If you believe in God, why do you sin?

[Quintessence]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that someone being inundated with constant reminders of something to be conscious of that something as long as he's being reminded of it.

If you don't think that believers are being inundated with constant reminders of God, fair enough, but then you're not the sort of believer I was describing.

Well, we're probably just going to have to agree to disagree. My gods are literally all of reality itself, and I can tell you that my mind definitely does not constantly think about how all of reality is divine at every waking moment. Animal thought and attention just don't work that way, matter of fact.

Look at this way: you're constantly surrounded by air, and thus constantly being inundated with reminders of its existence. How often do you pay attention to the air? How much do you pay attention to the fact that you're breathing? That you're moving through air? That wind is blowing? Probably very rarely. Just because something is universally present and in theory should be "reminding" you that it exists, doesn't mean that your animal brain is going to focus is attention on it. Like I said, human consciousness and awareness is telescopic. I find the expectation that anyone should always be thinking about anything - and I don't care what it is or if there are "reminders" or not - completely unreasonable given how our brains work.

 

[Ingledsva]

It doesn't. You falsely assume that the believer somehow STRIVES to sin in front of God and/or places the value of action in front of peers to be of greater importance.

I don't hold this opinion.

I don't know if you and I subscribe to the same defnitions of sin. It it would be unfair for either of us to project out understandings upon anyone else as fact.

I'm of the opinion, that I'm incapable of imperfection. Perhaps you hold another understanding. More power to you.

I suggest you go back and reread what I said - as I said no such thing.

Nor, obviously, was it about YOU, - but religious people in general.

And you folks still skirt the issue.


You have the willpower to NOT do the sin - as evidenced by not doing it in front of people you want to respect you.

Thus at all other times that you commit those sins - you are CHOOSING to sin - and that sin being before the God you claim to worship.


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[dawny0826]

I suggest you go back and reread what I said - as I said no such thing.

This is the impression that you gave. I'm sorry if I misread you.

Nor, obviously, was it about YOU, - but religious people in general.

The religious people that I know strive to be as sinless as possible. Therefore, it's moot as to whether or not they sin in front of God or in front of others. They believe that they are accountable for their actions in any setting.

And you folks still skirt the issue.

You have the willpower to NOT do the sin - as evidenced by not doing it in front of people you want to respect you.

Us folks? Do you view all religious people to be of the same mindset? To have the same understandings of God, let alone of sin?

As I've already stated, I don't hold the mindset that my view on sin should differ when alone or in the presence of others.

I acknoweldge my willpower not to sin, but, I am also honest and acknowledge that I do succumb to sin at times - alone and in the presence of others. My feelings about my behavior is no different.

Thus

at all other times that you commit those sins - you are CHOOSING to sin - and that sin being before the God you claim to worship.

At anytime I sin, I've made a choice to sin. At anytime I sin, I've sinned before God. As a Christian, I have a repenting spirit. Wrong is wrong - wherever in front of whomever. BECAUSE I worship, BECAUSE I believe and BECAUSE I want to be a good person, I repent when I sin, I strive to avoid sinful behavior.

I can't answer for anyone else.

 

[Thana]

Obviously, I'm talking about a viewpoint that I don't agree with here, so it's difficult for me to defend. But I have been told by some believers that atheists actually believe in God but just pretend that he doesn't exist.

So I take it that you disagree with the claim that unbelievers are "without excuse", right?

Ah, Seems to me that all your 'knowledge' is second hand. I personally wouldn't ever bring that to a debate, but I digress..

I don't think atheists believe in God but just pretend He doesn't exist.. That is.. silly.

No, I agree. Unbelievers are without excuse. I may call the other God, And some call Him by different names but atheists are the only ones who don't believe in other. There is no excuse for that.

That's not a fair analogy:

- while I think that abiogenesis is the best explanation we have for life, I don't think that everything I see "testifies" to the truth of abiogenesis.

- I might not be thinking about abiogenesis every waking minute of the day, but I never accidentally slip into creationism when I lose my concentration.

If I was surrounded by nothing but posters that said "hooray for abiogenesis!" then yes, it would probably be hard for me not to think about abiogenesis.

It is a fair analogy, Because it's exactly what you said to me.
Read Quint's posts if you're still confused.

 

[Ingledsva]

This is the impression that you gave. I'm sorry if I misread you.

Nor, obviously, was it about YOU, - but religious people in general.

The religious people that I know strive to be as sinless as possible. Therefore, it's moot as to whether or not they sin in front of God or in front of others. They believe that they are accountable for their actions in any setting.

ING - Then why do they sin? We are obviously talking any religion that has a sin list. Why commit the sins on your religion's list - when you know they have consequence?

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And you folks still skirt the issue.

You have the willpower to NOT do the sin - as evidenced by not doing it in front of people you want to respect you.

Us folks? Do you view all religious people to be of the same mindset? To have the same understandings of God, let alone of sin?

ING - See above. Any religion with a sin list.

