesson we can learn from history, we can consider that God looks after all of humanity and all Faiths.

Regards Tony

 

[PruePhillip]

I personally see that is one of the big things we must investigate for ourselves PruePhillip.

The world has not seen peace since the Message of Jesus the Christ, the history of Christianity is also bathed in conflicts.

Thus when God came to unite the savage Arabian tribes, a way to achieve this was needed.

Thus when we read that Message, it shows us how to find peace without war, but does allow for defence of belief, just as Christians were already doing for their own selves.

How we got so far off the tracks is a lesson we can learn from history, we can consider that God looks after all of humanity and all Faiths.

Regards Tony

Why would God want to unite savage tribes? That's not the message of the Gospel.
And why would God have one message in Jesus and a contrary one in Mohammed?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....................Thus when we read that Message, it shows us how to find peace without war, but does allow for defence of belief, just as Christians were already doing for their own selves.
How we got so far off the tracks is a lesson we can learn from history, we can consider that God looks after all of humanity and all Faiths. Regards Tony

As king Solomon observed that MAN has dominated MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9
That dominating by man will be stopped by God for it is God who will end wars forever - Psalms 46:9
MAN's history has now proven that MAN can't direct his step, so God will have Jesus step in.
The 'sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth' will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
Only humble meek people will inherit the Earth just as Jesus promised from Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why would God want to unite savage tribes? That's not the message of the Gospel.......

Surely, Not as in remaining savage or war like, but united as to lay down the 'sword' - Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3-4

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Only humble meek people will inherit the Earth just as Jesus promised from Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5

That ties back into the OP, so we could ask why have only a few seen this option is available and have chosen this path?

That is, If the Message of Baha’u’llah is showing us the way we have that choice to inherit what God has offered as the solution.

Regards Tony

 

[osgart]

Does this tie into universal salvation for all vs. an exclusive salvation only meant for specific beliefs of true believers?

It should be no surprise that only few enter into salvation in Christian terms. If I were to take the sum total of all scriptures in the world would I still arrive at few, or many, or even all?

My faith is in the sanctity of life, and what must be true for that life to be eternally fulfilling and worthy of living. At this time it seems human nature is growing rapidly into exploring their animal nature. The spiritual nature isn't even on the map, and constantly draws vehement opposition.

If universal salvation is correct then it seems that very many people will have to live a very long time in their own self inflicted hells that they make for themselves before they ever see the light of peace, honor, dignity, compassion, and love. Actions reap consequences, and people who love error must bear those consequences to the fullest if they are ever to see the light.

I don't believe every faith is the same though.

 

[Truthseeker]

Sometimes it happens quickly as in the case of Islam's great schism.

That schism happened more slowly than most people realize. Just Ali and a few around him felt that Ali was overlooked in the succession. The break was most definite when Ali's second son Husayn was martyred. And only then did it take a religious character to it. Before then most people considered it a political dispute.

 

[Truthseeker]

I don't think the plural is the cause of division. If it were the case, there wouldn't be 47 (random spitball number) different denominations and interpretations of the so called "One" God of the Abrahamics (Baha'i, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim for instance), changing the ways in which It is supposed to be worshipped and followed; creating disunity and infighting.

If only One God was meant to be followed. We'd all know how.

Edit: This is not Unity.
View attachment 61475

My background is not a major branch of Christianity, at least today. Quaker, or Society of Friends. It's significance has dwindled over time, but it's a heritage to be proud of. Early anti-slavers, pacifists, sees some truth in all religions. In Sunday school, I remember a session on the life of Muhammad, and not in a negative way, and also the truths of Buddhism.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

New Does this tie into universal salvation for all vs. an exclusive salvation only meant for specific beliefs of true believers?

I personally see the subject of salvation is universal, I see it always has been, but our capacity was not ready to embrace a universal salvation. I see Jesus showed us that we were responsible for our salvation by our choices in Faith. I see Muhammad showed that personal salvation could then be extended to our unity as a Nation and that Baha'u'llah has shown that can be extended to all humanity.

Thus I personally see, that a personal salvation is not the aim in this age, that personal salvation only unfolds upon our actions towards being unified with the whole.

There is a lot to consider on this topic though, so I have no set position.

Regards Tony