If you're liberal, I believe your faith is in doubt

[Woberts]

You do realize that I was joking right?

I know. I just wanted to write
Consider the following:

 

[Revoltingest]

Ah, the dilemma of the modern Libertarian Republican: am I a liberal or a conservative? I just can't make up my mind...

Your post reminds me of some fundies who criticize us (agnostics / weak atheists) for not taking
a stand on denying or believing in God. But this is not mere indecision. That fence you think we
should get down from is indeed our stand. One needn't be purely modern liberal or conservative.
Ours is a fundamentally different orientation which means having values & positions spanning
& spilling over the limited limited left-v-right political spectrum of political fundamentalists.

Alas, it seems that for many of my more leftish brethren & sistern, these differences are too stealthy
to recognize. Oddly though, tis the conservatives who tend to be more cognizant & tolerant of our
differences.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

@Revoltingest I was being a bit tongue in cheek

I don't think Libertarian Republicans are on a fence per se. I do think they're employing a rather odd maneuver in trying to relegate the word liberal to themselves, when they set up conflict between modern and classical.

Especially odd when at other times they throw liberal around like a nasty word- or accuse liberals of inferiority to conservatives in matters like tolerance.

What is it Libertarian Republicans are trying to do exactly by setting up an opposition between modern and classical liberals, while they play the field as conservatives?

 

[Revoltingest]

@Revoltingest I was being a bit tongue in cheek

I don't think Libertarian Republicans are on a fence per se. I do think they're employing a rather odd maneuver in trying to relegate the word liberal to themselves, when they set up this dilemma of modern and classical. Especially odd when at other times they throw liberal around like a nasty word, or accuse liberals of inferiority to conservatives in matters like tolerance.

What is it Libertarian Republicans are trying to say exactly by setting up an opposition between modern and classical liberals, while they play the field as conservatives?

It's neither a maneuver nor a dilemma.
We've been thru this so many times before....your application
of labels seems more about setting people up for criticism than
understanding what we or others believe. Perhaps if you have
a specific issue to discuss, that would be more interesting.

 

[David1967]

@Revoltingest I was being a bit tongue in cheek

I don't think Libertarian Republicans are on a fence per se. I do think they're employing a rather odd maneuver in trying to relegate the word liberal to themselves, when they set up conflict between modern and classical.

Especially odd when at other times they throw liberal around like a nasty word- or accuse liberals of inferiority to conservatives in matters like tolerance.

What is it Libertarian Republicans are trying to do exactly by setting up an opposition between modern and classical liberals, while they play the field as conservatives?

With all due respect, I think you are oversimplifying this. Whether I am "liberal", "conservative", "moderate", or simply have no opinion, depends on the subject matter. For example, I am fiscally very conservative, yet environmentally , I would have more liberal leanings.

 

[Revoltingest]

With all due respect, I think you are oversimplifying this. Whether I am "liberal", "conservative", "moderate", or simply have no opinion, depends on the subject matter. For example, I am fiscally very conservative, yet environmentally , I would have more liberal leanings.

Both are consistent for libertarians in that minimizing infringement upon the rights of others is the goal.
I should avoid taking your tax money, & avoid polluting your air, ground & water.

 

[David1967]

Both are consistent for libertarians in that infringement upon the rights of others is the goal.
I should avoid taking your tax money, & avoid polluting your air, ground & water.

Sounds like common sense to me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sounds like common sense to me.

It makes even more sense after I added the missing "minimizing".
Curse my errant brain!

 

[David1967]

errant brain

I've got one of those.

 

[Shadow Link]

For being "mostly emotionally based', their views tend to be significantly more rational and substantiated. Interesting, no?

Not in my experience. Maybe they are significantly more rational and substantiated over your views though.

 

[Shadow Link]

Ah, the dilemma of the modern Libertarian Republican: am I a liberal or a conservative? I just can't make up my mind...

Just do more research. I think you'll find it.

 

[Father Heathen]

Not in my experience. Maybe they are significantly more rational and substantiated over your views though.

Scientific literacy, for one.

 

[Shadow Link]

Scientific literacy, for one.

Well I can't help you there. Just ask them to help you, I'm sure if you represent yourself in a humble manner they will help you.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

your application
of labels seems more about setting people up for criticism than
understanding what we or others believe

My application of labels is about accuracy. What am I to understand exactly? Maybe you can enlighten me.

It honestly appears to me that Libertarians are being really semantic with the concept liberal.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Sounds like common sense to me.

Well in actual practice, premise one might be carried out. Premise two requires regulation of businesses, which Libertarians tend to be against.

 

[Revoltingest]

My application of labels is about accuracy. What am I to understand exactly? Maybe you can enlighten me.
It honestly appears to me that Libertarians are being really semantic with the concept liberal.

Specifics.
Which Libertarian is saying what?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Specifics.
Which Libertarian is saying what?

Whenever Libertarians tend to set up classical liberal in opposition to modern liberal, as you yourself have done in other threads- they are discounting the progression of ideologies over time. Furthermore, they're presenting what I think is a flawed premise from the get go. That classical liberal is more in line with conservative. The conservative movement came about as an opponent to liberalism after the Age of Enlightenment.

Therefore, it requires some explaining 'on the part of Libertarians', why they think classical liberal is more in line with their ideology. Also, do they think we can simply toss out the fact that the modern liberal movement has continuity with what you term 'classical liberalism'?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Which Libertarian is saying what?

I am going through threads at present to find previous conversations of ours, where you've claimed Libertarianism is essentially Classical Liberalism. However, I found this post of yours in a thread in the meantime: Classical Liberalism and Libertarianism: is there a difference?

I suppose I've answered your question?

 

[Revoltingest]

Whenever Libertarians tend to set up classical liberal in opposition to modern liberal, as you yourself have done in other threads- they are discounting the progression of ideologies over time. Furthermore, they're presenting what I think is a flawed premise from the get go. That classical liberal is more in line with conservative. The conservative movement came about as an opponent to liberalism after the Age of Enlightenment.

Therefore, it requires some explaining 'on the part of Libertarians', why they think classical liberal is more in line with their ideology. Also, do they think we can simply toss out the fact that the modern liberal movement has continuity with what you term 'classical liberalism'?

RF defines "classical liberal" as conservative.
I disagree with this, because classical liberalism is not religious, nor into military adventurism.
Modern liberalism differs by favoring big interventionist government, including some heavy
handed social regulation.
Ref...
Classical liberalism - Wikipedia

Classical liberalism is a political ideology and a branch of liberalism which advocates civil liberties under the rule of law with an emphasis on economic freedom. Closely related to economic liberalism, it developed in the early 19th century, building on ideas from the previous century as a response to urbanization and to the Industrial Revolution in Europe and the United States.[1][2][3] Notable individuals whose ideas contributed to classical liberalism include John Locke,[4] Jean-Baptiste Say, Thomas Malthus and David Ricardo. It drew on the economic ideas espoused by Adam Smith in Book 1 of the Wealth of Nations and on a belief in natural law,[5]utilitarianism[6] and progress.[7] The term "classical liberalism" was applied in retrospect to distinguish earlier 19th-century liberalism from the newer social liberalism.[8]

Looking at the above link, it's pretty similar to the Libertarian Party platform.
We add an increased element of social liberty.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well I can't help you there. Just ask them to help you, I'm sure if you represent yourself in a humble manner they will help you.

What on earth are you babbling about?

Perhaps you should work on your poorly structured, barely coherent posts.