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As I've already stated, I don't hold the mindset that my view on sin should differ when alone or in the presence of others.

ING - However, it actually does differ if one does not sin in front of certain people, but does sin in front of their God.

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THUS - at all other times that you commit those sins - you are CHOOSING to sin - and that sin being before the God you claim to worship.

I acknoweldge my willpower not to sin, but, I am also honest and acknowledge that I do succumb to sin at times - alone and in the presence of others. My feelings about my behavior is no different.



At anytime I sin, I've made a choice to sin. At anytime I sin, I've sinned before God. As a Christian, I have a repenting spirit. Wrong is wrong - wherever in front of whomever. BECAUSE I worship, BECAUSE I believe and BECAUSE I want to be a good person, I repent when I sin, I strive to avoid sinful behavior.

I can't answer for anyone else.

I have to say I honestly don't understand this concept. I am not religious - and I consciously choose to not do wrong - no matter where I am, or whom I'm with, or alone. No taking extra when people aren't looking, no cheating on income taxes, etc.

That is a conscious choice of will.


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[Call_of_the_Wild]

So this video showed up in my Facebook feed today:

[youtube]iJXxmwLj2Os[/youtube]
TESTING for Faith in God (Proof you do NOT believe) - YouTube

I have some issues with it, both in terms of its tone and its conclusion (because of compartmentalization, I disagree with their inherent assumption that a person's belief system is consistent with itself), but I think it raises an interesting question:

If you really do believe in God, why do you sin?

As the video points out, many (most?) people won't commit "shameful" acts in the presence of loved ones when the loved ones are aware of what's going on. In many cases, they'll be physically incapable of doing it because of a reflexive reaction to the idea. However, these same people often don't feel the same reflexive reaction about committing the same act in front of God.

The example given was masturbation: people who claim to believe in an all-seeing or omnipresent God - and claim to believe that this God disapproves of masturbation - would never think of masturbating in front of their parents or even strangers, but they will still masturbate "in front of God" when they're by themselves.

So... why is this? Why will people who claim to put God first often hold themselves to a higher standard when they're around other people than they will when they're only in the presence of God?

Peter denied Christ three times, lying about even knowing the man...and he was still one of Jesus' right hand men. Believing in God doesn't mean you will never sin again...if you think/thought that, then you are sadly mistaken.

 

[viole]

I don't think atheists believe in God but just pretend He doesn't exist.. That is.. silly.

I don't think Christians believe in Zeus but just pretend that He doesn't exist. That is ... Silly.

Ciao

- viole

 

[ChristineES]

There are a lot of discussions going on here: 1. Why do we sin "in front" of God, 2. Is masturbation a sin?, 3. Even if someone doesn't believe it isn't a sin, why do it in front of God?
I have to add something: There are about 6 billion people on the earth. Why on earth would I think that God, being all-powerful in my belief, would even care about the things I do, if they are not a sin. I also don't sin deliberately. If I sin, I repent of it right away. I think the same is of most people; most people don't do wrong things deliberately, or if they do, they don't believe it is truly wrong (For example, marijuana is illegal in California, but people smoke it anyway, because they believe there is nothing wrong with doing so and it being illegal is wrong).

I don't think Christians or any other religion just want to sit around with their hands folded all the time because they are afraid they might sin.

 

[ametist]

I just dont get the point of the video and dont see how it can be disturbing to anyone who believes in god.

I might sin because it is part of my growth. Sin is doing things that hurt myself (my term of 'myself' includes others most of the time) now or in the long run. Sin is sin because god wants me to get out of them the easiest way. I can most of the time sense things that hurt myself and others. for those that I cant sense there enough sources from various religions. For example, although I dont know the exact reason I dont eat port because muslim scriptures strictly says it is bad. Just to be cautious.
We hurt ourselves(sin) in this reality unavoidably because of the existence of death. If there were no such self hurting(sin) coming from anyone we would live forever in our physical forms like one single person. Perhaps we do so in some plane of existence but for now, I dont even feel like asking for forgiveness when I think I sinned, it is just really fine and beautiful god created it this way.But when I ask for forgiveness when I get angry or something, it really feels good, it is like sky climbing at times . An all loving god of course had a lot to invest in forgiving aspect

 

[dawny0826]

Why do they sin? Why commit the sins on your religion's list - when you know they have consequences?

Personally, I don't purposefully sin. I strive to avoid it. The believer is no less capable of posessing a myriad of human flaws, which they have to contend with in their spiritual walk. The Christian should be taking ownership of their flaws and working with God to overcome them. In my faith, this doesn't translate to becoming perfect. We STRIVE to be Christ-like.

One would have to look into the individual mind of every individual who sins, to understand how one could justify a sinful action and this assumes that one CAN justify an action. People don't always understand their actions and are broken by them.

Replace "sin" with "crime". Why do people, religious or otherwise, commit crime, knowing that there could be negative consequences?

I don't have an answer. I've offered that I believe imperfection to be a part of the human condition. And it's choice as to how we deal with it.

I also offer that it's impossible for people to get it right ALL the time. That which is deemed perfection from one perspective may be horribly flawed in another. God never told the believer that He expects perfection. He expects the best that you can give and continual communal with Him, through praise, worship, repententance for wrong doing and an external display of Christ's love, through actions.

I have to say I honestly don't understand this concept. I am not religious - and I consciously choose to not do wrong - no matter where I am, or whom I'm with, or alone. No taking extra when people aren't looking, no cheating on income taxes, etc.

That is a conscious choice of will.*

I believe in God and I too consciously choose to not do wrong. I suppose you've never succumbed to a temptation before. If you have, I don't understand why you couldn't understand how another person could succumb to a temptation no matter how wrong or hypocritical such action may be perceived.

Cheating on income taxes, taking extra, lying, etc. aren't problems exclusive to "us folk".

 

[Reverend Rick]

This is the biggest problem with religion today. People have this impression that they have to lead perfect lives.

All men are sinners, everyone falls short. Our best acts are nothing but filthy rags before him.

I believe all that is required is to repent and make an effort to do better.

Christians are not perfect, {as most of you might have noticed} we are just forgiven.

Disclaimer: your mileage may vary under no circumstance should this post be taken as an attempt to change your mind.

My religion is all about forgiveness not perfection.

 

[Sabour]

This is why we worship God and pray for Him to help us.

This is essential for us to stay away from sinning.

 

[Ingledsva]

I have to say I honestly don't understand this concept. I am not religious - and I consciously choose to not do wrong - no matter where I am, or whom I'm with, or alone. No taking extra when people aren't looking, no cheating on income taxes, etc.

That is a conscious choice of will.

...

I believe in God and I too consciously choose to not do wrong. I suppose you've never succumbed to a temptation before. If you have, I don't understand why you couldn't understand how another person could succumb to a temptation no matter how wrong or hypocritical such action may be perceived.

Cheating on income taxes, taking extra, lying, etc. aren't problems exclusive to "us folk".

Once I was old enough to understand, - and made the conscious choice - NO!


There is no reason to break the law, cheat, lie, etc. (Unless perhaps you are in a life threatening situation.)


I don't smoke or drink either, because I saw first hand, the consequences of addiction. I chose not to.


And - again - I didn't say they were exclusive to religious people. I used those because they are often used as examples of "little lies/sins/fudging" that most people do.


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[dawny0826]

Once I was old enough to understand, - and made the conscious choice - NO!


There is no reason to break the law, cheat, lie, etc. (Unless perhaps you are in a life threatening situation.)


I don't smoke or drink either, because I saw first hand, the consequences of addiction. I chose not to.


And - again - I didn't say they were exclusive to religious people. I used those because they are often used as examples of "little lies/sins/fudging" that most people do.


*

Most Christians would agree that there isn't justification for breaking the law, cheating, lying, etc.

Masturbation, the example used in the video, in my opinion, wasn't the best example to use, when it's not culturally acceptable to masturbate in public or in the presence of one who isn't your lover. The gentleman in the video suggests that one isn't truly a believer if they succumb to sin in private, but wouldn't in front of others. This alone is a ridiculous notion to me as a Christian.

I would question my faith and belief, if I had no desire to repent of sinful action and/or didn't struggle at all with a wrong choice.

If a Christian subscribes to the notion that masturbating is sinful, I don't believe that doing so in private is a deliberate attempt to place the opinion of people above that of God. Masturbation is typically a private action.

It's not sneaky to masturbate in private as it would be to steal. One who sins through masturbation is hurting themselves, not others. As I've mentioned before, I suspect that those who consider it sin and succumb to it, would struggle with their choice to commit such sin.

 

[Ingledsva]

Most Christians would agree that there isn't justification for breaking the law, cheating, lying, etc.

Masturbation, the example used in the video, in my opinion, wasn't the best example to use, when it's not culturally acceptable to masturbate in public or in the presence of one who isn't your lover. The gentleman in the video suggests that one isn't truly a believer if they succumb to sin in private, but wouldn't in front of others. This alone is a ridiculous notion to me as a Christian.

I would question my faith and belief, if I had no desire to repent of sinful action and/or didn't struggle at all with a wrong choice.

If a Christian subscribes to the notion that masturbating is sinful, I don't believe that doing so in private is a deliberate attempt to place the opinion of people above that of God. Masturbation is typically a private action.

It's not sneaky to masturbate in private as it would be to steal. One who sins through masturbation is hurting themselves, not others. As I've mentioned before, I suspect that those who consider it sin and succumb to it, would struggle with their choice to commit such sin.

Masturbation was just an example he gave.


Christians don't have to worry about that one - as there is actually nothing against it in the Bible.


So go ahead and make yourselves happy, like the rest of us.



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[dawny0826]

Masturbation was just an example he gave.


Christians don't have to worry about that one - as there is actually nothing against it in the Bible.


So go ahead and make yourselves happy, like the rest of us.



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Ha!